Contentious doll names - gods and so on.

...and yet naming a teddybear Mohammed can get you 40 lashes. Yes, it is an interesting one.
I guess much of our discomfort with a doll named Jesus, (or Satan!?) is simply a worry that we'll cause offence with people who still hold those names in reverence. I suppose most people think it unlikely that naming a doll Loki will get them in trouble with believers in the old Norse gods, and as you pointed out, these old names have long since passed by way of recycled storytelling into common use, more and more diluted with each retelling.

 

I guess it depends. I'm planning a doll named Belial -- I've had the character for a long time, and it wasn't until I was surfing Wikipedia (starting off on one entry and clicking links, reading the linked article, then clicking another link...seeing where I ended up), that I found out about the name.

Personally, as I gave the character that name without knowing where the name was from (I thought I had just come up with it! ), it holds no significance to me other than being that character's name. If it offended someone, that'd be their own issue -- they could, of course, ignore the doll as they wished, and I certainly wouldn't be chasing them around with it or anything.

I'm not changing plans just on the off-chance that someone might be offended. As with many things, it's your doll to enjoy as you like -- you shouldn't have to worry about making sure everyone is content with every aspect of that doll.

EDIT: Realized my last two paragraphs strayed from the topic at hand and addressed offensiveness in general, so, revised:

Basically, a name is just a name to some people. You can't expect everyone to cater to your comfort levels, especially where religious figures are concerned. Your god(s), deities, saints, etc might not mean anything to people outside of that faith. While yes, a certain amount of respect is due, a name alone is really no big deal. A doll named Jesus is not glaringly offensive, as was said earlier -- a crucified Christ doll, however, is a totally different matter altogether.

 

I, personally, have no problem with dolls being named after religious figures. But different culture have different ideas ( like the whole Mohammed/Teddy Bear situation). I suppose old names would get you in less trouble than more modern day religious figures though?

 

Oddly enough, I'm reminded of my friend's niece, who demanded she be allowed to name her doll (a barbie, I think) "Satan Claire". The parents were not in favour as you can imagine, but the girl, who clearly wasn't aware of the significance of the name simply liked the sound.
I suppose my point is- even though to the girl the word "satan" had no meaning, it certainly did have meaning to the parents!
We're much less likely to run into people to whom names such as Loki and Odin have real and holy connotations than say, someone who would object to a doll named Mohammed- and while we personally may not feel there is anything wrong with calling a doll Satan, we should be aware that it is controversial.
As long as you're prepared to defend the name for the rest of eternity, and are comfortable with possibly causing offence, more power to you, I guess.

(The doll was finally named "Satanne Claire".)

 

One also has to take the international nature of BJDs into account. Since collectors are extremely likely to be dealing with other people from all over the world, it is certainly difficult to predict what kinds of names could be offensive to any single person.

I personally would not find offense in any name. I also try to think of this as going beyond deities. Would you be offended by a doll named after a famous and revered person? Would a doll named Gandhi, Ceasar, Guan Yu, or John Kennedy be offensive?

I say a doll can be named whatever his/her owner decides. Whether or not you want the possible backlash for naming a doll Gandhi is your own choice.

 

The line between the sacred and the profane is a moving target. It always has been... What would be out of line in a particular place or at a particular time (ie: Naming a pet "Satan" if you happen to live in a conservative Christian community, or a doll "Mohammed" in a similarly-minded Islamic one) is not necessarily problematic under *any and all* circumstances. There are very, very few human cultural universals, and you can't assume that what's correct... or insulting... to one group will be to all.

That means that there are no pat answers to what's acceptable and what isn't. You have to pay attention to the local customs of the people you're likely to interact with, and evaluate the pros and cons of using any particular name under your individual circumstances. Like someone mentioned upthread with the name Jesus, it might raise eyebrows for a reader in Birmingham, Alabama, but one in LA probably wouldn't give it a second thought... The source of the name is the same in either case, but the "typical" and "accepted" useage patterns are wildly different.

Where things get tricky is on a board like DoA, where users come from many different places, with many different ideas about what's fine and what's pushing it... I'm sure there are neo-pagans around who still consider Loki and Athena more than a couple of dusty figures out of dead mythologies.

So... What's to be done, then? You can't possibly cater to everyone's sensibilities given the sheer number of names in use that have sacred roots from one culture or another. For everyone who gets miffed about Jesus, there'll be another who gives the Hairy Eyeball to Gaia and Herne. It's one of the complications of diversity.

