Constructive Criticism Where does one draw the line?

I've had someone semi-critique one of my gallery threads before, or at least that's what it seemed like. It kind of irked me a little that this person had done so when I really just wanted to post things to see if people had a positive reaction towards them.

It then occurred to me that this person probably hasn't seen anything other than those photos, so I didn't respond, and I didn't let it affect me.

Also, I just thought of this: What if you genuinely don't see anything that needs to be addressed? What is the proper way to handle that?

 

This pretty much sums up my feelings regarding my participation on the forum in terms of critiques, too. It's just not one of my areas of expertise. (Those areas tend to keep me so crazy busy that there's little time to develop any, either! Argh.)

One of the other things that comes to mind is the idea of objective crit vs. more personal crit. I don't mean 'personal' in the sense of 'about the person', but in terms of knowing the person's skill levels -- if they're totally new to anything artistic, if they have any related skills, etc. I find that it can make a big difference; knowing someone has been at something for years and never improved a lick, I might have different advice than I would for someone who has the same objective result, but has gotten considerably better from where they started or from their previous attempt. That way, I'm able to say, 'keep going with X, it's showing much improvement from the previous version to this one, and if you continue to refine that, you should be able to get to your goal'. This can be very helpful, because it addresses the specific skills they're in the process of developing, and gives very active feedback they can use that specifically applies to them that might be easier to understand and process than 'I think the brows could be lighter in brush touch' or something more objectively general.

Being able to say, "The way you've lightened the brows in the second version shows a great improvement, I think you should continue with that," is not only easier on the ego, but they know what they did differently on their second try even if we can't quite tell, so they'll potentially have a better idea how to put the suggested change into practice. While it sounds dumb, a lot of the helpful advice that can be given about certain things can be as basic as 'if you hold the brush a little higher, you can get this effect... ' and so on that are going to be invisible to us. That's possible if you're watching someone work, but harder if you only see the end result.

It's also really hard to accomplish online among strangers, since you don't have a whole portfolio to scan through, and often don't have 'this was the first, this was the second, this was the third... ' to be able to provide that kind of information. (Some people post this way, but not all.)

 

I'm assuming they ask for crit in the first place? Then..... why did they ask for it? If you're happy with your work, why would you ask for crit? I guess my question to that is what's the fine line between happiness of your work and pushing yourself to do 'better'?

PunkyPhresh, was this so you could objectively analyse and criticise your own work? That would make sense for a business. And I suppose you can apply this to a commission too; if you fell in love with everything you did, you'd never sell/give back anything

 

writerm: I'm going to assume that by not seeing "anything that needs to be addressed" you mean nothing that needs work? In that case I'd either say nothing or be specific about what I liked and why I liked it. It's letting the artist know what they've "mastered." Maybe suggest another expression or ways to branch out? Like...nothing's wrong with painting delicate, pale, romantic faces, but scince they've "mastered" that it would be interesting to see them try a bold diva or edgy scene kid.

 

That reminds me of something that I see in some crit (and gallery) threads. Sometimes the original poster asks for criticism of a faceup or some other creative work (or in a gallery thread says something along the lines of "Isn't her/his new outfit wonderful?"), and while the faceup/outfit may indeed be awesome it's impossible to tell because the photo is blurry or the doll is posed in such a way that the face or outfit is obscured.

I think it's fairly natural for other posters to respond with photography or posing tips in those cases, because how can you give any tips (or in the gallery case, properly admire what they've directed your attention towards) without being able to see it? But I've seen several cases where the original poster objected to that ("I'm not looking for a critique of my photography!" and so on), even though the tips - which I wouldn't even call genuine criticism - are both meant helpfully and a result of a request (even if it's an indirect one).

 

Oh man, don't get me started You see people asking for face up crits, and most of it is covered by a wig! Especially when they ask for suggestions on the eyebrows (The reply is usually "I can't see one of 'em, but I assume it's the same as the other side?"). And as you've seen, the original poster objects because somehow they expect you to see through the wig and crit what you can't see.

That could be the takeaway lesson here; the artist needs to lay things out very clearly, because we haven't been watching every step by step like an invisible spirit. If you present things poorly, then you'll be received poorly. How do we know the artist has spent hours working on the eyebrows? How do we know that they're sensitive to crit? We don't unless they tell us. If you have to explain something to make someone understand, then it isn't clear enough. (Which reminds me of portfolios lol)

 

Bwahahaha!! Oh man, the "ladies of Star Trek effect" at work I guess! Soften the focus, soften the criticism? I wonder if that is the true intent, conscious or not. Because you can't offer a solid, helpful critique to something you can't really see. But it's unfair of the person seeking critique to offer up blurry or obscured photos. They just wasted the time of someone who could potentially help them, possibly turning them off to helping others. Whoops, I thought there wasn't anything in the guidelines about photos but there is. . . just not in nice bold type. What can I say, my hair got in my eyes and I missed it.

 

This was what I meant. I'm not good at critiquing art, which is why it's rare that I ever venture into that area, but sometimes I don't see anything wrong. Maybe it's because I just don't have an eye for it.

