Contentious doll names - gods and so on.

Thanks; I've had just enough experiences myself to be very respectful of entities. As for the "nobody worships X" part of your excellent post, I have a couple of Matron goddesses that have been with me for years: Athena and Ceridwen, the Welsh goddess of inspiration and initiation. Freya is on my altar as an ancestral deity, I meditate with a statue of Kwannon, and once I'm moved into my new place I hope to build an altar shelf to Hestia in the kitchen. I'm personally acquainted with followers of Diana/Artemis, the Irish "Great Queen" whose name I won't mention out loud, Brigid, Hecate, Cerunnos and (unless I'm misremembering) Thor. Asatru and other Reconstructionists tend to take their gods seriously and literally, at least in my limited experience with them, so any broad statement of Norse traditional religion being dead is not going to be well received!

 

Just to clarify...I haven't read through some of the posts, but I felt like completing my side of my view.

When studying the mythological gods etc. I tend to set them aside from gods that are still worshipped. To me that 'Zeus, Diana etc' is dead because they are fictional to me. Where as the Zeus and other gods that still may be worshipped are kept separate, even though they have the same name. The myth gods I work with are used for studying, forming stories, but the ones that are alive and worshipped are not used. I don't use any actual religious practices with them. What I meant was that the fictionally used ones placed in novels, studied in classes, are not at all associated with religious worship. We keep that out of our Classics studies, since we are talking about them in a historical and fictional sense. We don't them to faith. So they are just that- mythological gods taken from the dead Romans and Egyptians. I highly doubt anyone who worships Zeus considers him just a myth, so he is kept away from the myths I study and use.

To me the ancients are taken and placed into different contexts. Hope that makes sense but...to simplify, I have no desire to offend, but the 'dead' ones are the ones we use in our studies and stories, while the actual RELIGION is set aside and not touched.

If anyone believes in Wepwawet, I most certainly don't use him in a religious sense as one who believes him would. It's like he's a completely separate entity since he's fictional and myth, rather than any actual godly aspects.

I don't believe in these beings, but I keep them in historical context when working with them. That's why these names are dead to me, because they are empty, while people who believe in these gods have them full of meaning and faith in the actual gods.

If you can follow me since I'm a tad sleepy, good.^^' If not, I can try to clarify it a bit better later on.

 

I think if someone wants to take offense or wants to make something controversial they're going to find a way to do it. Naming traditions are a complicated thing and to take so called 'divine' names off the table would rule out names that people wouldn't even bat an eyelash at. To take this to a certain extreme, someone used the example of the name 'Catherine' well Catherine is the name shared by about twenty different saints but in the Catholic tradition children are typically named after saints and take on a second middle name from their patron saint. To say that any name from a religion that is still being followed is taboo would take away perfectly innocuous inoffensive names. Obviously some names are bigger hot buttons than others but I think this comes down to your own culture. If you have a tradition of using the names of divine figures to name your children or your pets it wouldn't make any difference to you if someone used it on a doll.
I also think you can't really eliminate certain names because a famous person evil or otherwise had that name. The example of Jack the Ripper has been used but plenty of people have the name Jack. Just because a first name is associated with someone doesn't mean that people will immediately jump to that conclusion when they hear the name.
I think people also need to acknowledge that these are in a sense manifestations of fictional characters. To chastise someone or take offense at a name they select for a character would be in a way to stifle their own creative process. Its very easy to take offense if you want to be offended but if you just acknowledge that it is a doll, and not real, you can't take it too seriously. Its name is important to the person that owns it and only them. To make it important enough for you to take offense is to make it more than what it is. If you don't like the name never look at the doll again and forget it. Its not Chuckie, its not going to follow you home at night. Things only really become truly controversial when someone decides to make a big deal about it.

Incidentally and somewhat off topic I had friends who named their cat Lucifer. It was more ironic than anything considering that the most evil thing he would do would be seek you out if you were wearing black pants and make sure to shed extra hard on them.

 

Perhaps it is just the effect of sleepiness (and I'm certainly no master of coherency when I'm tired! XD ), but - I really don't quite follow this point. As far as I understand neo-Paganism, it does involve the worship of what a non-believer would call a mythological god. Just because one is studying it from the point of a non-believer and calling it myth doesn't make it a different god, and I would certainly hope that someone who's worshipping a deity has done enough research to be familiar with the same myths and consider them a part of their religious tradition. (Although if they haven't - well, I'd be inclined to scoff a bit, but I'm agnostic myself and would rather not call them out on it. Their faith, their business.) If she's clear-eyed, sprung from the head of Zeus, and has a special place in her heart for Odysseus, I'd consider her Athene whether I believed she was real or not. XD

I think your overall point was just that since you don't believe in the mythological gods as real, you have a different perception of them than does someone who believes in their existence, and therefore you treat them differently, but - I don't know, the way you worded it was pretty unclear to me.

