Celebrity Dolls - Are they fair/legal?

Here's the general gist of the debate: How do you feel about celebrity dolls in general? Do you think of them as respectable tributes to their namesake or are they just unoriginal? Do you doubt the creativity of people who own many, or all, celebrity dolls?
Okay, let's start off...hmm...Well, I came into this hobby wanting to see what people could do with existing molds, and it amazed me how much variety came into face-ups, clothing styles, and even the changeability of parts to make something new. But then a number of "fan dolls" came in, and some looked decent, but after a while, it just seemed that this was another form of fanart (except much more expensive). If an owner has one or two celebrity dolls out of the numbers of original dolls they have, then I'd think, well, they can be fans of them, so why not? But when that's all the owner has...then I doubt their originality a lot.

What are the practical uses of a celebrity doll? If you have/want one, what do/would you do with it? Is it simply for your own devices (display, private collection, etc.) or do you actively make that doll into a character? If it is a character, do you keep true to the celebrity or do you bend/change characteristics to suit your preferences?
Now, I would feel weird to have a celebrity doll and not change some things about him/her, but that's just me. I would like to have a MiniMee of Dante (from Devil May Cry lol), but I know that there might be some things I'll retain, but some aspects of him I might need to change.

If you like the idea of celebrity dolls, do you think that they have more value when you modify and customize them yourself or buy them pre-sculpted or as completely finished sets?
Well, I think this is the problem that will arise with celebrity dolls soon enough. It's a cool idea now, but later? I don't think anyone is going to challenge themselves in making his/her own doll, and instead just order exactly what they want off a doll site. I feel that it destroys part of what this hobby is about.

In the case of the Minimee dolls, what are your thoughts on their change in policy when it comes to celebrity moulds? (They didn't allow them at first, but have recently allowed them in sets limited to 10, for those who don't know).
Good on occassion, not good every time.

At what point, if any, do you believe that royalties should be awarded to the celebrities? Are small quantities okay, while large aren't; or do you think that any amount is acceptable? Is a personally modified one of a kind doll more acceptable in this regard then a professionally sculpted one?
I dunno about royalties, but answering the second part of the question, I think a person would made their own celebrity doll (there's an amazing Marylin Manson doll here on the forums DX so amazing) would be more acceptable.

What are your views on the popularity of professionally sculpted dolls versus the personally modified ones? Do you think that celebrity dolls being so accessible will eventually affect the amount of artists who create their own one of a kind celebrity dolls?
Yes.

 

Someone mentioned early on that they felt celebrity/character dolls are more or less extremely expensive pieces of fanart.

Reading through everything else, that's prettymuch the only statement that sticks out in my mind. I agree with it. It's a fandom pursuit, something for personal satisfaction. I'm not really sure where people are thinking that someone has to be 'omg original!!1!1' all the time, or that it's a bad thing if someone isn't.

Excluding the case of Minimees, customizing a doll to represent X celebrity isn't really problematic. It's just another fan pursuit, like people to make their own dolls of celebrities, or puppets, or pictures. If you make it for yourself, it shouldn't be any trouble. If you make them to sell to other people, you're going to be on risky ground because you're selling something you don't have license to. Generally this just isn't a big deal, though, but it gives the actual license holders the right to send a C&D notice.

 

I'm wondering, after reading through, which part of the celebrity dolls do people find 'unoriginal' or reflective of someones creativity or lack there-of?

Basically the dolls sculpts are modded of the image of a person who due to circumstances is considered a celebrity, right? But wouldn't you think most dolls are derived from other aesthetically pleasing humans?

I don't think there is any lack of originality or creativity where the dolls image (ie. clothing, face-up, etc.) are concerned. Theres a great amount of skill involved in re-creating and outfit in 1/3 or 1/4 size. Sometimes even smaller. Same goes for wigs.
And if there is a lack of originality in re-creating a celebrities clothes, then there would also be in those whose dolls are dressed in lolita or goth. So is it just that the doll is not cosplaying the celebrity but actually meant to be an image of the celebrity.

Then in the case of character. No one could possibly know enough about the celebrity to imitate their personality and from what I know of dolls they generate their own personality traits in any case, whether you want them to or not.

