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Constructive Criticism Where does one draw the line?

Aug 29, 2011

    1. Oh, I get that you didn't mean to advocate it -- no worries there. :) I was just saying that I actually tend to take that kind of writing in the insulting/nasty way, rather than everything typed out. It may be a generational thing; it's hard to tell. I know that when I see that stuff, I see red, and feel like someone couldn't even be bothered to spend the effort clicking a few extra keys. Conversely, someone who grew up with that might think someone typing like me is a ruler-slinging knuckle-cracker. ;)
       
    2. I agree. Not to mention that for someone who's native language isn't english, netspeak can sometimes be incredibly confusing. Personally I don't feel any desire to decypher a message someone sent me, if they - apparently - don't think it matters whether I understand them or not.

      EDIT: About the tone of a sentence... whenever I read back the replies I wrote and I see my icon, I get this mental image of me screaming in anger at the top of my lungs. Maybe I need to change it. Something with flowers and puppies will do.
       
    3. I know I sometimes use a lot of smilies. It is because I am so afraid people will interpret me as a snobby a-hole who looks down on others. I want to come across as friendly but firm. Honest but kind. Maybe that is why I chose a character who is usually cold and strong as my icon here. But in this picture he is smiling.
      Words are indeed so easy to misunderstand when you cannot hear the other persons voice.
      And at the same time, using tons of smilies can cause others to see you as not being serious or immature.
      It is a fine line to walk.
       
    4. I have to agree with a lot of others in this thread - I really prefer that people type out full words. I find netspeak very difficult to read -- even replacing 'you' with 'u' throws off the flow of what I'm trying to read. Perhaps this is somewhat of a generational thing? I am more likely to read someone's advice if it's written out properly where I don't have to struggle with it. Also, not to sound snotty, but it just comes off as seemingly more intelligent when a post is not written using netspeak -- by writing something out in it's entirety, it shows more effort and comes off as a more serious attempt at communication.

      As for tone, a netspeaky reply can still sound snarky and a fully written out post can have a gentle feel -- it's all in how you write.
       
    5. It's definitely a generational thing. My 16 year old nephew and his friends, and my nephew is a very intelligent young man who loves to write, always give me grief over the fact that I don't shorten things in text messages or tweets or other sorts of digital communication with them because it's old and fussy, and I am not supposed to be old or fussy.
       
    6. I have to agree with the people disliking netspeak. I do not mind if people are just being silly and speaking lolcats or something with their friends or on appropriate sites but if someone were to use it while critiquing my work I would have been annoyed. Sure, if you want to sound friendly and use the word kitteh instead of cat I am OK with it. But beyond that and I start to frown.
      It is hard to read, looks sloppy and it really does not save you that much time.
      It is the same in World of Warcraft. People shorten words there all the time. I get it if they are doing it while in battle but in the chat window? You have to use a lexicon to understand what all of it means. I cannot tell how many times I have had to look up abbreviations (not just there but on the internet as a whole and even when people have texted me) because I simply do not understand what the hell someone is trying to tell me.
      I guess I am just old and grumpy and don't get it. ;)
       
    7. @Nihmo I agree, smilies do soften your internet tone! Adding an "xD" or " ^^ " can really keep someone from getting the wrong idea.

      @Taco I'm not saying that it can't happen either way! It's just less likely in my own experience.

      Well now that you pointed it out, when I go to write a critique I do tend to make sure that all of my sentences are grammatically and punctually correct. After all, if you get something wrong the person is more likely to go like "well you got this wrong in your review so what do you know lah!!!" and then it devolves into arguing over grammar and who's right and basically everyone forgets the original point in the first place! xD

      It really is a matter of opinion as when I am getting a critique, I prefer it to be given in more relaxed way, you don't have to type extremely proper if you don't want to. If your typing style is to talk in 1337, slang, or what have you, it's alright with me. I'll just wince on the inside hahahaha.

      I don't know anyone who speaks in lolcat though o_o didn't even know people do that!
       
    8. This reminds me of an old Guild on World of warcraft, I used to be in. Usually when somebody is typing that way it does have a tendency to make them sound uneducated. Since a critique should have a lot of clarity, it's only common sense that one shouldn't really use net speak. It's hard enough for some people ( I'm talking about myself.) to explain something in a clear and concise manner. Why hinder ourselves further by messing with the clarity?

      Usually when I'm mad or serious will you see me type in that " Schoolmarm tone" as somebody quoted earlier in the debate.:|
       
    9. Personally, I would like critique when it is critique and not outright criticism. There needs to be a reason for what people say is wrong and critique should be something like, 'this is wrong and you can fix it by doing this." As opposed to, "This is wrong, that is wrong, it is all wrong." See what I mean? Also, people should just stop and think about whether they would want to hear what they are saying, but that is pretty much for everyone. I think my worst experience with 'constructive criticism' came from my worst art teacher ever. I say this because when I would ask for assistance on a project, she would simply take it and proceed to do it instead of instructing me on how to do it myself. This was not helpful and infuriated me. On one specific project we were supposed to take a part of our face, blow it up and make abstract art from it. I don't like abstract art, so I tried to enjoy it and started to actually have some fun with it. At one point she took it and changed a whole part I had done. When I was finished the "constructive criticism' I recieved was that it was 'too abstract' and that 'one part didn't look like the rest." To which I replied 'wtf?' and 'well, that's the part YOU did.' She didn't see my point somehow. See what I mean?
       
    10. If I don't have anything nice to say then I say nothing at all. I like looking at box opening threads but I often see dolls and wonder why anyone would buy something so hideous. I've looked around the commissions people are offering and sometimes I can't believe people would actually try to sell the things they're advertising. But I know people's tastes vary and everyone has feelings. So if there's something positive I can say, I say it, otherwise I just move on to another thread. With constructive criticism it's best to use gentle words like 'a bit' rather than 'too much.'
       
