Buying dolls with social security/welfare money?

I always wonder if the people who think this of people spending benefit money think the same thing of government workers - do they feel the same kind of ownership over the spending of civil servants, teachers, police officers, doctors, nurses, firefighters and politicians? Technically they would be spending tax money on dolls or whatever hobby as well (assuming education/health/safety is publicly-funded, which they are here, although I realize isn't true everywhere - still, insert a generic "civil servant" and the point remains).

 

Well said. I think you have made some very valid points. It is VERY likely we have to save much longer then someone who works. We do always get less then someone who is working, and in a way i can see why we do, because other wise some people would not go back into work.

I think sadly we live in a period of time, where life is hard for all of us.

 

If DoA had a like comment button, i would be using it right now! I LOVE this statement!

 

Hmm... I'm not sure this conversation is appropriate for this thread. Any time I see a thread asking about how appropriate it is to spend money on dolls, I feel a little annoyed, because the issue is not the doll at all. The real question is about spending money on luxury items. The exact same question could be asked about getting your nails done at a salon, buying cigarettes, eating out instead of in, buying a new computer when your old one still runs, buying video games, buying instruments, buying art supplies... Unless you need that item to live or to do your job, it's a luxury item, and we can have this same discussion over it. Sometimes I feel like dolls are given a bad rap in issues that apply to all luxury items.

So, should people spend their welfare money on luxury items? That's between them and the government. I won't pretend that I know how welfare works and what the laws say about it. I would be uncomfortable forming an opinion without this knowledge.

 

Welfare and Social Security money, I've always and will forever see as nothing but a safety net. Especially welfare. I think people have forgotten that welfare was meant as a help to live, not really for comfort. Luxury goods such as dolls are for people who can afford them. It's like buying brand name purses with welfare. It's because people are taking money from the government even when they don't absolutely need it that my generation has a high chance of not even receiving social security when we're older (and the way social security was designed ㄱ.&#12593.
I think the biggest thing is that people forget that dolls are a luxury good, and just because someone wants something, doesn't mean they're entitled to it.

 

I agree it is a safety net, and without it i could not live at all. But why is not not OK to save a small amount of this money for something nice no matter what it is? It is not like we can afford to buy loads of nice things, with it. Plus most of my doll money does come from gift money any way.

I get money because the UK government acknowledges that i am too ill to work. Sometimes people will have illness that they will be stuck with their whole lives, and their whole lives they will need government money, lucky i will not be that ill. However is it really fair to say to someone that because they where born disabled is never allowed a single luxury in their life? That for their whole lives that are only ever allowed basics?

The money given is not decided by the person receiving the money any way, it is decided based on what the government sees that is fair to live off.

Oh there has also been cases in my country where people who have saved their benefit money and have not spent it, have had it taken away.

 

I agree, contrary to popular belief, it's very difficult to get any kind of government benefits. When I got fired from my job a few years ago, I was living in a place where there was just no work at all, people with engineering degrees were competing for McDonalds jobs, etc...(and I was applying for at least 4 jobs each DAY) At that time I tried to get unemployment/food stamps and at first they said I didn't qualify, then they said I only didn't qualify for food stamps but qualified for like $300 a month in unemployment (which they never sent me) and I don't know of anywhere that you can live on $300 a month. I think there is an idea going around based on things we hear about or see on daytime TV where some woman is living it up on every government benefit possible with her 12 kids, buying luxury items like designer bags, living in a huge house paid for with section 8 funding, etc...Do people like this exist in real life? Maybe, I'm sure there are people out there who have managed to game the system to such an extreme but it seems like it would be very hard to do and I've never met anyone like that.

 

Thumbs up for all of this.

I don't know the first thing about how most of these programs work and couldn't really say about them. But from what I do understand about disability payments, at the least, it's basically that it's treated as a replacement income for those individuals who simply cannot earn an (adequate) income otherwise. It seems to me that what those individuals do with their income is every bit as much their business as what I do with my income is mine.

