Buying dolls with social security/welfare money?

The thing is their is a criteria to fill for being able to get money for being disabled. They do checks and you have to show them everything to be able to get the benefit. It is not like you can walk in, and go well i am disabled so give me so money. They want solid proof, they will also right to any doctors and specialist to see how you are doing and how your treatment is going.

So i don't see why people should have a problem with it. I can understand if we got more then if you went to work, but you don't. Many of us in the hobby as a whole have to save to get these dolls regardless. Many people have a go at people for buying cheaper dolls, because they feel they should save up longer to get more expensive dolls.

Why have a problem with some who has to save even longer then you do to get a doll? Why say they shouldn't be allowed to buy one?

 

Maybe we can take the more personal stuff to PM's? : )

Trying to get this a bit more on topic...

I should also point out that, in Canada at least (I can't speak for other countries), it's extremely difficult to get on disability. The amount of information, forms and doctor's notes you need to collect is just staggering, and completely overwhelming to someone who actually has a disability. I was rejected the first time I applied in BC. I've heard that people dying of cancer have actually been rejected. Now isn't that just sick? And now that we've had to move to Ontario, I have to apply all over again, since for some ridiculous reason, it's not transferable from province to province. It's a nightmare.
So I'm sure there can't be that many cases of people claiming to be disabled and defrauding the system.


As for those of you harping on people on welfare, try to put yourself in their shoes. Maybe you've had just a string of bad luck and you've lost your steady job. Maybe you're having a lot of trouble finding a new job that will actually support you. Maybe you've gotten ill, but aren't 'sick enough' to go on disability, and your job has no decent medical plan or policy that will help you. Maybe you're working two part-time jobs at minimum wage, because that's all you can find, and it's still not enough to support you? (And yes, I really have heard about people in this sort of situation, it's horrible.)
You're in desperation, feeling hopeless and trying to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Trying to convince yourself that things might get better if you keep fighting. Are you really saying that these people can't use what little bit of extra money they have to buy (or save up for) something that will bring a smile to their faces?

People on welfare aren't 'living it up' on that money.

Though I certainly do agree that, yes, the few (maybe 1-2%) who purposely defraud and abuse the system need to be caught and stopped. They're giving the rest of the people who actually need it a black eye, and that's really tragic.

 

Buying dolls is also a lot better than buying drugs. Which is what a lot of people do when money is tight... Kinda pointless considering that once you've smoked/injected/taken the tab it's gone. Dolls last way longer than that. And if you're skint further down the line you can sell your doll for a possible profit depending on it's condition and how much it cost to buy.

I'm not judging anyone for how they spend their money anyway. And it IS their money. They're just not getting it from working. Because most of them can't. Despite the media insisting most people on benefits are physically capable and are "cheating the system". They're not harming anyone.

Besides, if everybody on benefits wasn't allowed to spend money on non essentials the world economy would be in an even WORSE state than it is now.

 

Apparently you missed this (in response to my example of my cousin who has been a quadraplegic since her teens):

 

I got offended because basically the beginning of this thread was people stating that you should only buy BJDs if you have a job and shouldn't be spending benefit money on things that luxury items. When they have no clue on how things actually work for some people who don't have jobs and making judgements on how they must be affording the BJDs. Despite the fact i have to save for a fair while to be able to afford BJDs and this is often topped up with gift money. As i have said it frustrates me that people have said, just because you where delt the hand you where given, you are not allowed any nice things.

The starting question on this debate is really offensive and to be honest it is no one elses business how someone chose to spend THEIR money. Certainly true of a stranger on the internet. (sorry not all of this is aimed at you, i do go into a bit of a rant to why i am angry at this debate).

I was especailly annoyed at the comments that say, oh just because you are disabled doesn't mean you can't get a job. Yes this is party true many disabled people find a way to over come what they have, or get the help they need to get jobs. This is not always possible. I know in the future once my condition is under control i will be able to work. Right now it is impossible because at best i am a healthy and safety hazard. The system is their to support me while i get back on my feet.

