Calling All BLACK BJD Collectors, Are You Out There?

HI XD I'm one of said black people!
Edit:

I was at one point the only black person in a group of doll owners, in Las Vegas. In SC I have infected my black buddy. I do admit I am a little um, wanting of more dark skinned dolls but I can understand why there isn't since they are harder to make. I do like that there are more now and even some african american looking dolls.

Personally I do prefer darker skinned dolls then again half of my collection is paper whiteXd

 

I have an African American friend (b/c that's what she refers to herself as) and while she has displayed interest in bjds, she's never expressed a desire to get one for herself; her interests lie elsewhere. But other than her, I have not met any black bjd collectors. I'm quite the introvert irl.

While I agree there is definitely a black culture, especially here in NYC, what I don't understand is how it has anything to do with any black person collecting dolls. No matter what culture you're a part of there will always be people who will disagree with bjds for whatever reason is most prominent in their minds. Like...there are plenty of threads here discussing people hiding their dolls and relating with one another on how strangers to the hobby treat us. I'm confident that all the posters come from different backgrounds; and even though we all come from different backgrounds, I feel that a lot of the reasons people disagree or agree with our reasons to collect overlap to a certain extent.

I'm not a black collector but I do feel that there is very little diversity in the sculpts available. I don't blame the companies for the lack of diversity, after all, nearly all of them originated in Asian countries. And in my time in Tokyo/Osaka/Kyoto, Japan (two weeks) and in Seoul, Korea (three day layby) I barely saw any black people if any (heck, I didn't even see any other tanned/dark skinned race). So I wouldn't blame most of them for not thinking about creating a black sculpt. Furthermore, their sense of beauty is very different: smooth round faces with a dash of Caucasian (I don't want to generalize, but, you know all those Japanese girls who wear so much make up to make themselves look less Asian? And the boys are pretty boys?), yeah that's their current sense of beauty. A black person's sculpt is much more elaborate and exotic (to their standards). Also, from what I've seen in this hobby, it started with anime styled sculpts. It's been very recent since companies started creating more realistic sculpts.

But hey, as a balance to this lack of diversity, a large part of this hobby is about customization. Sand them, add to them, dye them; sky's the limit. There are also several companies that offer custom sculpts or custom skin colors

 

I always thought the name "normal skin" was chosen because it was the most common skin tone. If you look at Volks (first BJD company), only special limiteds were cast in white skin. So you had the normal skin tone dolls were usually cast in, and 'white-skin' to show that this was a special edition.
I don't think the names had anything to do with the makers being asian, in fact, Volks Sunlight skin is probably the closest to their own skin.

 

I am a black female owner :3 I'm usually the only black person in anything I do so I'm kind of used to it lol, but I definitely notice when there is a lack of cultural diversity. In High School I was usually the only black person in my classes and in my group of friends and I have only seen one other black collector in person at the Uncanny Dreams Expo in Seattle, and we just kind of awkwardly smiled and went our separate ways. I have 6.5 dolls and one of them is a dark tan Resinsoul Mei (which even then you have to kind of specify that you want DARK tan and not just their regular "coffee or tan..whatever they call it")

I do wish more companies had those gorgeous dark skin tones. Most tans are just like a yellowish weird thing and literally are like a super tanned fair-skinned person. Most of the time the tanned dolls just look Indian or Native American because of the angular features they still posses. I remember a long time before IH had their dark skinned dolls, Cocori was like one of the only REAL black doll with features and skin and I saw a white skinned Cocori and she just looked awkward to me. I think it's hard for me to see a broader nose on a fair-skinned doll and think of them as any other race, it kind of still just looks like a black person no matter how light. Maybe even like an island race. Beautiful still regardless, but being able to take a doll that was released in a darker skin as a black doll, I think the black features will always be dominant just as the Asian/Caucasian features of tanned dolls.

