BJDs in amongst the Walmart Generation

Here's the thing with that: there is never going to be a need for a doll, doll clothes, doll shoes, doll wigs, etc. in this way. (Repair supplies of some kind, maybe, but those aren't exactly high-ticket items and the price of a magic eraser doesn't vary terribly much no matter where it comes from. ) A doll is not, "Uh-oh, I need to pick up a pair of stockings fast for work because mine got a run and I'll get in trouble with my boss if I don't have them." A doll isn't, "Oh, no! I need to travel unexpectedly and need a suitcase that will fit my stuff fast, anything will have to do so long as I can afford the unplanned expense!"

A doll isn't an emergency need of any kind. A doll is a want, not a need. Confusing wants and needs is a pretty good way to get into some dire financial straits in the first place, so I'm not really buying this argument as it relates to the topic of BJDs and their goods. For a doll, you always have the luxury of saving up because it is a luxury item, it is not an entitlement or need. I really don't see how this is something difficult to understand; a luxury hobby item is very different from essentials like food or clothing.

Beyond that, the sock-dress sniffing or whatever... not seeing it in this thread unless I missed something pretty vital. In regard to foxdragon's examples: I'm just not seeing it, because the examples of 'elitism' are just... not that. They simply aren't. If you want to see people staring down their noses at you, you're going to find it whether it's there or not. Saying your experience conflicts with someone else's is not proof of elitism, it is simply a different experience -- and here's the kicker: yours isn't any more or less valid or real than theirs, no matter how much it conflicts. If things worked that way, I could whip out a pile of experiences that contradict the ones you list, and we'd be right back where we started.

As to the example of the $0.25 jeans, well, that's a great find! I once found a second-hand Oscar de la Renta evening gown for $8.50. The sad fact is, neither of us would have acquired these items for the prices we did if they were not second-hand, and holding new items to that sort of pricing standard would be absurdity incarnate. Second-hand bargains also exist all over the marketplace here in an identical manner if you look for them. Would you count on every pair of $0.25 jeans for sale being as good, sturdy, or reliable as the ones you found? Personally, I'd think that foolish, and not likely to be a common experience for the majority. A stroke of luck is not a rule to live by or something one should come to rely on for reliable goods, or at least it isn't something I'd be willing to count on when making purchasing decisions. I do know for certain that none of the other dresses priced at $8.50 I've seen before and after the one I mentioned were anywhere near on par with the one I actually bought and believe me when I say I've haunted that place looking for something like it ever since.

 

I realize that dolls are a luxury item. Just about every "everyday" item people have been comparing them to are luxury items. But what this thread is about is general perceptions of value in today's society, and I think using everyday items is valid, since it's everyday items that most people will be comparing BJDs to.

I'm not calling these people's examples elitism, I'm using the attitude with which they describe their experiences as elitism. It's when people are faced with the attitude of "cheaper is better" and respond with "no, cheaper is worse," instead of just, "cheaper is cheaper". Because that's basically saying our dolls are better than Barbies because they're more expensive, not the other way around (or rather, asking other people to think that way--to accept that they must be worth the price if it's how much they cost).

 

Not arguing that. You cannot, however, use the 'you may have an emergency need' argument for the unresearched or saved-for purchase of a luxury hobby item, however, and that's exactly how that argument was being used. It does not work, plain and simple. It works for shoes. It doesn't work for dolls.

Is 'cheaper is better' exempt from elitism? Because that attitude has certainly been espoused -- even by you, if we're back to defining cheap as 'less expensive' based on the BJDs vs. Barbies comparison -- with endless examples of how most costly products are a waste or have no value that makes them worth more than any other item that disparage the more costly products in the identical manner.

Here's the thing, though, and it's something that comes up on this forum so often that a lot of people tear their hair out over it: having a preference is not elitism. In either direction.

 

i don`t see any thing wrong with wanting to buy a cheaper doll, but if you buy a cheaper doll you shouldn`t than (like alot of people do) complain of the quality.You can`t expect the same thing that you expect from a 500-600$ doll from a 150-200$ doll...like it`s said , you get what you pay for.
Personaly ,I prefer to wait a bit more , and buy a better-quality doll , than just rush and buy a cheaper one , but that`s just me.

 

Edit: post deleted. This was getting way too off-topic and way too personal.

 

I believe price directly relates to quality most of the time. There are some exceptions, such as a company that has built up a good reputation and has started to ride on its' good name rather than producing quality goods yet still charging high prices. Another example is that a good quality item may be sold cheap because the person who made it is doing it for practice and praise (common among a lot of new artists and craftsmen) OR a company hires multiple unskilled workers to each work on one part of the item but doesn't pay them much (usually a sweatshop or similar).

I don't care what other people buy, what they like, how they save or spend their money, etc...If someone wants to buy 10 cheap shirts that will become deformed and shrink upward by 8 inches as soon as you wash them instead of buying 2 good quality shirts that will retain their shape, fit, and color for 10 years then by all means do it. I'll think it's an odd choice, but I'm not going to think the person is bad or somehow lesser. What I have a problem with is people getting used to these extremely low walmart prices and expecting good quality items made with good materials by a skilled craftsman to be lowered to the $2 walmart price. If I were to sell a human shirt that I made for the same price as walmart sells their cheap fabric, sweatshop made clothes, I'd be out around $15 in materials not to mention I would be getting absolutely nothing for my time and labor.