So where, exactly does the 'my non celebrity doll is more original than yours, etc' come from. Is it just that you don't know anyone in the several billion people in the world that look like your doll, or that you do know of someone who happens to earn a lot of money for their image and abilities that looks like their doll?

Sorry if it's a bit long winded, I'm just trying to get my head around the concept. And personally, I'd love a Miku Minimee. ^^

 

Here's the general gist of the debate: How do you feel about celebrity dolls in general? Do you think of them as respectable tributes to their namesake or are they just unoriginal? Do you doubt the creativity of people who own many, or all, celebrity dolls?

I have a celebrity doll. I wanted such doll for 13 years and I consider it as a tribute to the celebrity. I do not doubt anyone's creativity - why should we, anyway? It might be a different character portrayed by this very celebrity (like in the movies, people hire an actor to portray someone, why not doing this with dolls?) You change the wig, clothes, eyes and accessories, and it's a completely different character bearing only slight similarity. But it takes creativity to bring that out.

What are the practical uses of a celebrity doll? If you have/want one, what do/would you do with it? Is it simply for your own devices (display, private collection, etc.) or do you actively make that doll into a character? If it is a character, do you keep true to the celebrity or do you bend/change characteristics to suit your preferences?

Practical use of a doll? This question might as well apply to any other doll. I want it to play with It's a sort of a companion to me. Besides, I like sewing, and this very celebrity has very complex costumes to make, so that's a challenge for me too. I would not sell him, no way - he's just for my private collection. I have also made up a character who has the same facial features as this celebrity, I only change his wig, eyes and clothes, and it turns a completely different doll. Again, like an actor playing in a movie. As I cannot possibly be sure as to what exactly this celebrity is like in real life, of course my doll has different characteristics, bearing only slight similarity to the live person he was made from.

If you like the idea of celebrity dolls, do you think that they have more value when you modify and customize them yourself or buy them pre-sculpted or as completely finished sets?

I understand it so that if there is more than just one doll made, the production seems like a mass one. If you customize it, you take time, personal skills and your own creativity to change a doll and make it look like a celebrity. I think this should be valued more, perhaps even not due to the price of materials or the time you took to do it, but more due to the feelings you put into it (as I understand, you cannot just sit and make any celebrity doll, you have to have a "crush" on him or her to make the doll as realistic as possible). And if there's more than 10 dolls out there - you only spend time to create a mold (which is not easy at all, but still helps the process afterwards) and a dressing pattern, and then everything is done automatically.

In the case of the Minimee dolls, what are your thoughts on their change in policy when it comes to celebrity moulds? (They didn't allow them at first, but have recently allowed them in sets limited to 10, for those who don't know).

I can't be sure as to what I feel about this. On one hand, this seems right because there is a need to make the project exclusive and keep it up. On the other hand - so many people want a dream doll, and if the particular mold is already closed, there would be so much frustration. But I guess that from the legal point of view, this is only natural - to make this limited, so that noone can go and sue.


What are your views on the popularity of professionally sculpted dolls versus the personally modified ones? Do you think that celebrity dolls being so accessible will eventually affect the amount of artists who create their own one of a kind celebrity dolls?

Personally, I am no artist. I could make an outfit, but that's it. I cannot modify a doll myself, even if I wanted to. So I am happy someone already did that and gave me a chance to get it. As to the accessibility - if the dolls are limited up to 10 pieces each, I don't think there should be a problem for other artists, they might do something entirely different with the same character, and most of those works are truly unique. There will always be someone who's willing to buy that

One more point about royalties: Aren't those stars getting enough money to ask for pennies made out of BJD celebs? If it's not a mass production, they should not even bother. Another thing is, that if a manufacturer wants a mass production (over 10 pieces), then something needs to be done, but that's a legal matter and I am no expert in that, besides, we have a completely different copyright law in Russia and Ukraine, so I won't talk about it.

 

I checked to see if this had been addressed, but if I missed it and am repeating something, sorry!

On the issue of Japanese celebs; it actually depends largely on the agency. My Minimee of Ohno Satoshi from Arashi is actually probably less kosher merely because his agency is Johnny's Entertainment, and JE is HIGHLY protective of their images. A Johnny (as they are called) cannot be pictured without express permission from the company, leading to odd things. For example, Matsumoto Jun played a lead in the drama 'Hana Yori Dango', but on the show website, the manga character from the original was pictured instead of him, the actor. Why? Because JE doesn't allow pictures to be on the internet.

