Can dolls be too pretty?

"Frankly, if someone was having self esteem problems because they don't look like inanimate objects or cartoons of people who don't exist, they have bigger underlying problems than the dolls having perfect breasts." ~~ EXACTLY. Thank you for this!

 

To give a quick answer, no, I don't think dolls can be too pretty.

Just like with real people, I don't think the level of a doll's interesting-ness (is that a word? ) relies soley on it's physical attributes, and giving a doll features out of the norm will not automatically make me like it. Like a few others have said, I don't want my dolls to look like real people - in fact, super realistic dolls creep me out the same way super airbrushed real people photos gross me out. Dolls and people are not the same things, and I don't particularly enjoy seeing one trying too hard to look like the other because to me it just makes an unattractive mixture of the two rather than something desirable to look at.

I *do* want my dolls to be exceedingly pretty, because I like to photograph them and I enjoy the aesthetics of a beautiful doll. Though just as with giving a doll classically "ugly" features doesn't make it automatically interesting doesn't mean that a very pretty doll is necessarily nothing more than a vapid, boring shell, either.

Without going too much into a doll's backstory giving it more depth, it's very possible to convey an interesting personality with even the most beautiful doll simply through pictures alone. Presentation is key - careful posing, eye positioning, even the way they're dressed or have their hair styled can show off a lot about the perceived character of a doll, and the doll doesn't have to have a skin condition or disfiguring mark to do so, either. I give all of my boys backstories and character traits that I consider to be realistic, and do my best to show this character through their photos, even when no text is involved to help clarify. I might not always succeed, especially to the errant viewer who isn't familiar with their stories, but that's why I keep on photographing them. ;3

 

I actually think overly large breasts on a doll is FAR from perfection. I find them downright disturbing, and not in the least bit attractive. This is probably another reason I have always shyed away from girl dolls (while I love their heads). Because I really can't stand the obsession with the big breasts. I really, really find smaller ones much, much more beautiful, but it seems I'm in a harsh minority.

I also think that there is no "overly pretty" doll when it comes to male dolls. The only women I see in the entertainment industry is just way too pretty, and I'm sick of the complete absense of the male equivalent. I literally see more attractive men (not the quirky attractive, I mean downright perfect beauties) walking around my city than I do in Hollywood. I hate the fascination with "quirky" beauty in human males, but NEVER in human females. It's nice to have a hobby where males are the idealized beauties for once!

And most of the girls really don't look like human girls at all. So, I don't really feel they are too overly pretty. Just too dolly sometimes.


I also think it is interesting how people always talk about wanting more "character" in a doll through ugliness. Personally, all my fantasy characters are remarkedly beautiful, but have real complex personalities. I always hated how people try to represent personality through "looks." I dress in whatever I like, and my dolls do, too. And it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with their personalities. I rely on backstories more than looks to really bond myself to a character or a doll. I hate judging someone (or something) by the outside without really getting to know the person (or doll/character).

 

Acne scar marks I'm OK with. Anything 3D (like a zit)... I'm not thrilled by that idea. I can understand wanting to give them marks and such to make them look more diverse and dynamic, but my only concern is how would one go about that without not making it too realistic? I'm thinking that, because these dolls tend to have smooth features, a zit that stands out might detract from the rest of the doll's appearance (I'm thinking that mole scene from Austin Powers 3).

I'm not a fan of modding scars or acne, or anything particularly heavy-duty, but if you can find a way to create the appearance of acne without it being too distracting to the viewer, go for it!

A doll of the same sculpt is most likely going to look like every doll of that sculpt (minus resin color differences) if it was completely bare. They're not like human faces, that are all unique and different due to genetics. I can see how people wouldn't feel that their doll was fully complete with just having a face up. I think that's why people mod their dolls, sometimes. Opening the eyes or almost anything having to do with altering the original sculpt can drastically change the look of a doll, causing it to be more unique than the other dolls of that same sculpt. It doesn't have to be to make it 'ugly' or flawed, it can be to make their doll stand out a little more from the rest of it's sculpt for a myriad of reasons.

And while I do like seeing what people can do to a sculpt without doing anything extensive, I actually find it much more interesting to see a doll that has been modified or painted in a unique way. I find it a nice change of pace.

On doll chest sizes, I think most dolls have boobs that are created so that they'll instantly look good under clothing, which lends to the gravity defiance.

