Buying secondhand: Boxes and certificates...are they must haves for you?

well, i LIKE getting the boxes, i dont require them (its just a nice place to store each dolls items in :3) and certificates.... well i actually only have 3 of those, some doll companies dont make them, one of said certificates is simply a card with her picture and the date she arrived on it. why would i require something that may not even exist from the real company to begin with? if i have them and i'm selling a doll, SURE i'd include them, but some people got parts in splits and have no certs or boxes so its kind of whatever. I mean, there is that worry of a recast, but since i buy all my dolls on DoA or from the companies themselves, i'm not too worried :3 (mods generally seem to do a good job spotting recasts as far as i can tell :3)

 

I think it depends what I'm buying, if it's a full doll, I'd like for it to come in it's original box (unless it's a hyrbid, and there's only a body box, then that), I'd prefer the certificates as well, but not having them doesn't bother me. It also depends on the company the doll/head/body was originally from. Not all companies have certificates, so I usually do look up the company/doll before buying to see what is coming with it.

 

Because recasts have become such a major problem, Iplehouse will no longer work on dolls or answer repair questions from their hospital board unless you can supply a CoA. In fact, if they believe the doll you are trying to get help for is a recast, they will no longer sell to you. I expect that other companies who don't do the same, soon will. So yes, the certificate is now a must-have for me. Even if I trust the seller, the lack of it would be a deal breaker. It's really horrible, too, that it had to come to this.

However, considering the fact that I have a huge stack of doll boxes in the basement that I don't know what to do with, I can live without the original packaging.

 

I definitely want the certificate, but I don't care about the box.

 

I agree with this. If it is a doll like iplehouse, soom or fairyland (full dolls) I'd probably require a CoA. Otherwise it isn't a big deal for me. I usually but here on DoA so I usually trust sellers (depending on feedback, price and so on of course).

 

Once again, just to remind people... Fairyland *DOES NOT* (and never has-) included CoAs with their dolls.

If you're asking a seller to provide you with a certificate for anything of theirs, you're asking for something that can't possibly be given. It simply doesn't exist. XP

 

I think I would only buy secondhand dolls with their papers. I don't really mind not having the box for them though. I would keep all the papers in a spot where I don't lose them.

 

I bought all my dolls secondhand, and it doesn't really bother me not having their boxes/papers/etc. I collect so many other things, that with a tiny apartment keeping stuff like tons of paper and boxes really just isn't feasible.

 

I never dealt with fairyland directly (once indirectly but it was just a head so I didn't expect a CoA) so I didn't know about the CoA (nor have I been 'reminded' of them not existing haha). Wether or not they have one it's one of those companies I am much more cautious about buying second hand. Thanks for the heads up though.

 

No, I don't really care. It's nice to have the boxes, but after a while they just take up space I don't really have. I try to only buy from people that have good feedback and only buy second hand dolls on here just to be extra safe, but the types of dolls I like aren't ones in high danger of being recasts either.
I just try to be smart about who I buy from. The box and certificates aren't needed to me. Besides, a lot of companies don't even have certificates so wanting things that don't exist is just silly...

 

Sorry if I'm being Captain Obvious here, but I think that those of us who want CoAs only expect them from companies that have them, and not from the ones that don't. I didn't really think that needed to be said, but I guess it does.

 

The problem is that a lot of people are under the mistaken assumption that all companies give out CoAs with their dolls (we just saw it right there, with Fairyland). So you do get people demanding paperwork that never even existed in the first place.

 

Yes, both if possible, if there's not the box at least, I'm not going to buy the doll T_T I'm very scared of copies.

 

I think the papers/certificates would matter to me. I'd like to know that the doll is real (ie- zero chance of it being a recast) and I'd like to have it's papers to prove it. As for the box, I don't think it would matter to me too much as long as it was shipped safely. Depending on how much I love the doll and want it, the lack of either might not be a deal breaker though.

 

Oh, that I understand, and one hopes that a bit of communication between seller and buyer would clear up any misunderstanding. But "wanting things that don't exist is just silly..." is unnecessarily derogatory. People who want paperwork aren't stupid, they're just understandably cautious. It really sucks to have a company threaten to blacklist buyers who can't provide it.