As a fully employed taxpayer, I have to say that I would be perfectly happy to know that more of my tax dollars are going to help people who are genuinely in need (whether to help with their bills, groceries, or things that give them some joy) instead of going to government waste.

(And trailing more off-topic, but my best wishes to all of you who've posted who are going through hard times or have loved ones who are. )

 

Oh i agree, and if they can find any way to not give it to you, they will do. So i can fully believe what happened to you. It took me 6 months to get on benefits - i had no income during that whole time. But because the university offered to keep my teacher training place open until i got better. They argued i was still a student, therefore i could not get anything.

Also i lost all my other pay because i wasn't a student at the same time. I basically had to word a letter perfectly to get it, but if one word was out, they rejected it, it seriously took the layer 3 times to get this letter right. Never mind all my failed attempts. They never argued i was sick. They just tried to claim i was a student because i had intention of going back when i was well. It was kind of stupid.

I do believe there will be this crazy story of someone who is gaining more money out of the system then the deserve/need because they have falsely claimed. I do however thing they save these cases and only put them on the media when they want to pass new laws to make things harder. I know certainly in the UK the current government is trying to make any one on benefits look like we all just want government hand outs and as he puts it "Want to live in a something for nothing culture" but that is only true for some people.

There are not many jobs going, companies are going under all the time. Others are making cut backs so they don't have to go bankrupt, which often means job cut backs because it is the easiest way of saving money. Over here i think the rough numbers are 30-40 applicants for each job going. That is how bad it is in some cases. I know people with GOOD degrees just taking any job they can get, because a job is a job. This is why i think judging people on benefits at this time is unfair.

I know someone who is putting them selves on a 8 week UNPAID training course in hope of getting a job, because he wants a job that badly because he is fed up of not having any money. He is not certain a job either, he has to pass the course. Of course because the government sends them new ones if they fail, they make it really hard too. But he has no other choice. The only "plus" side is that they will pay is travel to and from work. Yes while he has been on benefits he has bough himself the odd luxury when he has been able to. But he applies for as many jobs as he can. So why is this wrong?

That is great, it is good to know that some people are supportive. Yes in a way it is a replacement income, but we always get less then someone who works. Which in one way is fair enough. Plus people buying dolls is much better then someone who is addicted to drugs or alcohol and actually gets bonus money to spend on those things, because they in some ways need it.

Also thanks for the well wishes, one day i will be OK.

 

I think people who say that what's left from the benefits after paying for necessities should be saved for future and making things better, don't realize that the same argument could really be pointed at working people as well.
Having a job -> more money-> more money to save. Simple. But that doesn't apply for working people right? Necessieties are the same for every one. Everyone deserves happiness in their lives.

Who is to say, that one day, that tax payer who has earned every bit of happiness in their life by working their butts of for everyone else, doesn't lose their job?

Anything could happen to them, they could end up having health issues, there could be an accident etc etc. Then aaaaaaaaaall that saved money could help, yes.
But who can say what happens in the future?
Life is now, let everyone live it as they please as long as they aren't hurting people around them.

If a person saves a little money every month to buy a doll someday, let her do it. You do the same thing! Go to work, save some money after buying the necessities, and buy the doll of your dreams.
Stop envying.

At least you have your health and your work and your money. For now.

 

It's odd to see, that people are actually so jealous of ill people, and people in need of benefits that they are willing to deny all luxury from their lives... That's something that always makes me amazed. If your work is SOOOO horrible, that you are jealous of people not working, and would rather be in their shoes then maybe you should do something about your own life rather then come here dictate how people shoul use THEIR money. The fact is, when the benefits come to the persons accounts it's their money, and they don't need to give a monkeys about what others think.

Also things such as depression come from poor living conditions. So who does it really serve that people on benefits are only allowed to buy food, they get depressed and are unable to work... Okay that's a smart idea. I'm just happy that in my country it is recognised that even people that are on benefits need and DESERVE some happiness in their lives as well. To go to the movies, or buy a little candy every now and then, maybe even some make-up. If it keeps them happy then more power to that!