Obviously, this is ridiculously hard to enforce and generally ignored by the fandom across the globe. But it means that while having a doll of a Johnny might be okay, putting pictures of him probably isn't. Johnny's rules aren't copyright LAW, of course, but it does serve to show there's variation within a country.

 

I personally view the celeb dolls as a sort of fan art of the characters, to me it seems like taking and drawing an anime character in your own style and making them pose and look the way you want

The dolls are the same, everyone sees the celebrities in different ways, I think that some celebs would be mad at the idea, but I think most will feel honered that there are fans out there who love them so much that they want a toy of them.

I am waiting on 3 heads, Matsumoto Jun and Kamenashi Kazuya. I plan to make Kazuya into a character based on a character he acted in a drama. I am also getting 2 of Jun
I plan on keeping a normal skin Jun as a person who looks like MatsuJun but because I do not know how Matsujun is in reality he will be only Matsujun visually but personality will be different
The white skin Jun will be a non human being that decided to change his apperance to look like the first Jun, but has non human features and an original personality...(if that makes any sence)

Therefor while my boys will look like the celebs they will be fan characters, their names will also not be the same as the celebs that they are based on.

 

A brief moment of levity in an otherwise serious discussion...

When I first saw the title of this thread I thought "Good Lord who would want to eat their doll?!?"

ok...back to the discussion...

 

Well...I don't think having dolls that look like a celebrity is BAD. (I'd be quite willing to buy one, but that's TOO into the future seeing how I'm still saving up for my own little whatshisface... XD)
I'm not familiar with laws, so...I can't say much on that.
But my own personal opinion..is very hypocritical, I think.
I would like a doll that would be my favorite band-member or my own character etc (glitter effect?), but I feel having millions of dolls that look like very known celebrities sort of takes the glitter off the celebrity/minimee dolls.
>_< Maybe my opinion will change after a while, but RIGHT NOW it is that.

 

Well i dont want one myself, But it still is creative but not in the same way. Seems you would have to research the celebrity and try to mimick there look. Also the wardrobe seems it would be limited. I dont mind others who have one though

 

Here's the general gist of the debate: How do you feel about celebrity dolls in general? Do you think of them as respectable tributes to their namesake or are they just unoriginal? Do you doubt the creativity of people who own many, or all, celebrity dolls?

As far as celebrity dolls go, if someone wants one or many, it's really up to them. People (hopefully) buy dolls for themselves and for their own happiness, and not for someone else's, so I don't really see the harm in wanting your doll that you pay lots of money for to look however you want it to. Celebrity dolls don't make me think any less of people who want/own them, but I will agree that it does make it a bit more difficult to be really creative when picking out an emerging personality. My first doll was based off Komatsu Nana (Hachi) from Yazawa Ai's NANA manga, and I do notice that I tend to keep everything about her in strict terms of how she is in the series. That kind of limits the possibilities, I think.

What are the practical uses of a celebrity doll? If you have/want one, what do/would you do with it? Is it simply for your own devices (display, private collection, etc.) or do you actively make that doll into a character? If it is a character, do you keep true to the celebrity or do you bend/change characteristics to suit your preferences?

Once again, I think it just depends on the person. If they truly feel attached to a certain celebrity, then I see the possession of a celebrity doll as almost a certain homage to that particular celebrity. Let's face it, those custom heads aren't cheap! I have a friend who had a couple celebrity heads, but she did tell me once that she didn't feel as closely bonded to them as she wanted. I think that was due in large part to the fact that she couldn't get over that they were "real people," and none of her input was needed to create and mould them into characters. Our own influences are put into the dolls we buy, but if you have one in the image of a person who already exists I think it's harder to grow attached to it because you've had to do nothing more for it than give it eyes, a wig, a painted face, and clothes.

I think she is selling the majority of them, but the one she is keeping she has decided to make a different character for.


At what point, if any, do you believe that royalties should be awarded to the celebrities? Are small quantities okay, while large aren't; or do you think that any amount is acceptable? Is a personally modified one of a kind doll more acceptable in this regard then a professionally sculpted one?