And my few pennies on the debate overall: I myself have no problems with pretty much any name one cares to give a doll (a doll named Hitler or Pol Pot or similar would give me pause, but - I've considered turning a Husky into Vlad Tsepes, so I wouldn't be casting any stones); I do think, however, that it's wise to keep in mind who might or might not be offended at the names you choose. Particularly if you live in a country where freedom of religion isn't the law, and giving a doll a taboo name could have more severe consequences than some dirty looks...

 

I will always name my dolls like they're my children.
Would you name your son after a greek god?
Yeah? Then go for it, and hopefully he has as much balls as you, lol.

 

I use that kind of method for naming my inanimate objects too. Granted, I think my children would get horribly insulted with names like what I like... especially the Arab names. The poor things will get racial profiled at the airport! And at school no one will ever spell their names right! Then when they turn 18, they'll run away and go get their names legally changed! </end wild imagination>

Anyhow... on the subject of naming dolls potentially sacrilegious names and other taboo names...

I guess I am kind of indifferent to the matter. I'm not going to call my dolls Hitler (actually... I'd be kind of amused if the doll in question would have a Hitler mustache... I'm easily amused and insensitive to some degree), Mohamed, Jesus, Kim Jung Il, or Zeus... but I wouldn't particularly care if someone else did (minus wanting to know if Hitler-doll has a mustache).

But as aforementioned, I'd name my doll something I'd want my hypothetical kids to have (I don't plan on ever having kids though. Kids cry, poop, whine, and drive me up the wall). So I guess everything is fair game to me as long as I can imagine a child with the name... I mean... I personally would object to the name Moonbeam (my dad has met some poor soul named Moonbeam...) more than the name Lucifer... Though my "hypothetical names for my hypothetical kid" name list is quite tiny... I honestly go more by "does it have a good ring to it?" than "what does it mean?" I'm completely arbitrary on what has a good ring to it or not... I mean, I will suddenly shove words into my vocabulary because I think they sound cool like "epiphany"

Actually... Epiphany would be a kind of cool name. I can actually imagine having a girl named Epiphany... Someone is going to hit me with a brick for having bad taste... But at least dolls don't having feelings to get hurt for having odd names (compared to the hypothetical kid situation I keep referencing)... I mean, if I do end up naming my doll some completely "unacceptable" name, I just need to be ready to put up with people telling me so. If I end up offending a group of Christians or a group of neoPagans or a group of... I don't know... Zero Punctuation fans, by naming my doll Jesus Hermes Yahtzee, I would either decide to put up with that group feeling bothered by me or change the name to save myself some trouble. I guess for me it is more "putting up with the annoyed" vs. "liking of the name" rather than any actual ethic or moral standard.

I hope I was somewhat coherent. I kind of overdo it with ellipses and my train of thought jumps the tracks a lot...

 

Anywho, I was sleepy. But I think you kind of got it. Now that I'm actually awake and done away with mid-terms, lets see if this is a bit better.

What I mean is, although the gods they worship are mythological, they are real gods to them. I don't believe them, but in order to respect people, I don't claim to use the names and gods in a context. I think anyone who believes them would be more insulted by them being called myths, rather than if I studied the concepts of those dead people (Romans, Egyptians) and be interested in those gods from a Classic students point of view of a ancient people (and their religion, even if they had the same named gods like Zeus and Ra like today). MY view on the mythological ('myth') gods is different than what believers would see, and would treat them as real, rather than entities that are studied in classics.

But yes, I have a different view of them than believers. I don't know about what people believe, but I imagine the Zeus they believe in is different than the Disney version that just treats them as strange, pastel colored characters.

EDIT: An example I think that would clarify this is that I love Ancient History. I love getting Anubis statues because he interests me from a historical perspective, as I love the Ancient Egyptian culture. A person who believes in Anubis today would not use those statues as a collection, but perhaps to place them in a place of worship etc.