I would love to see a mother living on benefits telling her little 5 year old that she won't be getting a birthday present or christmas presents since people giving the money (or people who think it's out of their pockets) to live are not allowing it since they are poor and need to live in poverty without any luxury items...

And to those who yell high taxes and are afraid of their tax money, even if it was not given to the needy, it would still be taken off your checs. I would rather pay taxes for the mere joy that someone gets one of these dollies or some other luxury in their lives than know, that it actually goes to some politicians election funds. Or flying the president all over the world in a private jet...

Oh and I forgot to say that Glammie, Karla-Chan and Malaryush couldn't agree with you guys more!

 

@ Feliara - Thanks very much.

I also fully agree with you. You have made some very valid points.

 

Honestly, as long as the person is getting benefits without "playing the system", who cares? Everyone is allowed to be able to do what they want with what is leftover from paying bills. Who would have the motivation to better their lives if they are horribly depressed because they can't buy nicer clothes, or go do something fun with family or friends? Seriously, just try to spend your income on only food, discount clothes and for paying the bills. I'm sure you wouldn't feel very nice knowing that you're never allowed to spend the leftovers because everyone will snear at you.

I personally have had to be on Medicaid for the past 4 years because the jobs I can get, only make slightly above minimum wage. If I wasn't able to use this benefit, all of my income would be going towards health insurance premiums, or I just wouldn't have any health insurance because of how expensive it is. Just being able to have health care, really has helped me be able to pay my bills and have some left over to save for a rainy day. I work two part time jobs, so it's not like I'm "milking" the system and not working.

 

But my sister's problems are mainly chemical. My dad has the same issues and they've both been sharing the same type of medication for years. All help keeps doing for her is giving her more pills that only makes her worse. Also she is becoming more and more stressed by the day due to our mum's brush with near total paralysis below the waist in May and the difficulties we've all had trying to adjust. She's buying things to relax and calm herself down because the pills aren't enough. Even somebody that didn't have to take happy pills since their early teens would seek solace in retail therapy after the past couple of years she's had.

 

KiraKat, have you ever thought that illnesses such as chronic depression not only can have multiple causes but sometimes require a 'multiple pronged' approach to remedying them?

in my limited world view, most people who have mental illnesses either A) are already seeking help in the forms of counseling and practices such as CBT, as well as being on many different medications or B) are unable get access to this help and would desperately like it, which is what welfare should be prioritized for, but i don't think any person in this thread is talking about prioritizing welfare money for dolls over money that would go towards treatment.

now, i have physical things wrong with me that often impede my everyday life, but mental (chemical) disorders and problems are also genetic in my family as well. thanks, mom and dad! okay, so unfortunately, the evolutionary urge to procreate resulted in them being perpetuated through the generations, so i have a whole host of evidence (not just my parents, but some of my aunts, uncles, grandparents, great-grandparents...etc) to look back on.

i will tell you right now that you can be on all sorts of anti-depressants and medications, have people who love you or care for you, have ANY of the "luxury" possessions cited in this thread, and have all your basic living needs and more (a roof over your head, a warm bed, enough food), and you can still suffer from manic depression to the point where you are at risk or become borderline suicidal.

this is because many people's depression is in fact not caused by external stimuli. some people experience it as a result of their poor quality of life or tragic circumstances, and those people may have a different solution to their depression to the people with chemical imbalances.

but, for many people- positive stimuli, be it material luxuries (dolls) or necessities and love, can definitely help the person who is ill a great deal....and yet, even if they have them all, the chemical imbalance in their brain can at times make it mean next to nothing. any temporary distraction or solution - anything at all, no matter how small or petty to an outsider - is important in a situation like that.