Personally... I think as long as it's kept to a small quantity of custom heads per celebrity, I don't think the actual celebs themselves should receive royalties. These people are highly public figures and I think having a doll made in the image of someone is no different than having their picture openly distributed in the free press and on the Internet. Obviously if someone is exploiting their image for the sake of making huge bucks off doll heads, I think something should be done to stop it. But in general, what does having a celebrity doll head hurt? It's just someone's own personal fandom, and I don't think they should be looked down upon or judged based off preference.

 

The ONLY celebrity doll that I would even CONSIDER would be either Davey Havok or Hyde (for a tribute to a wonderful guy).

I prefer making up characters/personallities for my dolls.

I mean,really,what could/would you do with a celebrity doll?

You couldn't change their wig/eyes or it would look like a screwed up version of them.
They would most likely just sit on a shelf and collect dust.
It wouldn't be as fun to take photos of them.

But thats just my opinion,I love original characters.

I'm sorry if this offended anyone.

 

Being in a group order for a minimee head has gotten me thinking about this topic.

I see nothing wrong with wanting a celebrity head--it's another activity for fans same as writing fan fiction, creating fan art, buying related collectables etc. While orginality and creativity have always been a big part of the hobby, I hate to see it turned into a competition of 'I'm more original than you!' . People need to do what makes them happy, not what other hobbyists think they should do. Buying a minimee head does take out the need to mod a different head, however there is still the faceup, clothes, eyes, wigs and other accessories or props to consider.

Creativity also doesn't end when the doll is complete. What about the photoshoots, photostories, or works of fiction that the doll in question might inspire? Modding is great--I love to see well done mods and love the fact that bjds are made to be customized. However, modding isn't the be all and end all of the hobby. There's a whole world of doll related creative pursuits to take part in.

I'm not sure that I see a difference between the uses for a celeb doll and any other dolls. In the end the purpose of bjds is to make their owners happy.

I'm not going to go heavily into the royalty issue, because I don't know much about the laws that govern it. However, very small runs don't bother me personally. Now if a company was cracking out unlimited numbers of any given celeb, that might be a cause for concern.

 

lol. I could seriously see Davey as a doll....it would work. not only work, but be WICKED AWESOME!!!! lol forgive my AFI obsessive antics. I try to keep them caged, but darnet! they just won't be beaten!

 

How do you feel about celebrity dolls in general? I dont mind them, though they do sort of freak me out. They're extreemly realistic and often rather masculine-- while the main reasons I like bjds are because they arent realistic ((majority of the time)) while still being porportionaly correct ((in most aspects)), along with the fact that they're just so darn feminine ((even the masculine dolls!))

Do you think of them as respectable tributes to their namesake or are they just unoriginal? I think that, in the right hands, are respectable tributes to their namesake, but most of the time theyre not

Do you doubt the creativity of people who own many, or all, celebrity dolls? A little. I dont mean to offend anyone, but it would surely damper me if I had to keep a doll's fashion and look according to an actually existing person

What are the practical uses of a celebrity doll? In my opinion? Fangirl/boyism.

If you have/want one, what do/would you do with it? Well, mine would be, without a doubt in my mind, be of my own characters from my story theINVERSE. I had already planned on, one day, making the characters out of bjds, but now this makes it even easier on me ((the group orders make it even better, seeing how I have five sets of twins in my 47 character story)). Once I had them all, I would make an endless reel of photoshoots that would renact the story.

Is it simply for your own devices (display, private collection, etc.) or do you actively make that doll into a character? Any Minimee I would get would be specifically for a character I had made myself, so obviously I had already "actively" made the doll into a character

If it is a character, do you keep true to the celebrity or do you bend/change characteristics to suit your preferences? They wouldnt be of a celebrity, so this technically doesnt pertain to me. But the doll would coenside to the character's personality instead of becoming an entity of its own

Do you think that they have more value when you modify and customize them yourself or buy them pre-sculpted or as completely finished sets? It really depends on how good you are at modify them or how good they are as a complete set

What are your thoughts on their change in policy when it comes to celebrity moulds? (They didn't allow them at first, but have recently allowed them in sets limited to 10, for those who don't know). This is good for me, seeing how I want to have 5 sets of twins for my story. For other situations, though, I think its a little unoriginal/unjustifyable, while at the same time completely reasonable. Unoriginal/unjustifyable because there's only one of that person their made after, why should there be more than one of the doll? Then again, reasonable because why should you be the only one with that doll-- isnt that selfish?