    11. I always believed a comment or point is constructive when it actually helps the person improve without additional harsh words and redundant speeches. The more you say the more likely you said something hurtful. Something short and simple is always the best, I believe.
       
    12. I normally hate ''constructive criticism'' because it always comes across as harsh and I very rarely ask for it. If someone ASKS, however... that's another story.

      I'd say the best way to handle it... is if the poster didn't ask for criticism, people should keep it to themselves. If they did ask, people should just do their best to word it in a happy helpful way, and it will be welcomed like that n.n
       
    13. In this art class my friend took in college, the professor actually Make You Say Something Bad about other students work. I guess it's to desensitize the students to negative comments and make them have a higher standard for achievement.

      I personally like it when people tell me what they like about my work and what they don't. But if you Don't Like Anything About it at all, don't comment. Isn't it Common Courtesy (right?) "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say it all." Beside, you'll just sound like a troll if you did that. Why waste any amount of time in life badmouth someone. =.=
       
    14. In my opinion the line is crossed when it's not constuctive but destructive.
      A good criticism states the good and bad sides of something objectively, in my opinion. With art (i.e dolls) you can do that, too. It also gives a reason for the criticism.
      Bad criticism often relies on personal opinions or goes into personal areas, be that either good or bad for the one who's work it's about. Usually there's no reason given for the criticism, either.
       
    15. (I'm not aiming this at you - I thought it'd be helpful to the general 'net population!)

      Actually, this is something most people get wrong. Informal doesn't mean net-speak or atrocious grammar/spelling. It just means using slang/collequisms, abbreviations (tv than television) and contractions (we're than we are).

      So, the next time someone sees a muppet say "but I'm being informal! I'm allowed to write badly!" you can correct them ;)
       
    16. Often in writing, the line between constructive critcism and over-critical comments can be stepped over. Partly, as Silk mentioned earlier, criticism can be based on the individual's opinion. It may be best to read over what the poster has put up... and if he/she has asked for criticism, read over the specifics of the request before putting up what one thinks. I usually reread whatever I post a couple of times to make sure that I do not offend anyone, particularly since people can misinterpret what is posted.

      I agree that it may be that using formal English (read: full sentences rather than 'netspeak') may sound more stilted. However, I believe that since DoA is an international forum, and there are non-native english speakers/users, making the effort to use full sentences means that someone is bothering to make herself/himself understood more easily since abbreviations/slang can be difficult to understand and more open to misinterpretation. Perhaps it's just me, but i actually find netspeak far more easily misunderstood than formal English. (Must be a generational thing -.-")

      However, when asking for critique, it must be noted that often, both wanted and unwanted criticism may be received. If I ask for a critique on something and someone tells me something that is supposed to help improve the situation in a way I don't like, but is plainly trying to offer some kind of help in her/his own way, although the criticism may be unwanted, I have to accept it and the sincerity behind the thought.
       
    17. Examples of what I believe are constructive and destructive (insulting, flaming, just plain mean) critique:

      =-=-=

      Constructive Criticism: I think the faceup on your doll could be improved by working on matching the eyebrows to each other a bit more evenly. It's a tricky business, but sometimes using a mirror or holding the doll's head upside down will help. The lips look nice and symmetrical, but I would use a softer color instead of bright red--maybe rose or even a pinkish mauve.

      Destructive Criticism: OMG WTF! I've seen better Sharpie faceups! Damn, you suck. A myopic lemur could do better. I am scarred for life by your lack of talent. GTFO of the hobby before you ruin any other dolls. Seriously.

      =-=-=

      Now, the latter example is extreme, I'll grant you. I don't know anyone on here who would be that crass, callous and just plain vicious. (Nor would I want to know them.) Still, careless words can cut as deeply as those meant to hurt someone, and it's important to work at being helpful when giving critique--point out what you see as problems in the work, and then suggest ways to fix it.

      If the work is just plain bad (and, sadly, I've seen those, too)...I have to admit, too often I take the coward's way out and don't say anything at all. I have no tact, and I'm the first to admit it. If someone insists on my opinions, I'll warn them that I won't be gentle and I won't be nice. In that case, they at least have been fairly warned. And even then, I try to make suggestions to help them improve.

      And if I end up hurting their feelings anyway, I feel guilty about it. But I can't just say "Oh, that's so beautiful!" when the work looks like it's been done by...well, by myopic lemurs.
       
    18. It all has to do with what you say and how you say it.

      I agree that net speak and horrible grammar are bad. If you can't properly type out the critique, I will generally ignore it and blow it off as a troll or kid just being rude. It isn't taken serious to me. It's not cute and it certainly doesn't make you look intelligent, IMO.

      A critique needs to point out the strong points and the weak. Tell the person what they did well. Even if it's just AWFUL, there has to be at least one strong point, even if its something like "that lip color is good" or "the brow color matches the wig nicely." When pointing out the bad "that's ugly" is not a critique. You need to be specific about what is wrong and how to fix it. If you don't know how to fix it, you really shouldn't be giving the critique in the first place. A critique should be done by a more experienced person to a less experienced person, not by someone who doesn't know anything about it. That would be like having someone who's never worn anything but sweatpants judge Project Runway. Um. no.

      Also, you should keep taste out of it. Just because one person thinks a bright pink faceup with shimmer and glitter and girly facial tattoos is a disaster doesn't mean that it can't be professionally done and be exactly what the artist was going for. I've been told my Robel's eye makeup is "too smudgy and not well blended"....but he's not a pretty glam boy, he's a strung out goth that sticks his finger in eye shadow and smears it on. It SHOULDN'T be pretty and perfect. Focus on technique, not if you like the doll or style.