I love Souldoll's tan and Bambicrony's tan (though Bambicrony can often get yellow undertones rather than a pink or cream that I prefer in tans) I'm planning on getting a tan Spiritdoll boy as my next, but I have it in my head that he will be...Indian I suppose? My characters reside in a fantasy realm so there are no real races other than like...those of fiction. Just color differences, but if the features aren't "black" then it's more likely that the doll will end up looking East or West Indian or an island race rather than African. Always love skin color options though! I have a grey girl and I plan on getting a blue and a pink doll in the future. I think it's just variety that we all seek and without the option to get a doll that looks like YOU, you lose some of the excitement of being INVOLVED in this fantasy world us dolly owners do so enjoy. Just like there are a lot of heavier-set doll owners who feel they aren't represented because all the dolls are impossibly skinny or muscular. As with most things, it will get better with time and I am so happy Iplehouse has color options all the time now! One big step for dolly-kind!

Also I think that with this thread, and as with anything really, Black people just kind of have a natural tendency to seek one another out because of their general and personal history and bla bla. lol it's also really interesting, to me at least, to be able to see all different types of cultures getting into things like this and being proud of it and just enjoying expressing themselves! I guess if you're not Black, it can be confusing or seem pointless to understand it, but it's psychological too I'm sure. When you're a little kid who lives with black people, regardless of your race, you're going to tend to stray towards spending more time with black people outside of the home as well. Comfort level and all that. Also, a lot of Black people have the same or very similar values and lifestyles I think ...whereas most Caucasians and Europeans have a lot of diversity. To some people, skin color is not even something that occurs to them, but to many non-whites (and even white people within heavily cultural communities) it is always comforting to know you're not ALONE in this one factor that separates you from others. Racism and Race perception are still big issues IN THE REAL WORLD. That's why even though I'm comfortable with and accepting of any racial group, I am still aware that I am a black woman and that I just live a different type of life and there is still the possibility of being perceived differently than say a white or Hispanic woman.

 

My family is from the non-USVI West Indies. -smile- My mom's skin has such a pretty red gold to it! My dad has darker skin; the new Iplehouse Elemental Guardian guy looks like him when he was younger. At any rate, I'm only American because I was born here. My parents were fully naturalized when I was in kindergarten. I wasn't raised with the "black culture" of America, either, and like Frozen I and my brother were usually the only black kids in a lot of things. We had a joke about String Orchestra that black kids in Strings were like the Sith...there can only be two. XP The first time I went to A-kon there were only a handful of black people in attendance, but this last June there were TONS. The whole minority presence had increased! I was so excited and happy.

Love how you put this! This is how I feel about fantasy in general. It's another way to fully connect to the character and the situation. I'm hoping that as the presence of more minorities increases, we'll see them move out of the supporting or token roles and into the spotlight.

 

This is the part that I find interesting (the bold part): although Asia is so heavily homogeneous, they still make a ton of "caucasian" looking dolls- and always have. I think this is something that's kind of hard to explain- the truth of the matter is that certain historical events have allowed certain features to become universally considered "attractive", while other features have been banished to the "fix it now" queue. Please note- I'm not up in arms or anything, I'm just pointing out a contrast that I noticed, that it also seems like a lot of people don't pick up on. I'm sincerely glad Iplehouse has taken the step towards making those features recognizably and hopefully there'll be a bit more in the future.

Frozen: I swear you read my mind and said it better! Thank you! LOL I'm going to hang out in this thread now for a bit since I too come from a lifestyle where I'm always the only black person present. I've only met one other black collector at a meet, and I'm sad that I didn't get a chance to really talk to her. It's awesome so see so many of us around DoA though!

 

I'm half black, I count right? Lol.
I have noticed a rise in "tan" skin lately, its gratifying. When i first started collecting the fact that "white" dolls where called natural skin bugged me, natural for who? But I've gotten over it, not everything has to be politically correct. I know a few black collectors (all female like me), and they have all noticed the lack of colored dolls in general. But the doll companies seem to be working to correct this

 

Probably not natural for anyone - even light tans (RS coffee, Volks sunlight) are lighter than a typical actual person with European or East Asian ancestry!