 

This exactly. My short answer is no, dolls can't be too cute.

I've never thought of features like freckles or beauty marks as flaws so I can't comment on that taking away from the "cuteness" of a doll, but I honestly can't think of a good reason for a doll to have acne all over their face just to make them more realistic and relatable. I don't want to look at my beautiful expensive doll and have flashes from my jr and high school days being all oily and feeling disgusting. That doesn't mean someone here on DoA won't come up with such a well done case of doll acne that I won't be impressed by their talent but I'm not collecting my dolls to look exactly like real people (has anyone mentioned doll back hair yet? There's realism for you), I'm collecting them because I want something as close to visual perfection that I don't see too often in real life. I try to give all my dolls realistic personalities and that affects how I see them in the physical sense. To me they all seem like down to earth real-life people because they have some serious issues- they don't need visible acne or leg and underarm stubble to get the point across that they are just human.

For the boobs discussion I personally don't care how big or small they are, as long as they look natural (or implanted- hey, I know a few interesting people IRL with nice looking implants) and not like globs of resin thrown on the chest as an afterthought. As an example, the original Angelsdoll 62cm female body has the cutest- just in my opinion- small boobs. I love them, I think they look really natural and realistic. But the next 62cm female body they came out with, the one Rin is on, is a major step back in terms of boobs- again, just in my personal opinion. The chest is bigger and loses a lot of its charming realism. But hey, a lot of people like the new body, so what do I know?

 

Know what, though? You're not in the minority around here. At all. As someone who has those traits in real life, maybe I just notice more when people go on endlessly about how it's trashy or tacky or ugly or sleazy or slutty, but those things generally stand without any voice of opposition when they're said, and it becomes a "lovely" instance of (usually) women bashing other women based on their physical traits. (Similar to the 'I don't want this unrealistic thinness', when there are naturally slender folks around who also take offense, and fairly so, and I say that as a heavy person.) I don't see -- ever -- the bashing of the smaller size sculpts, or personality-based prejudices and negativity associated with them in the same fashion I do the larger sizes.

It's not really a point on which to play the victim if you have even the slightest smidgen of perspective and observational skills. I've not seen a single "harsh" post slamming the smaller sized bust sculpts, but I've seen mountains of small-minded nonsense about the larger that extends well beyond what a piece of resin looks like and characterizes personality -- which resin doesn't actually have, but people do -- cheerfully spouted all over the board. Seriously, which of those realities is the actually harsh one?

Personally, I like all sizes, from 'flat as a board' to 'omg they're bigger than her head', because different things suit different characters. I have one of the Glamour Eves -- and yet, the only mod job I've ever attempted was to shrink down Super Gem bewbs to better suit the idea I had for a character, who was supposed to have a slight, waifish appearance. *shrug*

I also completely fail to see where anyone said any specific size indicates 'perfection'. There is a cultural, male-gaze assumption that 'bigger is better' that might be being associated with people stating their personal preferences or erroneously believed to be the worldwide view, but silly me, I thought that had been recognized as a giant whopping load of bunk a long time ago by anyone with a lick of sense. It certainly isn't the typical opinion expressed on this forum, and it hasn't been raised here as being an essential standard of beauty to which something must adhere to be considered an element of perfection.

Yegods, I talk about bewbs a lot. *head-desk*

 

What you said Surreality! I'm about the proportions of most average dolls I see and I am still Well within the range of 'walk into store, buy bra in my size, walk out". Plenty of girls I know are Much larger and I live in an area where smaller women are the norm!
There is nothing wrong with big boobs, there is nothing wrong with small boobs. Most dolls seem to come in an average C-cup size.
All the dolls with "ow that's gotta hurt her back" sizes are all limiteds or special ad ons. Soooo, I don't get this boob hate going on.

 

Well said, surreality. Looking back at my first post, in the boob section, I hope it didn't sound like I was dissing the 2nd AD body's boobs because they were bigger, but because they looked less realistic and not as well sculpted as the first. Like I said, I have no problem with big or small boobs on dolls. And I have noticed the general views on thinner dolls and big chested dolls on DoA as well when they're being discussed in the debate threads. It is pretty sad.

 

I loved the AD body's old bewbs! I have one, and I think they're one of my favorite sculpts in that area actually. The new one... eh, it just didn't grab me on any level. I applaud them for expanding the available options, but I like the old body better, between the two. It's a really nice athletic shape -- big shoulders, smaller bust, no corsety waist dip... it's a great body for a lot of character types that I think we haven't seen much of from the companies before.