Also, I'm still curious about the beliefs of the Ancients, and of people today. I know for a fact that many people who worship Wepwawet do NOT worship him the same as the past. He was a war god, and an 'opener of the ways' to the underworld, and later the Egyptians set him aside during a great era of confusion with their gods, and only had Anubis. While today people who worship mythological gods see him as a trickster and as a guide in the world. So if anyone is able to explain other roles, such as if Ra still is believed to be a sun god who controls the sun, that would be appreciated. ^^

 

Why? My Bambicrony Shy girl will be named Epiphany Anne, nickname Epi. It's the name of a very old character of mine and I think it suits her. And no, neither the character nor I am Christian. You can have a epiphany without it being divinely-related...what's the big deal?

 

I hang around too many people who hate my taste in names apparently... Most of my friends usually yell at me for terrible names... or spell them wrong... Sometimes talking about my characters is impossible! I'm not sure how one ends up spelling Aurus as Aeora, but some of my friends managed to butcher the name...

Epi! That's cute!

 

Sounds like you need better friends. If someone told me my doll's name was terrible, I'd simply say "Thanks for the input. How about them Dodgers?" Or if they were persistent and obnoxious, "If it makes you feel better, I've noted your virulent reaction. Who wants cake?"

*shakes head* But then again, my friends don't object to what I name MY toys that *I* paid for. I'm surprised yours do.

 

I get a lot of inspiration for my stories from mythology. I like taking legends or myths and putting my own goofy spin on them. I'm not trying to disrespect the original story or the people who believe in whichever religion... I'm just telling stories.

I personally think of dolls more as inanimate toys than my own children... I'm the one writing their stories and they're not going to get offended over weird names because they're just 3D representations of my writing. I'd never name my child "Hrist" (which just happens to be a name of one of my dolls as well as a Valkyrie in Norse legend) or "Chroma" (which is just a weird name I gave one of my colorful dolls)... but I can give those strange names to something that's a toy. ^_~

 

Thank you for the clarification, DarkRegrets! I believe I understand your point better now. n.n

 

No problem. ^_^ Glad you understand now! Being sleepy and over-worked influences ones ability to write.

 

Well, I'm a Heathen...
So I may name something in honor of a deity. But if it is not an animate creature it will not receive their direct namesake.

Ex:
I would maybe call a doll, weapon or something of that nature Odinsdottir or something similar.

Though I've named my cat, who I hand raised and has been my constant companion, Freya after Freyja. But she is a beloved living creature, not a cherished item.

 

I don't find 'jesus' an offensive name. I would assume that most of us use names that we like.

I have used the names Vincent (as in Van Gogh) and Michaelangelo (as in both the painter and the angel). I admire all three of these people. I'd be honored to have someone think I'm special enough to name a doll after me.

 

haha.
Yes, yes we do.
And
No, no it won't.

lmao.

Not to mention, The Aesir and Vanir are not exclusive to the Norse and Asatru. So any mention of the worship of them being dead... Is not going to be met well with... Oh, a good thirty plus various Heathen traditions.

 

Hmm.

I've read a lot of posts in here, and I have to say, I wouldn't name a doll directly after one of the gods I worship, I don't think I'd name one after another persons deity either.

My doll does however have a story making him a relation to one of my gods. I see that as just a homage to him.

BUT I wouldn't find it offencive if someone else named their doll, as long as they had a fair understanding of what they were useing. ^___^

 

I would never name a doll Jesus or anything like that because it would just feel wrong to me. I'm a Christian, and while I have no problem with other people naming their dolls that, I just couldn't do it. It would be too weird. I would also avoid the names Satan and Lucifer for the same reason. However, I have no problem with names from mythology or other religions. I guess it's just that I could never name anything with a name from my own religion (by this I'm not including names of saints or apostles; I have considered some of those names), though I don't find it offensive when others do.

 

It's a bit offensive to me I must say. I don't take it to heart too much but sometimes someone might just be being pretentious. I don't know, naming your doll Lucifer when he's really (in christianity) a force of intense evil really is a bit... I have no word for it that I can think of at the moment. I guess if you don't believe in any religion it won't matter to you and I don't really take it too seriously. Names like Hitler or others like that is just unnecessary. I don't see how it can be amusing in any way but that's my own opinion.

 

Hmm... I don't think naming a doll Lucifer would be bad, to me at least. The name Lucifer just feels more mythological to me, even if it's another name for Satan. (I wouldn't name a doll Satan, though o.O) Of course, if I named a doll Lucifer (as I have for a few characters...) I'd end up calling him Ol' Luci instead most of the time... >.>