Do you believe that royalties should be awarded to the celebrities? Yes, because the celebrity is basically being made a resin clone of themself, so even if its only like 10$, they can know how many little-thems are being carried around, and would be able to request them to no longer be made. And also because 'what of it was someone else's character?' I know that Id be angry if someone stole the character design of one of my characters and made a doll without my permission ((though Id be extreemly flattered at the same time lol))

Are small quantities okay, while large aren't; or do you think that any amount is acceptable? I dont really know about this one, so it'll be skipped

Is a personally modified one of a kind doll more acceptable in this regard then a professionally sculpted one? I suppose so, but at the same time I dont see the difference

What are your views on the popularity of professionally sculpted dolls versus the personally modified ones? I think that the professionally sculped dolls are a way for people who cant modify properly to get their own doll of someone they fangirl/boy over without the hassel of doing it themself

Do you think that celebrity dolls being so accessible will eventually affect the amount of artists who create their own one of a kind celebrity dolls? I think that they might increase on making one-of-a-kinds, but thats about it.

 

I think they are interesting but if I was the company making them I think I would be worried to be sued by the star that looks like the doll. I know that since they are famous their image sometimes because public so that gives the right to companies to do that but ethically I dont think its right because you are making money off of someones face and not even giving them a cut. *shrug* just my 2 cents

 

Here's the general gist of the debate: How do you feel about celebrity dolls in general? Do you think of them as respectable tributes to their namesake or are they just unoriginal? Do you doubt the creativity of people who own many, or all, celebrity dolls?

I think they are novelty dolls, some look awesome, some are really funky looking. I wouldn't doubt someone's creativity over owning one - I really don't look at doll collectors (or any collector) as people that should feel they have to be creative and unique. It's something fun they do. Not really a vocation.

What are the practical uses of a celebrity doll? If you have/want one, what do/would you do with it? Is it simply for your own devices (display, private collection, etc.) or do you actively make that doll into a character? If it is a character, do you keep true to the celebrity or do you bend/change characteristics to suit your preferences?

Practical purposes? Well, that depends on what the person wants it for - to create a character that the celebrity played in a movie or they just happen to like what that celebrity looks like and they want a pretty/handsome doll.

If you like the idea of celebrity dolls, do you think that they have more value when you modify and customize them yourself or buy them pre-sculpted or as completely finished sets?

I think the value is in the end result, regardless of how you get there.


In the case of the Minimee dolls, what are your thoughts on their change in policy when it comes to celebrity moulds? (They didn't allow them at first, but have recently allowed them in sets limited to 10, for those who don't know).

I don't really care what they do with them. It's great for the people that want celebrity dolls, but because I just collect mini's it doesn't affect me.

What are your views on the popularity of professionally sculpted dolls versus the personally modified ones? Do you think that celebrity dolls being so accessible will eventually affect the amount of artists who create their own one of a kind celebrity dolls?

If an artist creates a gorgeous doll, people will buy it regardless of whether or not celebrity mini-mes are more accessible or not, so I don't see how the popularity of mini-me's will affect doll artists.

 

My own opinions on this matter...

I don't mind the celebrity dolls, but I don't think I would ever own one.. Even though the Hugh Jackman MiniMee thread in the Incoming sub-forum was really tempting for about 10minutes... Haha!

I don't doubt the creativity of people who own the sculpts.. Take Sabriell, for example, she owns quite a few celebrity heads, but she puts her own interesting twists on each mold.

And while I really love the Minimee Project, mainly because I'm a HUGE fan of realistic sculpts and I love looking at new molds as they come out, I still don't think I would ever come to owning one. It might be because of the small nagging feeling in the back of my mind reminding me about legalities all the time.. >.>

Also, being an artist myself, I like doing most of the work to existing molds, be it mods or faceups, to turn them into the characters I want them to portray.. I find that getting a celebrity head defeats that purpose, unless I have intent to mod the head.. But if I did have those intentions, I wouldn't be getting a celebrity head in the first place..

Hmm.. Hope i'm making sense, but that is all I have for this topic.