 

Agreed completely. It's my favorite body on the market, actually.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this.

 

I definitely have to agree with you! It makes the dolls more interesting to me. Having tiny imperfections make them more relatable to us, I think. It definitely turns the doll into a more unique and uncommon work of art!

 

*completely agrees with Surreality* I just don't get why women have this tendency to bash other women based on what they themselves don't have. Things like, 'Big boobs are trashy, thin people need a cheeseburger', and the whole crap about 'real women', as if women with a size 2 are not 'real'..women come in many sizes and shapes, and so do the dolls(although not as many as human women because they are a fantasy of the sculptor). I don't see why you can't just get the dolls with the figures you like and just..not buy what you don't like. There's no need to feel insecure about their bodies or compare them to humans.

Personally, I love both the big and the small boobs XD I have a Ariadoll D cup girl, who has a nice stack o' wood in front of her, plus I want a Dollfie dream girl who's breasts are well..humoungous, but I also have a Zaoll who has very cute small breasts, and I plan for a SD10 girl who has almost nothing. Variety is fun!

 

I don't disagree with the points you made, and while I wouldn't call it bashing, I have seen quite a depressing number of posts in the GD thread 'Which do you prefer-large or small breasts' of people claiming they don't like small breasts based on the fact that they want their dolls to look mature. And this, is extremely hurtful as it implies a grown woman who happens to have small or no breasts is not mature, that she will forever look like a child and she has no sense of adult sexuality. Maybe this is one of those situations where you don't notice the bashing unless you personally feel it's directed your way?

Anyway, I'm not saying I disagree with your post since I think you make very good points, but I DO think saying a female sculpt with small breasts making her look like a child and immature is on the same level of bashing as saying too large of breasts is slutty.

 

I see the point you're making, and I think there's definitely something to it, but I don't entirely agree -- but here's why. The posts I've seen there, at least, talk about physical development without value judgments or shaming language; they talk about developmental markers rather than personality traits/elements of personality/character. While that can definitely have the read you're describing, it doesn't inherently make the same kind of negative value judgment as 'slutty' or 'trashy' or similar comments. It's one that can go either way -- for instance, by that yardstick, with that read on things, I would have been 'a mature sexual woman' or 'old' by age 11. (Shudder along with me there, the very thought makes me cringey. )

With female dolls, 'breast size' seems to be used a lot as a big marker of age -- especially with heavily stylized sculpts, which by default often look very youthful, doubly so in the case of females. I don't think bewbs are proper or sensible code for 'adult' or 'maturity' any more than they are anything else, but I can see that kind of discussion being more judgmentally neutral than shaming terms are by their very nature. If they meant 'immature' in the sense of 'behaves like a spoiled child', absolutely I'd agree 100% -- but I don't get the impression that's the way 'maturity' is being used in that context. Again, I think it's dumb visual shorthand -- just like the rest -- but it doesn't seem to be directed toward the same end: creating shame for having, or liking, a physical trait.

 

This! And it all comes down to what one person desires. When I talk about thin dolls I don't refer to them as unnaturally thin, I just refer to them as super thin. People are so varied in real life, doll body variation is fascinating too. I have average sized boobs and a huge rear end, and I find myself pitying dolls with too much junk in the trunk. So in that sense, I can see people wanting to relate to dolls via characteristics they share- perhaps too much acne or chest hair or nose hair or whatever. I think it's silly to go about judging other people or dissing on boobs or lack thereof (though I have been guilty in the past of not understanding the obsession with flat as a board boobed dolls). I'm a woman. I have boobs. I love boobs. I want my womanly dolls to have boobs too and not need a bra to achieve the right effect. So make 'em look implanted, if that's what it takes.

I guess what I'm trying to say is beauty and flaws are matters of perspective, and if you're a good writer or a good character creator, you don't need to depend on the physical appearance to convey that character.

 

Oh, and on the immaturity maturity thing, there's more to physical maturity than boobs. Look at fairylands small, cutie, and large boobs-- no matter the boob size, the entire body is mature. Same with Iplehouse. On many dolls the actual body looks immature.