The walmart mentality to me means someone doesn't care about quality, they don't care about the conditions in which an item was made, and they think skilled labor is worth nothing. I see people with this attitude a lot in this forum (although there are a lot without it too) people asking in the sewing or critique forum "how much should I charge?" for a very well made outfit using high quality fabrics, containing multiple pieces, complex techniques, etc...and many of the replies are along the lines of "OMG that's awesome, I'd pay up to $25 for that ." Now these people aren't trying to be insulting, they actually think $25 or less is a fair price to pay for around 8+ hours of labor and $20-$40 in materials. This to me is the perfect example of walmart mentality "oh I can get a whole outfit for myself at walmart on clearance for $10, why should doll clothes be more expensive?" In a similar thread, people made statements like that and accused companies such as dollheart of "price gouging." Now dollheart makes outfits that contain something like:shirt, vest, coat, pants, accessory, and sometimes shoes and they charge around $100 for the whole outfit. That's extremely cheap for the amount of labor involved and for the number of pieces you're getting, yet it's "price gouging" because teddy bear clothes and friends 2b made clothes are like $1 per piece. It doesn't matter that teddybear/f2bm clothes don't fit well, are simple, made of shoddy matierals, are held shut with big blocks of velcro, etc...A super cheap option exists so every doll outfit has to be that cheap right?

 

While I know some people who seem completely unable to comprehend that a higher priced item will often (though not always) perform better or last longer, or that any factor could cause an item to be better than one that looks pretty much the same and has pretty much the same functions, I think most people who are shocked by BJDs are able to understand the value of quality, they just don't understand why someone would pay so much for a doll, an item which has no easily discernible purpose to the average person, where as while an expensive TV or car or clothes may be frivolous, at least people appreciate the functionality. Part of this is just that BJDs aren't main-stream currently, so people have limited experience with them.

My father is a craftsman. He understands the value of a hand-made item from high-quality materials; it's what he makes a living off of (or at least what he does when people can afford hand-woodturned lamps and newelcaps.) However, he would have a very difficult time understanding why I want to collect BJDs, because he would see it as spending a large amount of money for something that is effectively useless (in his eyes). At least lamps and newelcaps have a purpose, even if they are mostly aesthetic. While I (obviously) don't share this view, I understand where he and people like him are coming from.

 

the funny thing about all this is that some barbie's are gorgeous and are very expensive. but i face this everytime i tell people how much i pay for my dolls. i don't care though. i just say some people spend money on cars or clothes, but i spend my money on dolls. thats just the way i like it.

 

Just to say Barbie's aren't nessicarily cheap have you seen the price tags on some of the special editions?

The mentality dosen't bother me as much as I thought it would as I know I'm doing this as a hobby because it makes me happy and nertz to anyone else, if they don't want to take the time to understand me or the hobby that's okay as it's for my happiness not anybody elses.

 

Why pay $100K for a Mercedes when you can have a Yugo for $4,000 ?
While they are both cars there really is no comparison.

 

i just give them lengthy explanations about how they are made, strung, painted, etc. and that usually gets them to stop XDD

 

It really doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about the price. It's about what the doll means to you. Better to save for a dream doll and be completely happy with it than to have a less expensive doll because "it's too much to spend on a doll" and feel dissatisfied.

 

My dad even tells me things like "you have tons of dolls from when you where little! i'll give you 10 bucks so you can pimp one out! so why do you need this CAR doll *volks* or whatever?!" i dont think people get it. abjds are more than just barbies they have personality and so much quality! its not like spending a ridiculous amount of money on a desinger jacket, its almost like buying a freind (just a little less creepy) because if you dont want to spend $300 on a doll dont, go ask your dad for money to pimp out a barbie.

 

Make the comparison between a Ferrari and a Skateboard. Most men "get it" with that analogy.

 

My money, my dolls. So I get the final say and the only opinion that counts. Until I get married I won't listen to anyone else's opinion on this subject.

...I get tired of butthurt little girls who want their parents to buy them all their dolls and stuff who whine and cry about how "no one understands" and blah blah blah. And as for the rest of us. Why yes, it is kind of annoying when people criticize. But we should all grow thicker skins or learn not to tell people what the dolls cost.

 

Here's something to chew on (mentally)... Maybe this has been asked, but, would the dolls still have the same appeal, and the same sentimental value, if they were cheaper? Even at the same quality, if the $500 dolls were suddenly $50, wouldn't that make them more expendable? More OK to roughhouse? Oh, sure, you can touch the face-up, that head wasn't so expensive... I didn't have to save up that long for it... It would seem to me that the walmart mentality is oblivious to the value of these things. "just get a barbie" Pff. Even when I was little, I preferred porcelain dolls because of the quality difference. But I treated my porcelains much nicer because I knew they were more valuable (and fragile ) All of my barbies, save for one still in box, ended up ratty and nasty and trashed. Quality over quantity.

I can understand the sticker shock. I was shocked when I first ventured onto a BJD site. But after looking it all over, I can see how it's worth it. I don't have my own doll (yet), but I've seen other people's. They just look so much better than other dolls. Even my porcelains can't compare.

 

Maybe a Ferrari and a golf cart.
With a skateboard, that's kind of more like.. a BJD vs. a little green army guy. XD;

 

I agree with this. *Certain* things need to be earned (besides for neccessities such as clothes and food of course!). When I hear girls at my school complain and whine about not getting these new shoes/clothes or whatnot I silently seethe on the inside. I don't go and beg my parents for something new because I know that I will have to earn it somehow.

Anyways, back OT.

Like most people have stated, it's our money. We spend it on what we want (and need) to. If they have a problem with the price then they need to mind their own business. They don't have to be rude and in your face criticizing you. It's YOUR hobby, YOUR money, therefore, it's yours (unless the doll is a gift for someone, but you get my point.).

 

Whoooah, it's getting intense in here! Have a laugh.

 

LOL I love the picture!!! too cute!