 

Hmmm... Usually when I have nothing useful to say (that means: most of the time, lol) besides "Looks fantastic!", I don't post. Not because I don't want people to know their work looks good, but in giving only that I always feel like I'm not contributing anything. Especially in forums where an "amazing!1!" is considered constructive advice, I'm afraid that my comment could open the floodgates of similar responses. If that happens, the thread has become useless and I doubt the OP would want that.

 

I feel similar, but only if I honestly don't have anything to add to it - like a suggestion to experiment in other styles, or keep practising to keep your skills up or something. Most of the time, people plateau when they don't experiment with what they're doing artistically (be it photography, or artisan crafts or faceup) so I try to say something along the lines of "Have you thought about experimenting in other styles or with other techniques as well?" as a suggestion.

For example, if someone does a face-up that I think is brilliant, but it's quite natural, I will tell them what I like in particular about the face up and I might suggest they try a glamour face up or a punk face up or some such to broaden their repotoire.

 

I've noticed people tend to be very quick to take things personally when they receive criticism. I guess it depends on the person though, but I have known really great artists, who would get upset if anyone made even the slightest negative comment like if someone comments: "oh i love it!! The only thing that probably needs work is... <insert here>". These types of artists would generally get really upset, even though the person said they love it, and need to defend their work or get a bit snappish.

I guess I can understand... when you aren't specifically looking for criticism, and your really proud of a work, you don't want any attention to be brought to what is wrong with it....

I guess that is where a site like this works well. You have areas to show your photos of your doll without criticism, and an area specifically for receiving it.

I imagine if you do post in the criticism section, you would have to expect negative criticism no matter what, since I think it is arrogant to believe that you work is perfect, I mean even a master artist who spends their whole life perfecting an art will have flaws in it. Having someone point them out doesn't devalue the work, it merely improves the next piece....

*i spoke mostly of art because i have no face-up experience, but imho its the same thing, face-ups, doll modifications and dressmakings are all just forms of art....

 

Honestly? I used to frequent conceptart.org, and when you see the kind of crit dished out and received there, you get a perspective on how to handle it better.

I think crit should draw the line when it becomes your own personal opinion on the subject. Such as, you don't like bright red lips so you think they should make them softer. Crit is there to point out the flaws so one can improve their work, you don't ask for crit unless you want to improve. I love getting crit on my works, but not everyone likes to have their stuff nitpicked. So it's really down to having manners and respect for both the one giving crit and receiving crit.

 

Okay, I'll be honest. On this forum I have been a little opinionated about people and their dolls, people have called me a snob, but honestly what I just saw a minute ago in a thread honestly makes me so sad and angry. There were dolls with such messy wigs and they looked like they've been treated so terrible, i wanted to PM that person and tell them how dare they mistreat their dolls so bad and post them on DOA for people to comment on, when there are people who are on here without and BJD's who want one so bad to treasure and love and they are treating theirs like garbage. But I wasn't sure if id get banned off the forum or something silly like that. Some people don't deserve to be in this hobby that's my opinion. I think i would like to tell so many people to clean up their act and treat their dolls with respect and not like a 3 year olds toy (which by the way I didn't even treat my toys like that when I was 3) but its just not acceptable in my eyes to have them presented in that way. If people want to call me a snob for looking after and caring for my dolls as if they were made out of gold then so be it.

 

Did they ask for crit? Did they ask for your opinion? Or are they just sharing images. These things are relevant.

For knowingly breaking the rules you agreed to when you joined? I'd sure hope so.

This? Has nothing to do with criticism -- especially the constructive kind, which isn't motivated by such blatant disdain, but instead by the desire to help someone genuinely improve. What you describe here has everything to do with bossing people around and shoving a 'my way or the highway' down the throats of all and sundry in a manner so dazzlingly arrogant that it makes me wonder what on earth makes you think you have any business setting rules for total strangers over which you have zero authority, moral or otherwise, no matter what a... remarkably mature three year old you may have been. They're just not the same thing at all.

No one is likely to ever call you a snob for how you treat your dolls. People likely will in droves when you start telling them how they MUST treat theirs in the world that exists only in your own mind. If you aren't smart or objective enough to tell the difference, well... that's where I run out of any constructive things to say.

(Well, beyond, 'thanks again for providing the example of the bad behavior everyone was looking to describe', so people can point out the difference, glaring as it is.)

 

Yes, a heartfelt thank you to Moemi18, for a beautifully thought out example of pure criticism without any hint of positivity.
Not an easy one to pull off, frankly!

If these errant owners and their messily wigged dolls irk you so much, do you not think a few carefully chosen words about how much their photos would be improved by, perhaps, teasing out the stray hairs before setting up the shot, might not help them along the way? Maybe wait until they ask for your opinion though, because those people shelled out a lot of their hard earned cash to buy those unkempt dolls and if dressing them like Worzel Gummidge is their thing, then so be it. A "deserving" would be BJD owner who hasn't saved up for a doll yet isn't being barred entry from this hobby by those who don't comb out their wigs!