And again, it is the fact people have been so ignorant on the situation. Their are many different levels of disability too, some are minor and have only some impact on their lives, other disabilities rule people lives and they need to cling on to anything that will help them. This again is not for any one else to judge from an outside situation. Oh and just to throw in their about people and not having jobs, they might have only just lost their jobs and have some savings. We are in a time where any one can lose their job though no fault of their own at any time.

Oh and BTW i do have a psychologist and get a lot of help in that respect, because some people have made judgements about people buying material good to help them, and saying they don't need that they need professional help. I talk to her about the BJD hobby and apart from the horrible attitude some people have, she thinks they help me mentally in a lot of ways. So again you don't know the full story so don't pass judgement. - Many people in this hobby should know this hobby isn't just about material gain and it has LOT more to offer. This is often ranted to people outside of the hobby.

Oh and culturally (my German Psychologist goes into great deal about this) i rarely tell people about my problems, i have the very British stiff upper lip and i try and carry on with things. This can be a double edged sword, because it can help me just get on with my life on the short term. However from the outside it may look like things are OK. But often this is just a front because i am trying so hard to get on with what life i have the best i can. I KNOW for a fact i am not the only person who does this, and i know it is not just British people (we are just famous for it) who do this. The person on benefits who seems OK to you, this may well just be a front. You are not their doctor, you don't know.

My point being just because someone LOOKS OK, and seems to be getting on with their life, and just so happens to be spending welfare/ benefit money on BJDs. It doesn't mean they are conning any one, or not really disabled etc. They MAY have some SERIOUS issues and disabilities. You also have no idea how LONG it took them to save up for their dolls. Or what money was gifted to them for Birthdays and Christmas's etc. to help them get their dolls.

As people have said, no one on benefits is "living it up", why poor you has to be "normal" and get a job and work hard for what they have. We have to work hard to have anything resembling a normal life. I would LOVE to be able to work again, i have already gone into this. I know i am not the only one. YES a small number do want an easy life and not get jobs. But for many disabled people life certainly isn't easy. Oh and the "best" bit about this hobby, the next thing someone will be judging me for buying "cheap" Chinese dolls.

 

Well said, karla-chan.

 

Thank you very much

So it is not offensive for people to think other pretty are pretty much scum, and are very vocal about it? because they rely on a benefit system because of they have hit hard times?

So i DO find this offensive and yes i agree no one has a right to tell me what i can and can not do with my money. However you have no right to tell me that i am not to be offended. When i clearly feel passionate about this subject.

 

I find this topic offensive also especially since majority of the answers are targeted to those living on benefits. We are not allowed to discuss about is it okay to be gay, fat, woman, christian, wiccan etc having a doll, but it's okay to discuss about people on benefits... This tells me already, that people don't consider that a person on benefits has either the right or even the intelligence or what ever to be upset about this topic.

 

i see your point, Karla, but when show that we get really offended over a subject like this we are just empowering/enforcing the views of the people who would criticize or misunderstand our situations (like i said, i'm not on welfare, so i can't say i'm in your exact position. still...)- we have every right to be vocal about it and express our feelings in defense when someone says "you don't deserve to have nice things" but to do so in a way that shows you are truly upset just makes you vulnerable to the person who is verbally attacking (or criticizing, in a milder case) you.

then again, i'm guilty of occasional soapboxing about things that offend me, so maybe that was hypocritical of me to say just now.

also, i took KiraKat's post to be a somewhat supportive one in regards to this. s/he is basically agreeing with the sentiment that once you receive the money, it is YOUR money, that you are legitimately allowed to have according to the laws of your country, and you may do with it as you wish for as long as your govt approves of you receiving welfare.

