Buying secondhand: Boxes and certificates...are they must haves for you?

What Teddy said...

Plus, you need to realize that not all certificates even HAVE serial numbers... much less serial numbers that can be checked against any sort of on-line order database. Soom's current set-up is a rare and unusual thing in that respect, and not at all typical of doll companies in general. (And even Soom's system isn't fool-proof. Dolls with certificates issued before the last site redesign, including all of the early MDs, *aren't* in the system, and so trying to check their serial numbers will give you an "invalid" result even when the dolls are completely legitimate.)

Most certificates are just a little card or piece of paper with the name of the sculpt and the date of manufacture. Some of the fancier ones may have the sculpt's picture or a bit of embossing on the company logo, or, like Volks FCS and One-off cards, may have additional information about that particular doll... but most aren't terribly fancy and so aren't the sort of thing that's particularly difficult to fake.

Another concern about depending on certificates is the second-hand market for doll paperwork and other ephemera... People buy and sell boxes and paperwork all the time, for a variety of reasons. So, even if the doll you're looking at *has* its paperwork, that's still not a 100% solid guarantee of legitimacy. How do you know that paperwork actually came with that doll?

 

Having the box doesn't bother me. But if the doll comes from a company that does certificates or some quiet of authentication , then I would like to have that as it shows that the doll is a legit doll.

 

I guess it doesn't bother me. i have a Soom Saiph head and an Elfdoll Smiling Soah head, neither of them came with their original box or certificate,.. Its not really a deal breaker for me i guess. I just figure that the stuff got lost somehow. people lose their doll parts so I'm not surprised that they lose a box or a certificate.

 

Well I am about to purchase a doll and the person doesn't have a certificate but does have the original box. But even if they didn't I have bought stuff from their etsy store and they are a lovely person. I like to go by someone's word as much as possible, it might be silly to trust people I have never meet like that but yeah.

 

As a collector i'm only interested in dolls that come with their original boxes (or pouches/bags if they have those instead) and COA/paperwork. If the doll was by SOOM for example a COA is a must as these dolls are widely available as recasts so it's important to be able to verify what is legit and what isn't. I need to be 100% certain that if a doll is being passed off as legit that it absolutely is.

 

Boxes are not required but after all the recast invasion and scammers, COA is a must. If they lost it, proof of purchase from the company with the order number so I can contact the company to confirm or name from the previous owner.

I'm not taking chances, I'd be so mad to find out that I got a recast, this is why my newest dolls have come straight from the company or from Mandarake because they only sell legits and the dolls come with the boxes/COAs and all paperwork. I love second hand dolls, when I find one I will ask for proof or COA (and the COA must be legit because I have read stories of people making fake COAs).

 

I personally don't feel the need to have a CoA or Box (although, if a doll was Limited Edition, I would probably like to have them). I know it's not totally foolproof of me, but I generally feel safe as long as the seller has good reviews or feedback.

 

I don't think that they're must haves, but they are definitely nice to have! One note about the Fairyland ones - why don't they actually state which doll it is on the certificate?

 

Most of my dolls have their certs, their boxes, and their headplates. But I have a few that are missing at least one of them. I bought them from people I trust and I am pretty darn sure they are 100% legit. I do not worry about it that much. If I have concerns I do not get the doll.

 

The boxes aren't all that important to me but I wouldn't be able to trust a doll without papers unless I knew the seller personally and could count on their credibility.. I wouldn't want to risk accidentally getting a doll that wasn't legit..

 

I would *far* prefer to have them, but recently I bought one of my grail heads from a seller with really good feedback and it didn't come with either, so... if it's one that's hard to get then I'll take what I can lol!

 

For either the doll box or certificate, it isn't a 'must have' for me. Obviously, I expect both if I am buying straight from the company, but as a lot of people said, I am more interested in the doll then a box and some fancy looking paper.

 

because of the escalating rate of recasting I'd seriously re-think the 'no certificate' idea of yours... that fancy bit of paper is now more important than ever.... especially if you end up needing/wanting after service on the doll from the companies. Example Iplehouse will not even consider selling you a replacement part (that isn't available through regular stock) if you don't have an authentic CoA. Recasts are causing a lot of trouble for companies and this is one way to protect them, and you from buying "fraudulent" dolls or doll parts. If you really want a box replacement you can likely get one from the company for a few dollars too.... I did for 'costume' boxes and was told I 'could' replace the entire doll box if needed...

