BJDs in amongst the Walmart Generation

Well said. I, too, would rather save money by buying at places like Wal-Mart and use the money I saved for something I really want, like a new doll.

 

I think this has been an issue ever since dolls as art caught on in the last few decades. In my experience sometimes if you can show the work of a phenomenal artist (like Lisa Lichtenfels) then even the mundane people can see how much talent and work and craft is involved. It may not get through completely, but usually they then realize it is something more than a really expensive play doll. For BJD's I like to show Val Zeitler's magazine layouts, her face-ups and fashions bridge barriers and seem to draw people in. I think BJDs are a little harder for mundanes to accept because they don't understand the different sculpts and that resin is different and every doll is made by hand (mostly). They also don't get that after we receive this little piece of art we then get to make it our own, it becomes our creation whether it is a name and personality and new clothes or a full on face up and custom job. They don't understand that feeling of creation and art in something that can look back at you. I sometimes wish that I could get a bunch of (inexpensive) blank BJDolls and supplies and just bring them into the office or have a party with my friends and say something like, "Here, here is everything you need - you paint it, choose eyes and hair and name it". I wonder if that would get through to them and if they would start to see the value in their self expression/creation?

 

I'm a "Walmart Generation", and yeah my $10 jeans last just as long as the $50 ones. And I have even rode my horses in them, and saddles are notorious for being the Grim Reapers of jeans. Heck, I couldn't even get Wrangler jeans to last as long as my Faded Glory or Levis. Basically you are paying for the name, not the quality of the work. Plus, FG or Levis is $10-$15 cheaper at Wally-World compared to JCPennys...unless they are having a sale, and their sales rock. ^^

With dolls it's a different story since they are not just toys but works of art. Someone actually sits down and takes time to do the face-ups, blushing, etc... on these, so I can see why they have a more expensive price tag. But at the same time, my AODs are just as good of quality as my Feeple. Their posing are the same, but I've never adjusted the strings or sueded any of my dolls, so I guess that shouldn't even have been brought up. I think if you are going to buy a doll, look at the mold not the price tag. I love AODs but I also love Sooms. You just have to same up a bit longer for the Sooms. ;3

 

But they would still be super special to you wouldn't they? I mean it's probably pretty safe to say that most of the people of this site didn't get into BJDs so they can feel super special. They got into them because of genuine interest.

 

Most of my students have never seen anyone make anything with their hands. No one at home sews, crochets or knits. They never understand why I wouldn't sell them a scarf for $10-until I hand them some needles and yarn and a basic instruction sheet. LOL

 

How old are your students exactly? Didn't they at all have any crocheting/knitting/sewing in crafting classes earlier in school? We had at least one term of sewing (syslöjd) or woodwork (träslöjd), then the rest (at least 3 terms, iirc) ones favourite of those two, during 7th to 9th class.

Maybe it's just me, but it almost appears interest for handmade and/or old/vintage items increases, during times of financial difficulties. People re-value what they do value, crassly put. And some will have no knowledge about BJDs when they their first actual doll IRL, and might or might not appreciate the art form overall, once they learn of how they are made and about the nature of the dolls and how they can be customised.


I'd happily buy second hand jeans/pants for $10 or below, especially if of still decent quality and they looked like they'd last for some years longer. As for a BJDs, mass-produced they'd most likely lose some of their quality and refinement. While it is a canvas for art, it doesn't hurt if it is well-made in the first place, but one has to weigh in preferences and budget, there is a limit though I believe when quality is deceased too much in favour of price.


But yes, appears there are diferent types of "stigmas" associated with BJDs in the Western world.. I can't help wonder if this is not case in Asia, given the doll history there?

 

It's just about what's important to you. I'll settle for cheap on some things that I don't care a lot about, but always go really high end for things that I care about more. It's natural for someone who isn't into BJD to think of settling for cheap, because it's not important to them. There already are a fair number of companies who fall into the 'settle for less' category, and I don't mean to judge anyone who buys those dolls, I'm just saying it does already exist in the hobby.