 

yes, i would like to know a mod's opinion about this topic tbh. it is almost impossible to discuss this topic without becoming too personal (which many posts, mine and others, may already have become) because in order to write a defense on the subject you have to explain the personal situation to people who may not have a full understanding of it.

i honestly don't know where having mental or physical disabilities ultimately falls on the scale of taboo subjects but i think that while it is not something people are usually willing to discuss, it causes a lot less controversy than posts about sexuality, body image, religion, etc. maybe that is why the discussion is being allowed.

 

@ Leitan - i am offended but not upset, more angry. Which is why i opened my mouth. If that seems like i am forcing my views on other people, then i am sorry. But i feel i have just expressed them, people are free to listen and do with that what they will. But honestly i think it is nice that since opening my mouth that people have actually seen my point of view and have been understanding about it. I think that is really great, it makes me glad that i did say something about the subject.

I agree that this subject is too personal because the best way i could explain myself was to explain my situation, because at the time there was a lot of "well i know this person who..." so none of it seemed like first hand accounts. I think why this topic angers me, is because it is not like jobs are easy to come by. Even if you are fit to work, it is not easy to get a job. If we lived in a Economic boom and jobs where easy to come by i could understand people being more offended by people who are not working (who are fully able to) and spending a lot of money on luxury items.

But at the moment that is not the reality. I have friends who have taken jobs that are LESS them minimum wage, because it is a job. 6/7 years ago no one would have touched jobs like that, but it is different now.

I also did agree with her on the fact she was like: once it is your money, it is your money.

 

I think a lot of the disdain towards people on benefits using the money to buy dolls is probably based on the accuser's own situation. If we were all rich and happy, who would care what someone else is doing with their money? Sadly, many people have fallen on hard times (I myself can no longer afford dolls and have to live hand-to-mouth every day even with a full time job) and will think something like "I work 2 jobs, am gouged by taxes, and can barely scrape by and this guy is sitting at home doing nothing and buying expensive dolls?" This is not an attitude reserved for people on benefits though, it can be directed towards homemakers, people with inheritance, people who are just wealthy in general, etc...but in this case people probably think "this person is spending my tax money on luxury goods."

 

Karla, there's nothing to be sorry about. hopefully i didn't come off as too critical since i'm on your side in this debate... we probably have different experiences which lead to us being more or less offended by what she said, or interpreting the statement differently, etc. i totally see your point (it is offensive for people to bully you over this) but i just feel like the way to resist bullying is to show people that you aren't giving them an emotional reaction - whether it's upsetness, sadness, anger - when people don't get the negative reactions they want, they usually back down.


and this is where Nefla is right. many people have a serious case of schadenfreude or something akin to it - that's why we have tabloids full of stories about how "terrible" celebrities' lives are - basically it's a human instinct that when you are in a bad situation, you want to either see someone in a worse situation or make someone feel worse to feel better about yourself. so many people cannot afford what they need, let alone what they want, that they most likely feel very bitter about this.

you're right about the jobs too - i have a friend (older than me) who has several college degrees in different fields, was a teacher for many years, just finished writing his thesis..... and he now works in a supermarket, for minimum wage, and constant unpaid overtime. it is very depressing and i have heard many similar stories to the situation of my friend.

 

Nefla. But the thing is; Rearly the benefits people get are tax free. Not in my country anyway. We pay taxes from the studying support money, from disability support money, social security, welfare etc.. And all the benefits are in the government budget funds. So nothing comes from some other tax payers pockets.

"Sitting home doing nothing" is also an argument that I loath and hate the most. The benefits dont fall from heaven. People have to apply to get them. It may take months and months before they make a decision about giving benefits. People have to really make the people believe they really need the money to have a life. And having a life meaning enjoying it as well.

 

I can see why from the outside it can seem that way. When i was younger both my parents where in full time work and worked for everything they had. However a neighbour next door never worked a day in their lives but had nicer top of the range TV and DVD player. I can see why disdain would be felt, my parents used to say how unfair it was. However now i am in a situation where i am disabled and can't work however i feel i understand more.