people who say "SEEK HELP" often are thinking of counseling and therapy. that takes time - literally years. both my parents have been in and out of counseling/therapy for my entire life and it has taken until well into my adulthood for me to see improvement in their cases (many parts of my childhood were complete chaos, but these days things are a lot less rough)... and in the case of pills, what do you think they do? pills are drugs - they are just legal drugs. the purpose of a drug is to alter the chemical (im)balance in your brain. that is an internal defect that cannot ever be cured by talking to a therapist - it can only be managed and dealt with. it cannot be cured.

it is not enough just to live. you need to be able to experience the joy of living, even if you find joy in the transient and shallow things, if they are all you have then, for a person who might be suicidal, they are the only thing between that person and potential fatality, as Carmine_Headmatter so clearly said.

i keep worrying that this is going too off-topic, but this debate literally cannot be had without explaining the situation from the perspective of the sick person in order to defend them. i also am in total agreement with Feliara - it's terrifying that people are so jealous and envious of people who are legitimately ill, that they want to deny them something that might help even just a little. as has been stated, once you hand your money over to the govt, you have NO WAY of knowing whether that money went towards sick kids in a hospital, or a press banquet at the White House (yeah, i know my country isn't the only one in the world. example.)... someone saving some of that money and buying something they may treasure falls at neither extremity of the spectrum, and there is nothing you can do about it.

more importantly, if you are going to complain about your tax dollars being wasted, there are literally hundreds of more wasteful things that you have no control over, that that money may be going towards than some poor girl's doll collection.

 

As someone who is a teacher and is married to a biologist employed by the government, and whose family is full of firemen, police officers, etc., I can say that the answer to your questions is "yes." Definitely yes. Ugh.

Meanwhile people ignore their neighbors who cheat on their taxes (30 to 40 percent of Americans so this-- small business owners, investors and farmers cheat the most). They are the people who are stealing money from the rest of us. Not to mention the ones who are cheating legally with off shore accounts, loopholes, etc.

 

In summary:

What is your opinion on purchasing dolls with welfare, or social security disability money(which is meant for things other than food and sheter)?
As long as the person legitimately qualifies for a benefits program (welfare, disability, etc.), it's no one's business how the person spends that money.

Is it okay?
Yes.

Is it the recipient's money to spend however?
Yes.

Is it rude?
No.

Now, to elaborate on the above. The vast majority of people on benefits do not want to be on benefits, regardless of how the media and select politicians try to spin it.

If you have a steady full-time job, ask yourself this:
-would you willingly trade your situation with a welfare or disability benefits recipient?
-would you give up your present and future financial freedom just so you could receive government benefits, which are only enough for basic survival (if that)?
-would you want to have poor health, constantly be in and out of doctors office, just to get that minimal disability check?
-do you want social workers to randomly drop by your residence in order to check over your possessions and/or health status in order to determine if you should continue to receive said benefits?

No? What makes you think that people in such situations are different from you? No one wants to be sick. No one wants to have zero financial freedom. Please note that these are all general questions and not directed at anyone in particular.

Sure, there are people who cheat the system when it comes to benefits. There are also people who cheat on taxes to avoid paying thousands, and, in some cases, millions, of dollars they rightfully owe to the society they live in. Both are wrong. The magnitude of the infraction is slightly different in each case, however.

Personally, I am glad that most societies provide benefits to those who fall on hard times or are not able to work for health reasons. I am glad that my tax money is used towards that purpose. I would never begrudge or judge people who legitimately receive these benefits for spending the money as they see fit. If a single mother on welfare can save what little extra she gets from benefits and buy herself a BJD, all the power to her! Hopefully, the doll will provide her with much needed mental and emotional relaxation therapy in order to keep positive and hopeful during the rough economic times she's facing.

 

I never thought people were really jealous of those with disabilities, illness, etc...but rather those with nothing physically wrong supposedly living it up on welfare/section 8/unemployment, etc...people you see on daytime talk shows like Maury, and people that are plastered in the news like octomom.