As for artisans becoming more rare, it does tend to drive the prices up more. But there are people who care enough about quality that they'll always be willing to spend the extra money, even if it means saving a lot more/longer. For example, you can get any number of fashionable bags at Walmart for under $10, but Fossil is still doing quite well.

 

It's true that most kids don't know anything about sewing, knitting or crocheting, even the bare minimum for survival. When I was doing costuming at our local small university, the kids who were taking theater appreciation class had to put in so many grunt hours in on the current production. As costume shop supervisor, I had to find them things to do. Mostly I had to start them on cutting because the kid who could actually use a sewing machine was a rarity. And more than once they'd come to me to get buttons sewed on.

But to get back on topic, it's true that people have their own unique ways of budgeting stuff. My first doll, my BBB Sprite, gave me a case of sticker shock. Now it would take a much more expensive doll. But I'm a cheapskate when it comes to clothes!

 

Actually, I learned most of my domestic craft from either outside of my family or through the internet OR experimentation. (Sewing doesn't count, the woman who taught me that I consider an Aunt.) The last time I remember a home economics course was in middle school... and they've since gotten rid of it.

I agree that there's quite a bit of frugality to be had in the walmart generation. Honestly, I think most of them are cheap and lazy. "OH! This broke because I didn't take care of it. I'll go to Wal Mart and buy a new one. Oh, I need this too, and while I'm at it, I'm going to stuff my cart with some more things that I don't need!" I better stop there before I go into a food/environmental rant.

I suppose another example is at one of my jobs... people always want to know why their fancy coffee drink costs them so much, or even a cup of coffee. "Why is it seven dollars?" "Because we have to hand make this drink for you when you order it, wiht everything that you want, including the three syrups, four shots of espresso, and sixteen splenda packets which aren't fast and easy to add to your cup." >.> I can pour coffee in a few seconds. It takes me a while to make a complicated espresso drink.

In the same strain, it takes me a few minutes to make you a pipe cleaner doll (remember those? I do! XD I made them all of the time.) It would take me days to weeks to make you a cloth doll of decent quality. Let alone the months to make you a BJD from scratch.

I'm all for frugal and cheap. That's why I go to Thrift Shops now days. Where else can you find awesome plates no one else has anymore?

I don't think that made sense... I'm so tired

 

Cheaper, for me, isn't necessarily better. You might as well say that about car parts, or computer parts. Just because you save money on getting the item you want, it doesn't mean that you will in the long run.

I may be of that mindset when it comes to doll clothing, wigs, or other accessories, but only if the quality is good. I once paid $10 for a long, white, braided wig I wanted for one of my boys, but when it came in, I was so disappointed with the quality, and the more I look at it, the less I like it. By that same token, however, I bought a more expensive wig (nearly $30) and have the same feelings for it. I can't look at it without inwardly wincing.

For me, it really depends on the quality of goods, what people have to say about the company or longevity, and my own experience in dealing with them. If it's cheaper, all for the good, really. If not, then I'll just have to start saving up to get them.

 

I agree. My daughter knows how to do things like sew, knit and crochet because someone in the family taught her, or she learned from us. I think one of the things wrong also is everything cheap is devalued because 'I can always buy another'. I buy less expensive items like food and clothing at Walmart so I can also save for my hobbies, and other things. I guess the items last just as long with me as they would if they cost $50 instead of $10, because I'm not really in a hurry to buy them again. But I do admit, as someone else spoke of above, it hurts alot less if something gets torn or stained when it cost $10 vs. $30 or $50.

One thing I can't get over is I have friends who buy overpriced designer purses, like Coach- at what they refer to as 'bargain' prices of $90-or more. Usually the bags are atrocious looking...but the reason they bought it is not because it's attractive but because of that nice pricey label on it... then will get rid of it a year later because it is no longer 'in style' this year. I have often thought for what they spend on a purse I could buy several bjd's........I use this as an example because I see many people who are into clothes, shoes purses, and other items like that get bored quickly with what they have, and never seem satisfied, but always need something that is bigger and better. I haven't really run into this mode of operation/buying in the doll community so much.