I have no idea how long they had to save up for that items, or if it was bought on credit because those days it was super easy to get credit. If family or friends bought it for them. So it was wrong of me to judge them at the time. But times are hard for a lot of us. I WISH i could work, even if it meant i was on the same money as i am now. I know in this debate it is "this person is spending my tax money on luxury goods."

However it is also my mum's, my partners, sisters, friends, etc. tax payers money. There is a reason my dolls tend to be bought round-ish Christmas and my Birthday time-ish. Because if i want something nice, i often tell my loved ones i want money towards a doll to help me save up. The doll is often the only present i get, but i think it is worth it. But yes, sometimes this does mean my benefit money goes towards it. But i have to save any spare money i have, and often have to give up some other things, to get my dolls.

In comparison to most of my friends that do work and are in the hobby. I have far less BJDs then they do. But that doesn't bother me. I have been in the hobby for 3 years and have 5 BJDs. I have friends who work and have been in the hobby less then that and have 20+ BJDs. I have two BJD friends that live together, they have jobs and have been in the hobby much longer then me and between them they have 60+ dolls.

I also understand that people with inheritance, people who are just wealthy in general also have people who are unimpressed. But at the end of the day, it is their money and life is unfair. If life was fair, i would not be disabled. But i would honestly swap places with you, i really, really would. So to be honest i do see why i should get hate, because at the moment i am to unwell to work.

I am not living it up or anything, i have no other luxuries that i buy. I don't go out with friends much, i don't drink and quite often getting out of the house is hard for me. Going out with friends cost money, if you go out for a coffee, a cinema, a meal, a shopping trip might not cost much at the time, but it all adds up. I am not doing any of that on anything close to a regular basis.

Oh yes it is true, i have a friend who took a job at £100 per week, which is nothing really. But she needs the money. Ten years ago no one would have taken a job like that. That is how life is at the moment. It is not easy for any of us.

 

I hate this too, especailly sometimes if basic things like washing yourself, feeding yourself, dressing yourself and basic everyday thing are so hard for you because of how your disability is. Unless you experience this, or are close to someone who is in that boat you don't know how hard it is for them.

The government here makes it really hard to get on and stay on the benefit, you have to jump through all kinds of hoops to prove how ill you are. If they think there is a job you can do, they kick you off the benefit and you go on job seekers.

The hypocritical thing in this hobby is people preach all the time how it is well worth saving for the doll you want no matter how long it takes. It is probably going to take us longer to save up for the same doll, so why not? Get some money to make our lives easier, that is what it is their for. Those of us who can't manage our own finances often have someone to do it for us and give us an allowance to spend on the nice things. I have one friend who can't mentally handle paying bills, so his dad has to do it for him. He gets what is left after the bills are paid.

 

I kinda agree with this, BUT!!! I think it's good for those who come here telling how horrible it is to have no money even though they are working, there you go! You get a tiny little taste of what it is for a disabled person every single day, hard times or not. Surely a person would think in this situation, that oh my! Its very hard living without money, so now I know how hard THEY must have it for the rest of their lives (in very sad cases). Not to start thinking about how other people get money just by sitting and eating or so. And I promise you, the money they get from benefits is always smaller amount then you get with your 2 jobs.

And as I have already said SOOOOO many times, people on disability don't just go out and buy expensive things (can't see what it is so hard to understand) they save their money for even couple years to be able to get the doll they want. It's easy for those who have money to just say "oh well, I would never have the ability to save for a mere doll for years if I had no money". Well then, I guess that just tells us, that those who have to save, really really want the doll and it's much more precious to them then for a person who can afford couple dolls in a year.

And who can honestly say that it's wrong to keep something like 10$ every month to save for a doll that will give you at least some joy.

Oh and I would like to see some of you guys "doing nothing" for couple years and then come and tell here how much fun you had!