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Company's taking costume ideas?

Jan 2, 2010

    1. Please note I no longer check this thread. Therefore if you are going to reply, please do so as a general statement and not directly towards me. Thank you.

      Not sure if someone has already made a post on this, feel free to delete it if so.

      Anyway I like to browse company clothes just to oogle over pretty things. I'm also a fan of Kuroshitsuji. (Not a shocker I know) regardless I have come across more then one company taking the outfits from kuroshitsuji, altering them a little and then selling them for 80+ dollars. Now in retrospect I presume this is harmless. You have cosplayers who copy outfit designs and websites that make costumes for people by copying pictures and then selling them for money.

      I think the reason it bothers me is because the companies act as if they thought up the entire outfit themselves. They give it their own name and then sell it as an original with no credit to anyone but themselves. I'm not sure if they do this with other graphic novels but I wouldn't be surprised.

      Do you think it's wrong for the companies to do this? Would you want some credit if your designs if you were in this situation? I guess i can back this up with some pictures if its needed. Feel free to share others if you have found them.

      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      Angell-Studio

      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      [​IMG]

      Luts

      I'm not trying to offend anyone or be anal about anything. I'm just looking to see how people feel about this, especially if your the artist. Thanks!
       
    2. WOOOOOOOW.. O___O the similarities are incredible! I would certainly be offended if someone was stealing my ideas without giving credit. I think someone should inform the author/artist. Surely they have copyrights.
       
    3. I also noted the dress the one that Ceil were's it's on dollmore...I mean they give some sorta credit...but these...wow the semelaritys!

      I would honestly be offened if they took my ideas...and turned it one of there own i made it up ideas...
       
    4. Sumari: I suppose, but how far would a copyright go. Sure it will protect your story and your characters but to be honest I don't know if you can really copyright a costume? Maybe you can I've never read far into Fashion, but you'll see a designer come out with something and then some copy brands follow no? Maybe it's the same as that?

      Vince_Twilight: Yes. I agree with you and Sumari. I would be offended as well with no credit. But I wonder where the copyrights draw the line.
       
    5. I don't think that is fair at all unless they give credit the original designer....

      I would love to see more.
       
    6. Frankenstein'sBride: I'm relieved to see people feeling the same way I do. I was hoping I wasn't in the wrong for feeling this way. I would also love to see more. If anyone knows of any feel free to post about them or the images ^^
       
    7. This is true, but for outfits as dynamic and unique as those, I feel like some credit should be given. It's not some sweater off the rack. Perhaps copyrights do not limit the ability to recreate them, but I would assume that it would require some sort of representation of it's origin.
       
    8. How do you feel towards cosplayers then?
       
    9. just to add to another of the ciel costumes:
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
      [​IMG]
      from dollmore

      im not quite sure how i feel about this.
      im a cosplayer :/
      and while i can personally say that if i were to make this dress (and a girl in my cosplay group has) i would not be selling it to make money off of it and it would be for my use only. its also a sort of "rule of thumb" if you will that cosplayers certainly dont own the characters they are dressing up as. but there are people who commision costumes and would probably charge a whole lot more than what doll companies are charging.
       
    10. What there trying to say...is the outfit is clearly from that seires but there claming it as there own desing...

      Cosplays clearly state that it is not there idea...it bleongs to some one eals
       
    11. Okay, sorry, but the only one that isn't stretching it is the second one that does look fairly similar, however it's a really simple generic design that's easy to come up with again. The first and the third share as many similarities as any outfit designed with keeping the Victorian male fashion in mind, with perhaps the small exception of the similarity of pose, but it's like standing with a skull in your hand hasn't been done a million times before. In fact, I do believe that pose is very much copying Hamlet.

      I've got a couple of male Victorian characters who wear clothes pretty similar to those, but I'd be pretty offended if someone accused me of copying Kuroshitsuji outfits. I've made and researched Victorian era clothes. My outfits are inspired solely by that, and by modern male fashion.

      As for actual outfit copying (like a couple Dollmore outfits)... I dunno. If it's a really unique type of outfit that's made-up solely from the artist imagination and not influenced by any real clothes (and is easily recognizable as a particular character's trademark outfit...) then I don't think it's an okay thing to do. Otherwise, I don't have a particular leaning. I don't buy outfits based on a character's outfit because my dolls are my own characters and I would hate it if they looked like someone else's characters, but I don't really care if other people buy it. It's a doll outfit that would most likely sell no more than 100 pieces, and it does not infringe upon the domain of the original work of fiction. They'll never sell doll outfits anyways. I do think that they should credit the original outfit designers though; that way it's at least advertising for the real creators, and could be considered like fanart or doujinshi. If not, it's kind of sleazy.

      I designed a lot of outfits for my characters, because I try to make them as real as possible, and real people (that I would enjoy the company of, anyways) tend to wear different clothes. I really wouldn't care if a doll company went and took my designs. In fact, if done well, I'd rejoice because that would mean the doll world would finally have some nice, flattering male clothes for a change.
       