Sorry if I got off topic here...but this was one of the htings I have noticed, and I understand why people get aggravated when that same materialistic purse totin' person says...You spent all that money on a doll??

 

Nyanko-sensei!

Anyways, that's a good point. The people making sock dresses and buying friends 2b made and porcelin doll clothes aren't the same ones who would potentially buy dollheart, BTSSB, SODA, Pure Drop, etc...So the artists aren't losing business.

 

Here's another angle for this discussion. What is the price people are willing to pay for "craftsmanship?" Surreality touched on this issue with her post:

What does a lawyer (or for that matter a master plumber or electrician) make per hour? When you get your car fixed there is a cost for materials and a cost for labor. Period. And you pay it (even though it hurts). Why do people think that items that are crafted by hand should have no "dollar per hour" cost assigned by their maker? If a doll dress takes 10 hours to make that is almost $70 at minimum wage before any materials even factor into the equation. Never mind something that takes a long time to complete. Referring to one of the knitting posts earlier regarding the $10 scarf. People sometimes can be offended if they casually ask "will you knit me a sweater." And the response is "Well it will be $1000 labor plus the cost of materials." Hey, my time is just as valuable as the next guys.This may be knitting, but I'm not your grandmother; it isn't a labor of love (no offense meant to knitting for loved ones!).

Ok, so a couple of points follow. Artisans can have a tough time supporting themselves off their skills because they can't get enough income out of the time and effort they put into their wares. In addition, depending on what you are trying to create, "artisan" crafts have become expensive hobbies in their own right. Buying quality materials to knit or sew your own apparel often ends up costing as much (or much more) than purchasing something in the first place. You aren't doing it to save money, but to craft something.

However, you could buy your supplies at Walmart and then, of course, you end up with something looking like it came from Walmart.

And now we have come full circle.

 

mtspal, you are made of awesomesauce! I can't really make anything decent for my dolls in terms of clothing, and I know better than to ever try a faceup again, but I am an artist and I do make doll jewelry. I had a shop, but I've been lazy about starting one up again since the Accessories market is so packed full of stuff that... welp, was made with plastic beads from Walmart. I buy high-quality beads, because I care about the finished product. I'm also a digital artist, but luckily I don't have to worry about stuff for that too much. You only buy a tablet and paint program once, haha!

Also, someone mentioned earlier how ridiculous it is to pay $50 for doll jeans. I tend to get more annoyed by people complaining about the cost of well-made doll clothes. Let me put this out there: have you ever tried to MAKE doll jeans? It's a hell of a lot harder to get all those perfect hems and details for something small. And just think, how lovely is it though to have super detailed, well-made, realistic clothing for your dolls for that favorite photoshoot you did?! It's not that they're made to endure wear, it's that they're super detailed.

Well made doll clothes with all the trim are as important as the faceup and wig. If you select the nice stuff then yes you pay them what you would pay for high end clothes for yourself. But it's not "oh how stupid, dolls are so small I feel silly" if you think about it right. You're paying the artist for their skill and expertise as much as paying for the product.

 

Coming from an Applied Arts background myself (Craft-arts, in other words) and having had an interest in art dolls for over a decade, the $1-2 thousand or more charged for some well crafted, moulded and cast BJDs is often perfectly acceptable to me in most cases. However, I know I would have a hard time explaining this to any family member on either side of the family (mine or my husbands) as Iam definately the "odd one out" in this way of thinking.
I myself only have what I believe are well made "cheaper" dolls at the moment that suit the characters I wannt them to be annd give mme the oportinity to practice and build on my face-up, modding and sewing skills whilst I'm undertaking graduate studies but would love to get my hands on some bigger beauties when I'm back to a decent job next year... and when I do I think I'll just continue to skate around the issue of price when it comes to family members...they've never really understood me anyway and tend to leave me alone Sometimes being the family freak has its advantages

 

You spend as much money as you feel you can *personally* justify on the things you WANT, and as much as is needed for the things you NEED. Why buy a Reliant Robin if you're in love with the big horsepower Rover?