 

Well, I have seen a thread asking what size breast do people prefer. Almost all of the people saying they prefer smaller breasts (which wasn't a lot) said they preferred them for CHILD characters. I saw quite a few posts talking about small breasts as somehow equaling a child in their minds. I found this somewhat... upsetting, since I have small breasts, and while I am childish in spirit, I am certainly not any less a sexually mature woman. Over and over again I saw posts saying that sexually mature woman = large breasts. Child = small breasts.

While I can understand your frustration at the insults directed towards large breasted dolls (which, quite frankly, are usually marketed as being sexier in spirit, I have rarely seen a larger breasted doll that was marketed as not be "sexy," but just another aspect of the sculpt. For instance, you'll notice that the larger breasted dolls often show off more cleavage, and are dressed sexier. So, it's not just the larger breasts that might be off-putting to some people when it comes to those dolls. But how they are also dressed in a more provocative manner in combination with the larger breasts).

I don't really want to turn this thread into a debate about doll (or human) breast sizes. But generally, big breasts, while they are given the bad and unwarranted reputation of making someone (or something in this instance) slutty, they are also considered vastly more preferable to have.

Also, it isn't really a "male gaze" sort of thing as many WOMEN also state they prefer bigger breasts. And again, that thread showed that more people, and let's face it most of the people in this hobby are women, preferred larger breasts. I don't know how a preference for larger breasts has been debunked. I quite frankly have never seen that. But have personally seen much of the exact opposite. People proudly showing off websites they favorited of women with gigantic, photoshopped, larger than their torso, breasts. Maybe it's just my different experiences? But I have always seen a preference for bigger than smaller.

I also notice a far bit of antagonism for stating that I vastly prefer a different thing. On a doll. I'm sorry?

Edit: YOU may not find those posts shaming, but I certainly do!

 

There is not any suggestion whatsoever that you don't have the right to your own preferences. (I've already said I like the whole range... everywhere this comes up, because I do.) You'll notice that nowhere do I say 'you're not allowed to think that' or 'your preference is ickypants and wrong-headed'. What I take offense to is the 'harsh minority' victimhood being claimed -- and that is precisely what prompted my post.

I really don't see 'that looks young' equating to 'that looks like a trashy whore'. Can both hurt? Absolutely! And I recognize that. I also think the 'bust size = physical maturity' code is utter bunk -- as I've already stated. But these statements really aren't the same, and pretending they are beyond the aforementioned commonality is disingenuous. There isn't a value judgment about someone's personal character in the former. There just isn't.

Personally, I'm not in the 'most desirable size' category either -- mine are, in fact, the size of my dang head. Each. Not bought on a table, either -- it's all nature's fault, and was that way when I was slim, too. *shakes a fist at her grancestors* Finding clothes has been a hilarious horror since I was a preteen. Only in porn is that considered a good thing, and, needless to say, that isn't how I make my living. So I'm not talking from a position of, er, 'bewb privilege' here, if there is such a thing.

 

Try actually buying clothing that fits when you have larger than a B or C cup. It's a JOKE. Clothing manufacturers design for and create clothes almost entirely for women with average or smaller chests. You can't walk into a Victoria's Secret and buy any of the actually pretty bras over a C cup. It used to be pretty demoralizing to learn my options were beige and white, black if I was lucky. While you hear talk about how bigger is preferred in real life, it's always been my experience that most stores cater to those of average or smaller size. I have never seen a stranger walk up to one of my small breasted friends and call them derogatory names based on their breasts, but it's happened plenty of times to me, never mind the people who think once your boobs are over a certain size, it's perfectly ok to touch them. I have to agree with surreality that I don't think saying someone's body looks immature or even not sexy because they have small breasts is as shaming as saying she must be a trashy slut because her boobs are big. I once was told I was dressing too sexy back when I was student teaching because I was wearing a turtleneck and a pair of slacks. And you know, so what if someone has implants? That also doesn't immediately make her a bimbo or a slut, and lord knows I've seen that brought up whenever someone says a doll looks like it has implants.

I'm an adult now and refuse to let my breasts hinder my positive self image, though I will be forever jealous of anyone who has the luxury of being able to choose not to wear a bra, but it can be a struggle to get there. I like boobs, I like them big on dolls. But you know, I own a doll who is as flat as a board. She's an adult bodied doll with absolutely no breasts. I love her because her chest is perfect for her and beautifully sculpted.

It all really boils down to buy what you like, let others buy what they like, get over it?