Contentious doll names - gods and so on.

i think the problem (if you belive there is one) stems from our social lable-ing.
we give meanings and special statis to certain names, this in turn will cause consern and offence to others.

personly, strongly beliving in the old gods, it doesnt offend me when people use 'mythological' names because they are simply words given to being which we idolise and want to express.
considering most gods and the like have changed names or merged with others several diffent times over many different religions/countries (including major religous symbols) i feel its the idea behind the name that matters most.

i hope, when someone chooses a name, no matter what the back ground or meaning to others, they choose it because it sounds correct and it means something special to them...

i know it must be harder for some to accept when it comes to 'real life' people like famous crims or marters or anything, again i hope people dont go around deliberatly naming to offend but just simply like the name.

so yeah my two cents,

 

Well, I have a doll named Eros, and she is loosely based on the god Eros because he figured prominently in a Changeling game I ran for many years. I had this huge story involving him and one of the PCs and an NPC, love triangles and a curse spanning lifetimes. My Bambicrony Elf Cookie is that Eros' daughter and successor. It's a long story; I won't bore you with the details. But yes, it has meaning to me and to a number of my friends, but with the understanding that she is a totally fictionalized version of Eros and has no actual religious symbolism for any of us. I actually got the idea from the Gargoyles cartoon, where all these mythological figures are paying their respects to Titania and Oberon - latter half of Season 2, I believe.

Zagzagael's theory is interesting but if I understand it correctly, it certainly doesn't apply in my case. I am not journeying towards erotic love or away from it; I'm pretty well in stasis.

I tend to agree with the other comments I have read here about people being free to name their dolls what they wish, especially if the name has meaning for them. I don't think that people should name dolls with the intent of offending people. Seems rather petty and childish to me. But innocently naming a doll after something that may prove offensive to someone, somewhere, sometime down the road is fine. It wasn't done on purpose.

 

I have dolls that I've named after gods/mythical beings and plan to have more. Most of them are from the Greek Mythological pantheon. 'Ares', 'Dionysus', 'Cissy' (where no one but me can understand which god she's meant to be), and 'Alecto'.

Out of all of those, 'Cissy' is the only one who is an admirable character in mythological terms (and even then, due to the nature of the Greek gods themselves, not that admirable).

Ares is the god of violent bloodthirsty warfare. My chraracter only has a bit of a foul temper and some stubborness. He's actually a shy individual and nothing like his namesake. Then again, he started off as a Little Junior 'Mars' so that had something to do with it. Dionysus is a rather interesting god. So I picked the name. It sounds nice and my character is a pretty accurate portrayal of him. If not a little more 'serious'.

At the end of the day, I've picked those names because they hold significance to me. If I were a devout catholic, I might name my dolls after the saints. If I believed in the Sikh religion I might have decided to name my dolls after famous people from that religion. But I'm an Ancient History and Japanese student, so my dolls generally tend to be named after what I'm most familiar with.

I'd say that it's alright, because it's so long ago. That doesn't mean that it is 'right' to belittle ancient religions, but at the same time, it's so far gone it doesn't offend many people. I wouldn't be offended with dolls named 'Jesus', 'Lucifer' or 'Mohammed' either but I understand that others would be.

As for naming dolls after serial killers... well... People do glorify serial killers (Marilyn Manson for instance) but I don't think it's needed in the BJD community. It's kind of tempting fate, particularly if the killer is dead.

 

The great thing to me, in this hobby, is that I can do with my dolls whatever I want, whenever I want and I dont have to think about what other people think about it. If someone decides to name their doll Hitler or something, it's their choice. If someone else doesnt like it, they dont have to pay attention to it. The doll could still be beautiful and well cared for and otherwise a great doll.

I agree with Buff about the more poetic meaning of the names, though. I for example have an android character called Dusan. It's an east-european name and it comes from the word 'dusha' (sp?) that means soul. As Dusan is an android, he has no soul and that makes his name great for him.