Personally, I suspect the only real answer is to show a little respect and tolerance on BOTH sides of the issue. If you're using a name that has origins in the divine... *any* divine... be thoughtful about it. Remember that you're using something with meaning, not just a random assortment of sounds. Likewise, if you're looking at a doll whose name tweaks your cultural comfort level, don't go into automatic "I'm Offended!"-mode. Remember that the person using that name didn't pick it to insult you or your faith. They did it because something about the name appealed to them.

This really is one of those places where cutting people a little slack is the key to harmony.

 

I've been involved in numerous Jungian art therapy processes - group processes - sculpting artdolls...and I have a personal theory about this use of....god/goddess/mythical/archetypal naming. I think that people who do that - name a doll (or perhaps another object, creature, etc..) Zeus, Satan, Belial, Pan, Eros, Shadow, or the like, are actually responding to a need of the psyche to fetishize an archetype, a myth, that speaks to them on a heart level. I believe they are trying to journey towards or away from that....archetype and what it symbolizes for them.

 

i'd have no problem at all naming a doll "Jesus" <-- pronounced in the biblical way, (aside from the fact that other names appeal to me more) because: Jesus wasn't his real name, it's just a westernised version of it, and therefore i don't consider it sacreligeous, given that it's not his name ^_^ and to be honest if he's up there i hardly think he's gonna strike anyone down over the name of a doll. the same with other names.

but i do consider it distasteful to name dolls after gods from a (still active) religion that i personally don't follow. i think that would be a little rude. it may seem to people like the deity in question is being mocked, when in fact the doll owner just likes the sound of the name.

i don't see an issue with old gods like bastet, horus etc. there won't be any ancient egyptians picketing on your doorstep ^_^

i suppose in the end doll is the property of its owner and as far as i'm concerned as long as they're not flaunting something blatantly designed to be offensive, they can do whatever the hell they like

 

Maybe it's because I'm a stubborn (insert colorful word of choice here), but the idea of having to defend the name doesn't bother me. A simple, "I just like the name, but I'm sorry if it offends you," can go far.

In cases like the little girl naming her doll Satan Claire, I don't see a problem. It was a name given innocently, and while it could cause awkward situations, it's not really anything that I personally would find upsetting as it doesn't hurt anyone. If the child is old enough to understand, by all means tell them why you're uncomfortable with the name. If they're not, it's best to just let it go.

Having taken the long road to get to my point, for me it goes both ways. I'd accept people giving me their uncensored opinions of a doll's name if it offended them, as long as they accepted my right to decide to keep that name.

 

I would agree with that, at least on some levels... but then my Sociological background is in Symbolic Interactionism. As old Mister Bulmer says, humans act toward things on the basis of the meanings they ascribe to them.

 

It's like the issue of giving dolls religious symbols (which I horribly derailed earlier by getting onto the topic of getting dolly dog tags. Sorry.) If it's treated with utmost respect, someone in this whole wide world might still be offended, but if you're not doing it to hurt them or be spiteful they lack a really valid case against you. As for the art quality of these dolls... even in their own time periods, alongside being revered gods and goddesses were still depicted, often quite provocatively without being blasphemous. Your statue might be smashed if you depict, say, a homely Aphrodite, but there was certain leeway. Now people are rather more... uptight. But if it's done without vindictive intent (such as, the painter really wasn't a great painter, or the sculptor neglected to take all their lessons) it isn't... sinful.


EDIT: Er, on the epic-poetry front, there's certain characters from the Iliad I'd doll the heck out of. But that's a different matter. Ah, high school humane letters. :: gets jumped on by people with degrees in literature ::

 

How about naming dolls after bad people- Example Charles Manson or Hitler. I think I would find those more offensive then naming a doll after a religious figure. I suppose because people that were hurt by these people are still alive. That is a more immediate threat.

 

Also a good point... Caligula, who was mentioned earlier, did some pretty terrible things, but they're so long past that no one has heard first-hand accounts from their grandparents about them. That makes a difference, I think. People who see that name now just tend to think, "Yeah, he was serious jerk." The reaction to Hitler's name would be... somewhat stronger, I suspect.

 

:: nod :: Caligula's exploits were rather exaggerated, but people would be less offended if you made an imaginary roman emperor than say, an imaginary modern dictator. Examples of that are fresh in people's minds, especially in the West. If someone made a doll named after or depicting Jesus, and cared for it meticulously and everything, we'd assume they were Christian, or at least liked the idea of him. If someone had a doll of say, a real life serial killer or war criminal, I'd be offended by the very thought of venerating them in that way. The thought of someone naming a doll specifically after Hitler disturbs me.