 

That's true, but not doing the homework to determine whether or not a doll even has papers that go with it before demanding those papers from a seller is, well, kind of silly. I do my homework before any doll purchase, and I'd like to think other consumers do as well. There's been a rash of people demanding nonexistent papers, or proofs of purchase (which is even more unreasonable in a lot of cases -- how do you come up with a proof of initial purchase for a doll you got secondhand, or one you bought years and years ago?). There's caution, and there's paranoia -- and what Brightfires is objecting to is paranoia.

A buyer who has done their homework would understand, for example, that old Delfs didn't come with any paperwork. The problem arises with the buyer who does no homework and hounds the seller for a CoA that never existed in the first place, or proof of purchase on a ten-year-old doll. We (and by 'we' I mean 'collectors who own mostly older dolls from before CoAs were even a thing') are seeing our ability to sell parts of our collections impacted negatively by all this paranoia, so when you see someone trying to make it very clear that not all dolls come with CoAs so demanding nonexistent things isn't going to work, that's where that person is likely coming from. I hope that makes sense?

 

Er, I wasn't responding to Brightfires, I was responding to the post directly before mine. Look, it's obvious that people should not expect the nonexistent, and if someone has hounded you for a CoA even after you explained that the company doesn't provide them, then that person is clearly a twit, and I can understand your frustration. Communication between a buyer and seller is crucial, and frankly, I'd give up on a buyer who makes ridiculous demands while refusing to do their research. But the request from people who want a CoA for a recent sculpt from a company that does provide them should not be taken lightly. It's not silly, or fussy, or too demanding. It's the sad state that recasts have brought us to. And that's really all I was trying to say, no matter how inadequately, in the first place.

 

I will only ask for the box(or at least a picture of it) if it is possible the doll could be a recast. Otherwise, it would not be a deciding factor in whether I make a purchase, though, I LOVE pretty doll boxes and would rather have them

Also, friends, keep in mind that recasters are making copies of Certificates of Authenticity! So perhaps rely on different ways together to ensure the doll is not a copy!

 

As obvious as it may seem, it very much does still need to be said, Celga...

There's a pretty wide-spread assumption these days (Particularly among newer collectors, who joined the hobby more recently than either of us did-) that all legitimate dolls come with CoAs. Not everyone thinks of researching that point to learn the truth on their own, and there have been a number of incidents where potential buyers reacted very poorly when sellers tried to explain the situation to them. I know one personally who was basically accused of lying about it.

So... yeah. It would be nice if everyone did their homework and found out about this kind of thing before they ever hit the Marketplace, but that's not the reality of the situation we've found ourselves in.

 

*nods* Agreed.

I keep the CoAs of *new* dolls that I acquire . . . but I certainly couldn't produce them from dolls I bought eight years ago, only a few of which even came with paperwork. I'm not the world's most organized person when it comes to papers (trust me, this comes back to bite me every year around tax season), and, at the time, they were simply a treat provided by the doll company as part of the "wrapping" for the doll package. Very few people, other than collectors who store their dolls in their original boxes, will necessarily be able to come up with the CoA of an older doll from their collection.

(Since my dolls are on display -- in a darkened room with blackout shades, but they're on shelves so that I can enjoy them when I'm in there -- I don't keep them in their boxes, I re-dress them frequently, I'm not a stickler for keeping fullsets together, etc.)

None of this means that I'm in any way less than *scrupulously* careful with my dolls -- but I've always collected for my own pleasure, rather than with an eye to reselling.

However, given current financial conditions, selling is something that I've had to consider -- and it twists my guts to know that, for example, nearly all of my Volks dolls were purchased on the secondary market, and therefore don't have a CoA. In many cases, I can come up with an e-mail trail showing the purchase from the previous owner, but I don't know whether they bought directly from Volks, or whether the doll passed through several sets of hands. I've also bought bodies from one seller and heads from another -- many of my Volks dolls were purchased in pieces, over time. It's just the way things were done, some years ago, if you didn't want to pay a premium for FCS using a shopping service.

I absolutely support buyers who want to avoid recasts (although I will be LIVID if IpleHouse ever refuses to service one of my dolls, given that I bought all but one of them directly from them, which should be in their records), and I think that asking for papers is a good move, but buyers DO need to understand that many older dolls (and many current ones) were produced without CoAs.

If their research contradicts the seller, then by all means, they should bring it to the seller's attention, and perhaps the seller can contact the company for clarification . . . but I think it's absolutely going too far to assume that a seller is committing malfeasance if they say that a doll never had papers in the first place, particularly if they're the doll's first owner and can provide an alternative proof of purchase.

-- A