Besides, buying a 'cheap' doll, replacing it, replacing when THAT one breaks.....ultimately it works out at MORE than the original 'expensive' doll in the first place. Its the Sam Vimes Boots Theory.

 

I think there's a bit of a difference here. Lawyers, plumbers, electricians, auto mechanics, etc. are doing jobs that are necessities for society. If you have a legal problem, you need a lawyer or you might lose a lot of money or perhaps be put in prison. If you have a plumbing or electrical problem with your house, you need to get it fixed or you won't be able to live there and it might even damage the structure and cause you to lose a lot of money. If you don't get your car fixed right you can have an accident, injure yourself, lose the investment you put in your car, not be able to get to work, etc. That is why those jobs command a good wage.

When it comes to art, sure, it takes time, skill and care, but it is not a necessity of life. You don't need a piece of art to get to work, protect your investment in your house and car, or keep yourself out of prison. To some people, art will have enough value that it is worth paying the high price, but this is by no means universal. If you say, "My pipes burst and I had to pay a plumber 1000 dollars to come and fix them" everybody will get that because everybody would fix a burst pipe, but saying "I'm paying 1000 dollars for well crafted doll accessories" or "for a painting" or "for a collectible" is NOT going to resonate with everybody. Furthermore, even when you have someone who appreciates fine art or craftsmanship, they might not appreciate the particular type at issue, such as sewing or doll sculpting. Maybe they have great respect and enjoyment of painters and their craft but not so much for people who sew.

There are also folks who just do not like the idea of "hand made" and would rather have it all mass-made by machine as being less prone to individual differences and potential "flaws".

Sorry, artists, but that's just how it is and most artists know and accept that they have a limited audience when they get in the game. Artists running around expecting everybody to value the craftsmanship is a bit like doll collectors running around expecting everybody to understand and appreciate their hobby - ain't gonna happen.

 

There is a large separation from what we're calling artisan crafts and the actually doll companies though. The doll companies as I understand have full staffs. Maybe not a huge list of employees but a group of people working together. It's different from the true "handmade" definition, which I think conjures pictures of someone at home crafting everything they make out of pocket, with few tools involved. The dolls are made by artists, and lovingly designed, but it's not the whole struggling artist thing.

Actually I also agree with this, a more pratical 'this is how it is' post. There is both the emotional and practical side to this case, and I see meritt to both. Most artists, unless they land a regular job with a steady company, have at least part-time jobs outside of their freelance work. I haven't heavily persued selling my art as I've got a desk job to pay the bills.

 

No, it made perfect sense LOL! I completely agree - Thrift stores ROCK! And, heck, GoodWill always has something in the way of an old shirt or pants I can use as fabric for doll clothes! ^_^

It always baffles me when a friend of mine is awed when I sew something completely non-spectacular. I just never occurs to them to try it for themselves. It also shocks me when people tell me they will never be as good at something as someone else (and by this, I mean a learned skill, as some people ARE born with a specific talent for certain arts). It took me more than half my lifetime to "get this good" at sewing, and I am the first to critique my own work because I am a perfectionist and it never seems good enough... But I digress, the point being that kids these days don't usually want to TRY because the acquired skill isn't worth their time in learning when they could just go buy something to replace it.

Then again, I'm someone who drives around her neighborhood on garbage days before pickup to "rescue" old electronics and other useful items. LOL

 

Right, and the resin dolls for most companies are also cast at a factory that can do better quality casts en masse. There are some artists who lovingly cast their own dolls by hand, but not only are they very limited in the amount of dolls they can make, in some cases the casts are more prone to having bubbles, uneven color or other "flaws." I have some of these hand cast dolls and the occasional irregularities don't bother me, but I've seen several artists come in for criticism because their casts weren't as great as the factory-made kind.