I realize that you're probably using "black" as a shorthand for "African-American" here, but since this is a multinational board I feel compelled to say "Oh? Jamaican culture and Somali culture are the same now?" Humans as a species are diverse!

I disagree - Asia is hugely diverse. In the context of dolls I suppose you could make the argument for just Japan or just South Korea - but all of Asia? No way.

 

well they couldn't have called it white or what would they call the actual white skin?? xD
but I agree, why "Normal"? why not peach or beige or something of that kind?
someone on the previous post said it was most likely because it was the most common skin tone for dolls. the basic one if you please. *shrug*

 

Are you, or do you know of many black collectors in the BJD hobby?
Well I suppose I fit the bill. I'm of mixed heritage, predominantly black. I'm also male. I personally know two other black collectors, both female.

If you are a black collector, how do you feel about the availability of non-Asian or Caucasian sculpts and/or skin tones, in the market?
I feel like it doesn't bother me at all, I'm a very take it as it comes kind of person, so I dont spend a lot of time wishing for things that aren't there. I personally own three IH dolls, and two are EID in the RS tone (the first was made to be my avatar, although the character is French, and the tone is very similar to my own.) and the stories I create very rarely call for a specific skin tone. To date, the closest to an actual Caucasian skin tone I've seen is Soom tawny, so *shrug* Its less about color and sculpt for me and more about intent. I can see where it could be limiting if someone were to want to create a doll of a very specific look, and it seems like a couple of companies are filling in that gap for not only ebony skin tones but also believable ethnic features (IH, soom, and Dollmore, am I the only one who thinks Mellow Cole looks JUST like Naomi Campbell?) So I would say its a waiting game, its getting there, just not as fast as some people would like.

And to add, nobody has ever clocked me on being a 6 foot tall black guy carrying a 2 foot tall bjd (except when I was carrying Fortuna, my Tedros, and a gentleman said he looked just like me.), granted where I live you will probably see something weirder in the next 10 steps. But I consider myself out of the ordinary anyway, so even if someone did mention it in a rude way, I'd probably just accept that its their issue, not mine.

 

This was my mistake- I didn't mean to suggest that all Asians are the same- I only meant that China, Japan and Korea are more homogenous in physical features than other places. I'm fully aware that China has hundreds of languages and ethnic groups, and I know that Japan and Korea have diversity within their populations, but racially speaking, they are extremely homogenous countries. This is to say nothing of South Asia which is quite different both racially and ethnically.

I also want to point out that while the "normal" resin tones aren't always natural, they are representative- and it's pretty clear what they're meant to represent- whether they are natural or not. Just like ebony resin isn't particularly natural because no matter how dark your skin is, all of us have variations in the shade and tone of the pigment, but ebony resin is used to represent 'black' skin. I don't have a problem with any of this- since it's resin after all, it's nearly impossible to replicate the true beauty of real skin without blushing, but it is still rather nice that we get our approximation of racial representation in the bjd world too, and it should be continued even if it isn't perfect.

On this note, of course we have different cultures and ethnicities within our race! However, when we are confronted by caucasian society, we all sort of get lumped together as "black" people - or even African American! I am not American at all- I live here, but my ethnicity is West-Indian and Nigerian, and my nationality is actually British. Yet I've heard black people in England referred to as African American in America. This may just be due to the American-centric world view that my particular circle of associates is well endowed with, but it's a problem that many of us have. In one way or another, it's hard for a lot of us to have our cultural and ethnic heritages recognized by others in a predominantly Caucasian society. I think this is what Frozen meant.

 

Half-black male reporting in. I would have to say I care more about the face/body sculpt rather than skin tone, but for some reason, I really like pale skin.

 

Yeah, I agree with that totally, but that's not the same as having a uniform culture. Plus it's so context dependent - ethnicity and language are a much bigger part of the puzzle where I am (to be fair, I know that colour is the bigger thing elsewhere).