    12. I have to agree with Lelite- while the second outfit does look like it may be a copy, the first only shares stylistic similarities and the third is really not similar at all beyond them both being suits (presumably with shorts). Kuroshitsuji was not the inventor of gothic victorian, gothic aristocrat, kodona, etc fashions. These kinds of styles were around before the manga/anime existed and the it's likely the designers of outfits like these are looking at the same sources of inspiration as Kuroshitsuji's artist did, rather than at the manga/anime itself.

      As for direct cosplays and doll sized versions of designer clothing, it gets a little fuzzier, since they're making a profit off of it (costumes made by someone for themself and/or their doll I think of more like fanart- a legal grey area but usually more a show of apppreciation than theft, then again I've cosplayed myself so perhaps I'm biased). I guess there's also the question of whether there's a difference between someone who only makes doll costumes by commission request, someone who rents a table at Dolpa and sells small run or one-off costumes, and a person or company who makes larger runs of costumes and offers them up for sale. Where do you draw the line? They're all essentially doing the same thing, but I bet a lot of people would consider each case differently.

      Unless the original creator of an obviously copied outfit takes action against the company or individual (and creator opinion on fan works in general varies, obviously- some are flattered, some dislike it, others don't care much either way) there's not much we can really do aside from choosing not to buy them if it bothers us, or taking it a step further and boycotting the entire company.
       
    13. I completly agree with Frankenstein'sBride here. If a company is going to 'copy' an original design from an anime(and/or)manga, they should at least have permission from the original design/author themselves. If they don't have the permission they shouldn't be copying and selling, none the less not giving credit at all.
       
    14. This is how I feel about it. Some of those outfits look like carbon copies, and I can understand some people getting riled up about that, but many of them seem to be generic EGL/EGA/whatever with only some stylistic similarities. I don't feel that any of the examples referenced by the OP should be considered "copies." The first example is only very, very loosely connected to the supposedly "copied" design - they're both (different) EGA men's suits with bustles on them and top hats, and that's where the similarities end. The bustles aren't even the same design. The second example I am willing to concede has similarities in the design of the jacket - I wouldn't be surprised if the designer is a fan of Kuroshitsuji, but it's also entirely possible that both that outfit and the Kuroshitsuji outfit were inspired by something else entirely - but it's also a fairly common EGL/EGA jacket structure, and if it weren't for the color and the grommets on the sides, it would not be similar to the Kuroshitsuji design. And the rest of the outfit is not the same. As for the third example...well. It's a gray suit with burgundy or maroon contrasts/accents. There's NOTHING else about those two outfits that is similar (unless, perhaps, the Kuroshitsuji outfit includes shorts, which we cannot tell from the provided image).

      This feels to me very much like when people were bitching about how "Those Lord of the Rings movies stole the Orcs from Dungeons & Dragons!" Now, Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings trilogy was published in 1955 (and written between 1937 and 1949), while D&D was first published in 1974. Clearly Tolkien's use of Orcs predates D&D's use of them, but the people making those accusations weren't familiar enough with the history of the topic in question to know that. While some of those outfits (like the dress MissTink referenced) do seem to be very directly inspired by anime costumes, perhaps even to be direct (if slightly inaccurate) copies, most of them only suffer from being similar in style and color to those from the anime. And doubtless at least some of the outfits in the anime were themselves inspired by (or even copied from) outfits that had been designed by someone else.
       
    15. I agree with much of what has been said here, the issue would require a lot more research and weight of evidence for us to have any real conclusive proof. I was once accused of copying a design by another artist, when I had never even HEARD of them, nor they of me until a certain art show. On closer examination it was found that not only did the creation of my work predate theirs, but that we did not have the same inspiration for our work, but the artists we were inspired by DID. It is amazing what can come out when you look deeper into things. I will state that we do know some companies, and many tailors on the board do do work inspired directly from Jrock, Anime, Movies and the like. Hell back in the day people used to pull up Luts every time a new outfit was released and show how it was a copy of some Jrock performer.

      Also consider all of those wonderful military uniforms out there, tell me is anyone crediting Hugo Boss for them? (he designed the SS uniforms under the third Reich) Nope, sorry, once again this is a question of copy versus inspiration. Copying directly without credit for the purpose of profit is not on in my book, while deriving inspiration from something is. You only need to change a design by %20 to make it legally different, hell this is how many human clothing companies operate, see how they release "oscars red carpet" inspired dresses the day after the Oscars?