 

I would disagree on the psychological need thing when it comes to a name. In poetry names are used as a way to describe in less words the nature of a character, or personality. If someone says, My Aphrodite, we, with a cultural understanding that this is the goddess of love, know that the character being spoken of is beloved. Same as if someone described a character as Zeus, or Satan. There is an immediate association with the name about the character. And what often you will see are people who, say...name a character something that evokes one thing, but then the character is almost the complete opposite. Like Tiny for a huge guy, ect. So I really don't think that naming a doll Satan means that the person behind the doll is bound in some way with that name and what it represents on a spiritual level.

When I name my dolls, I always look up their meaning, because to me it is important about what that name says about character. And some of my dolls the meaning is opposite, and others it is dead on. And that being said, a few of my dolls...it just sounded cool.

I think there is no reason to ever shy away from a name that you wish to use that you /personally/ feel comfortable with. As a teacher, though, I would definitely caution when speaking about a doll or character with a potentially controversial name to children, as angry, touchy parents are way scarier and way more prevalent than terrorists or zealots.

 

I wouldn't avoid a certain name because of other people, it would be for my own personal dislike of the name. My doll, I will name it whatever I want to.

Having said that, boring names like Peter, George, etc, would never suit a doll of mine.

 

Mmmm....yes, I do understand using Sacred Names in a poetic sense for metaphor and analogy - but we're talking about dolls here, an object that is a daily part of most of our members life experience, at least for a while. Naming an object that one interacts with, shares with others, dresses, photographs, crafts for, writes about....is about more than just wanting to make a culturally understood reference. Dolls are recognized as deeply archetypal psychological personifications - in some cases - and other than the glib monikering of Satan....the combination of "doll" and "sacred name" points to a connection of some kind on a personal level. A deeper level than wanting to facilitate cultural recognition of traits, etc..

IMO.

 

I had remembered a name and wanted to name my doll that .It was Marduk but then I remembered that it was the name of a pagan god that Jehovah God (Jah,Yaweh,etc) had denounced and had destroyed people for worshipping him so I didnt name him that because I felt bad.

But then I decided on Abaddon since that means "Destroyer" and oddly enough in the bible Jesus is referred to as Abaddon.(But then again Jesus has alot of titles and is reffered to in the bible, Sprout,The greater David,Abaddon,prince of Peace,ArkAngel,Angel of the abyss,the word,wonderful counsler etc)
I was suprised to see the other day a bjd from a company (Luts maybe? I am not sure) a doll they call Abadon but with only one "d" but I assume they meant the same thing.
I would not want to name my doll anything that gives "glory" or reconigition to something bad .
Naming a doll after jesus I dont think is offensive since jesus is a common name. The name Lucifer is not in the bible and we really do not not even know what satans name really was. Satan means "oposer" Devil means "slanderer" (or vice versa) but I wouldnt name my doll after that guy. He may think I think he is cool or something.

People who name their dolls really really long names like "Sebastian Archer Longhorn Gibald Ribley the third" I think are interesting because I wonder how they remember those long names...

 

Perhaps that is true for some people then, but I would refuse for that being the case for myself. If I named a doll Jesus, it would be to evoke understanding of his character, perhaps some sort of martyr, not out of a emotional bond with or against Jesus. Just as I name a doll I wish to feel 'French', Francois. It is understood, hearing his name, that he is French. And my evil wizard is David, which is of course a perfectly good and sweet and normal name, which is why I like it so well for an evil derranged wizard. It is the opposite of his actual character.

People name their dolls 'Cain' to evoke a personality of an outlaw, I would guess, more often than they form an idol or symbol of Cain into a doll form. Not saying there aren't those that do. I just don't think the majority of people do.

 

It really seems that no matter what you do, you're going to offend a few people. Whether it be your dolls name, gender, orientation, hair, etc. That also goes for real life as well. Me being Gay for example offends people. My facial piercings are considered offensive to some as well. No matter what, someone is going to be offended. There is only one name that I will not use for any of my dolls, and that is 'Kevin', because it was the name of the last guy I loved who died in a car accident. However, that is quite personal, and does not abide to anyone else, unless it was a matter of coincidence of course.

I would never name a doll something to deliberately offend someone. In any other case, I would not have an issue naming a doll out of religious folklore and such if that name suit the doll well.​