 

Thanks for the heads up...I guess? I mean, it is not like it is just some great difficulty to avoid buying recast, it is entirely possible with a decent amount of research. But more than likely people are buying them because they want to buy them. I have not bought any recast dolls, and have no intention of doing so in the future. I just know that it is all too easy to lose the certificate...and throw away a box...

 

it's harder than you think with shifty sellers.... a more experienced buy just got caught with a 'half' recast doll... the head was authentic... the body which had the company stamps in the parts... was a recast. Bodies are easier to sneak by even more experienced owners... it's not until the doll is in your hands that you can 'really' tell. Best case here is buy from original doll companies or sellers you can verify their trustworthiness. The bit about ppl buying because they want them is not the thing to worry about.... it's when 'they' decide to sell second hand... And way more newbies think seemingly legit companies are selling legit dolls... and they are not... if a company takes pre-orders for a doll of another company makes... 'warning'... especially if they 'make' the doll... this is a particular issue with Iplehouse. The only way to get a new IH doll is directly from IH. If it is sold as newly cast and is not from IH... it's a recast... newbies do not always know this... (note i speak of IH since it is the one company I do know about). The only other way to get an authentic IH doll is second hand. Recasters suck in the dishonest and those who have not yet learned what they need to know. And even then ppl get caught unknowingly

 

Your attitude is more than a little blinkered and doesn't take into account that certificates are relatively recent things and we're talking about second-hand dolls here - many dolls out there were made and sold and resold before certificates were introduced so it's unrealistic to expect a certificate with every second (or third or fourth) hand doll.

Yes, some of the early BJDs did have certificates, but, at the time, they were just an extra bit of paper that came in the box and were often thrown out with the box, or lost in the meantime. For example, I've had my Narae for years, and she came with a certificate but, at the time, certificates weren't a big thing so it meant nothing to me. I'd forgotten she even came with one until I was clearing out some long-neglected paperwork a couple of years later and found it - and threw it out with the rest of the unwanted paperwork because certificates still weren't a big thing at that time, and it was, at the time, just another unwanted piece of paper to clutter up the place.

Many of my dolls predate certificates (not to mention the whole recasting issue), and many are second and third hand and didn't even come with their original boxes. I'm not intending to sell them, but you never know what life will throw at you, and if everyone had your blinkered attitude, I wouldn't be able to sell them because of them having no original boxes or certificates.

It's not all rigidly black-and-white - there are areas of grey, and telling someone to "seriously re-think the 'no certificate' idea of yours..." is very a uncompromising attitude that doesn't allow for any flexibility.

Teddy

 

i do not agree.... I am advising that if possible always go with authenticated.... note.... IF POSSIBLE I am not so stupid or ignorant (which you clearly imply) as to not realize not all dolls have them originally. But to blithely ignore the "current" importance of CoA's is most definitely not a smart thing... and I said not one thing about the necessity of boxes... And in the case of getting 'after service' for a doll w/o CoA with many companies it IS black and white. Companies are taking steps to attempt to protect their products and thus the clients who buy them. The buyers have a responsibility to not make that effort pointless...
If you choose to not care about keeping records that's your choice... but not keeping them and expecting a potential buyer to have the same 'lack of care' (you said it yourself so it is what it is) is silly to say the least.

I grew up with 'CYA' & 'document document document'.... drilled into me.... for a good reason. And yes I have had to make use of these save bits of 'unimportant' papers years after the fact. So to tell others there is no importance is not helpful at all.

i also said to 're-think' the position.... not they had to or face consequences... I want ppl to know it's not as simple anymore... and to think before they take an possibly unnecessary risk rather than go with a blase attitude.

 

Silly or not, it was the prevailing attitude before recasts and certificates became an issue.

Since most dolls didn't come with certificates, it wasn't a matter of making a choice not to keep the document, they didn't have them. Very few people were bothered if their second hand doll originally had a certificate since so few of them had them to begin with, so some people (myself included) didn't see any need/value in keeping them (as far as I remember the Narae was the only doll I got that even had a certificate at that time).

Oh, and the your post that I was responding to said NOTHING about:

All I was doing was pointing out the side of the coin that your post didn't mention.

Teddy

 

I always really want the original boxes and COAS, but once or twice I have bought dolls that did not have them. I will pay extra for them if they are available.

 

It depends. I love to have doll boxes and COA's, it just depends whether or not the pieces I'm looking for have them.