Well, it's used to represent darker skin tones more than black specifically - I have an Iplehouse ebony Chase who is fairly close in colour to my (South Asian) husband and a Volks Irvin (which is in their ebony) and he's pretty close in colour to my (mestizo/Latina) sister-in-law. I always shake my head when people debate whether a dark-coloured doll has "black enough" features, as though that were the only other option outside of European and East Asian.

 

This so much! People of African decent are not the only dark skinned people on the planet. So why then does every doll with tan/ebony skin have to be measured with how "black" it looks facially.

 

If I want a doll with a particular tone and features, I'm going to evaluate what is avaliable to see if it will work. There isn't anything wrong with that. No one is disputing that there are people of all tones and features in the world, but I don't think that was quite the point of the thread.

 

No one said there's anything wrong with that - that's perfectly natural! What I'm commenting on is the oft repeated implication that dark skin always represents sub-Saharan African ancestry. That's just not true in life (or in fantasy, which is another option with dolls, of course! ).

 

Yes yes, I definitely meant as far as Americans since I am American too. lol I just mean that a lot of other ethnicities come here too, but usually African Americans are very similar. Even sometimes dark skinned people of other races can fall into that "African American" Lifestyle and demeanor if they come to live here. But definitely in other parts of the world I don't even really consider other dark-skinned people since like..I refer to African Americans as black..usually other skin colors are just referred to as African or Jamaicain/Haitian/Whatever they may be and culture is completely different. So to me Black means African American

Also, to silverholly and Teruchan thank you! I'm glad it didn't seem like I was just going on a tangent lol because I definitely prefer the fantasy aspect of things and I feel like if I can be a part of it in some way other than as a spectacor/outside force, then I can be more connected to it!

 

Yeah I'm with you Mariano G! I have been singled out as being the only black person in a group, but also, among other black people, I also get extra attention (positive and negative) for having light skin. Both of my parents are black, but my mom has light skin and silky hair as opposed to the typical coarse hair because her parents were black/native american and black/hispanic....so I even have a twin brother and he is like way darker than me! Darker people sometimes have a complex about being dark too and they lash out at the lighter skinned black people..@o@...

SO EVEN WITHIN BLACK there is a separation/perspective shift between shades!Knowing personal features/traits of a doll owner doesn't mean you're going to be friends or be able to help each other if you have things in common, but it's still fun to reach out to those you share things with. Like when male owners reach out to other male owners or people of a foreign culture reaching out to those with the same or similar cultures. It's exciting and creates another level of comfort and gives you one more reason to keep doing what you love and share it!

 

I totally respect both this point, and the one that Hervoyel made that it referenced. I know that other races can be dark skinned, in fact, that's why I used the term "black" rather than say, African. I also would like to acknowledge that we definitely don't have a uniform culture- that was my entire point, but I'm saying that we're often perceived to (which is unfortunate.) I think it's wonderful that we can have dolls of *any* race other than caucasian or Asian, although I'd like to point out the presence of both of those races in my collection ^__^

I think the thing with Iplehouse though, is that when they present a dark skinned doll, people do kind of assume it's going to be African, since if we want to return to what people said earlier, they're only just finding out that we like dolls that represent a variety of races. Still, I know some guys from India who have darker skin than I do and they're extremely handsome :3
That said, seeing those features on any doll regardless of what race you interpret it as is a good thing, so I say keep going! It's nothing to get upset about Cloudedmind, it's just a matter of seeing things from other perspectives. I do get frustrated sometimes that just about everything sort of excludes me and people *like* me, or kind of makes a half hearted attempt at including us. It's nice when things do work out the way you like, and you get to feel like everyone else does for a little while. I know that people of African decent aren't the only ones who are dark skinned, or suffer, or have difficulties, or want dolls that look like them, we're in good company I'm sure! Still, I like the fact that we can give our responses and our opinions and talk over them, and discuss things a bit. It's pretty cool!

Frozen: I'd just like to make a point about hair: when it comes to african hair of any kind, "coarse" isn't really the right term, what makes hair spongey and poofy is the fact that each individual strand is curly If you want more info, google "natural hair".