      Mind you...being a tailor I do state I prefer not to take cosplay comms, for two reasons, i do inspired by work, not copies, and cosplayers have a tendency to want things exactly matching the originals. Between differences in interpretation and personal ethics this bothers me a great deal and can lead to mutual dissatisfaction


      God I hope my lack of sleep rambling is making some sort of sense
       
    16. I think every custome, although in mangas, is 'designed'. If you ever saw Sakura Card Captor and the other 2 series (I think, they are some kind of trilogy), the custome is so GREAT and unique aaaan...no matter what, the design is their design...if it can create a profit to a company so the "designer" deserves some portion, too.

      I made the white Mokona by Clamp (creator of SCC, too) amigurumi long time ago. My original pattern BUT definitely not the character of Mokona itself. I don't and never sell the pattern as I respect Clamp...Someone once emailed me,"do you sell the pattern?"...i said, no...i also won't share it anywhere as someone may take it for granted and sell it for themselves...I guess, if 'someone' would like to offer me to purchase the pattern, it's gotta be Clamp themselves (^o^)'''...but I guess, that won't happen...so...mokona crochet pattern is just for me...

      I think this issue happens a lot not only in sewing for bjd only...but i also read that a 'respectable' person steal the 'BJDs photo' (and thus, face up and/or sculpt) of some pretty bjds. She makes money from it...and her 'work' even featured in a big company...i forgot, if i'm not mistaken, the company made it as a character in a game or something...The worse is: it was suspected that she didn't 'draw' or 'sketch it' herself, she edited the photos using a photo editing program......

      in sewing, i like designing everything myself...but it's quite envitable when it comes to basic clothes...for example: jeans pants...I mean the very basic style...I saw 2 seamstresses I admire most...their jeans pants...somehow quite 'similar'...why? because it's basically BASIC jeans pants...(^.^)'''...but for style as a whole: those seamstresses gave a different syle to their doll...like the blouse, or t-shirt, etc, etc...So, the whole look in the end is different...

      If the style that is stolen, so, although it's a little bit modified, some people may still feel,"hmmm...i saw this somewhere...hmmm???...aaaah!!!!! that manga!(or that anime!)" (Like, that luts outfit (^.<)...i won't accuse they 'stole' it...but...well, for some people especially the fan of the series, don't blame them if they quite catch up when see the style...if you see the detail: button, the thin blue ribbon...they were different...perhaps so the collar...but the whole style? bingoooo (^.^))

      @Effigy: You only need to change a design by %20 to make it legally different, hell this is how many human clothing companies operate, see how they release "oscars red carpet" inspired dresses the day after the Oscars?
      haha...this is so right...i remember...i saw this on E!, in the magazine...(^.^)''''...wellll...this is the real world!...we can be angry but we can't really stop it, eh?

      Looking at someone else design can open our own view (I was quite conservative one until i saw burda...I didn't know, jacket could be fun, working outfit can be chic and so girly) but doesn't mean I have to copycat the design, eh?...just absorb the spirit of it...There are also a lot of 'anime spirit' bjd outfit, eh?...like maid-custome?...i think maid custome is quite similar, though...
       
    17. Hehe yep, that is right Ninchan, and by absorbing the spirit of design and deriving inspiration that is how fashion evolves, things that look just enough different to be "new" and yet be accepted as non challenging or threatening to the masses
       
    18. Actually the third outfit you linked has nothing to do with Kuroshitsuji. Luts made that outfit for a Le Petit Prince theme and it's clearly credited in their "making diary" they sent with the dolls when that Junior Delf came out. I can scan the page if anyone wants me to^^

      Anyway I don't really have a personal opinion about supposedly copied clothes (especially since in most cases I just don't see more than a vague resemblance which can also be said to other outfits that actually came out before the anime/manga/whatever in question. We still don't accuse them of copying)

      But let me throw it out - when Angell Studio credited their source, they encountered a witch hunt that caused them to take two of their dolls off their site, even though the clothes in question weren't for sale, just for photography purposes (and no, it wasn't the mangaka that objected to the cosplay). Since then I've seen them surrepetitiously keeping quiet about their anime/manga inspired clothing. I think they are afraid to credit and find themselves in trouble again with raging fans.

      Though that doesn't change that they do make clothes inspired by manga/anime. Hell, I have their plush "mouse costume" that is so obviously a Totoro costume even I can see it (and I've never watched Totoro)
       
    19. All of them are copies to me and they shouldn't steal a creators ideas though the third one (green/brown button it is similar to Kuroshitsuji (i am a fan myself~) but that design (generally) has always been very unoriginal to me, because it feels very familiar to any show or drawing set in the victorian era.

      but the other 3 are definantly copies to me, especially the one with the dress and the other with the skull.
      They need to give credit
       
    20. As an alternate way of looking at it, it may be a marketing thing. If you advertise the outfit as being from something, you run the risk of people saying "I don't know/like that show", and thus not even really looking at it. I've never heard of the show, and obviously never would have picked up on the connection. I just see some interesting outfits. They aren't my style, but they may be someone's. But if they had a name attached that I didn't recognize, I doubt I'd even click the link.