 

I am a fan of religions/mythologies/whatsoever you prefer to call/consider them, and research them for fun. It's a hobby of mine. And as such, have a tendency towards names that are directly from them or relate to them. Not just in dolls, but in characters that I may create for various things.

I do not do this to offend, and I hope that anyone who ever makes the connections from names I may use to the religion/mythology/what-have-you that they descend from doesn't see them that way. I frequently use them because a character may have some trait in common with (or something that is drastically the opposite of) the character - for example I might name someone who has a love of water Neptune or Poseidon, or perhaps someone who is hydrophobic. Or even sometimes just because I like the name - I happen to have a passion for biblical names in particular, along with many names that are descended from Hebrew names that often refer to God (as in the monotheistic God of Christianity/Catholicism/Judaism/other religions closely related to these).

When it comes down to it, the reason I use names that are primarily descended from such things isn't to offend, but a way of combining my love of them with my love of dolls/writing/drawing. For me it is little more than a way of taking some of my hobbies and bringing them together.

 

I have been debating this aspect of doll-naming by myself for a while - after someone mentioned in another thread (maybe the one Zagzagael linked here) that they would find a doll named 'Adolf' offending. That name hasn't been that uncommon and - not considering the meaning behind it - sounds quite nice. Should we ban names of dictators/serial killers from our lives 'just' because it has the unfortune of being associated with these criminals? Then somwhere in the far-far future we might run out of names.....or what is the acceptable time after these could be 'recycled'? In the case of Caligula or Nero noone would be offended (or offended much) - but they are far histoy by now. What about a doll named Napoleon? (sorry, he is not a criminal, but I can't come up with one from arond that age right now....) Is he far away enough in the history that people wouldn't feel that affected by it?

There is also the aspect of the meanings of names. If I named my doll Nero - few people would think about the mad emperor, more of them would think of the latin word of 'black'. Caligula means 'little boots' - I can easily imagine someone finding such meaning appropriate for a doll (thinking about pukipukis ). There might be someone who has been searching for a meaning and a criminal's name would be 'just perfect' (without any reference of the actual criminal). Should they find another name with a similar meaning?

I'm personally against 'stigmatizing' names - or symbols - because by doing that we are somehow still under the effect of these criminals. But I'm also against forgetting history....and don't like offending others...

I think if someone is well aware of the aspects of the name they gave to their doll, and able to say 'I know who that person was and what he/she did but this name is still the perfect one for my doll' then go for it! And be ready to explain it to others, who might not understand right away. (Of course in an ideal world noone would come sreaming - even if virtually - in you face just because of a name. They would ask politely )

 

A lot of mine are named after god and goddesses- If I think it fits their personality.

One thing that scared me once was that I named two rats I once had Loki and Odin. Odin later lost his eye ( Odin the god is said to have lost and eye) It was the opposite one to Odin the God, but it did scare me thinking I had brought it on him!

It depends what the names mean to you, if they are names you like or are to be celebrated then use them, if they are so sacred that it would be offensive to you or your family, don't use them

It is a personal decision and only you and the doll share that

 

oooh this is quite an interesting subject. I dont think theres a name I havent wanted to cal my doll yet but I did debate on the character Raphael for a while who had had plans to be Sabik. Raphael being one of the archangels in christianity I had plans to make him an evil character despite him being an angel which I dont think would go down well with some uber christians.

However I think it also depends on the context of the doll. Say if you called it Jesus with the idea of him being the son of God but them made him be a guy who went round doing drugs and sleep around etc then I think that would be bad however if put in a different context like a parallel world or something I think would be more acceptable. (Thinking of the back story behind the character for the doll here more than anything else)

 

I don't have any BJDs with "controversial" names, though I also work in porcelain and have one named jesus, one named beelzebub, etc. I don't find it offensive, I find it funny. Especially in the case of Beelzebub. The Jesus one is a bearded lady and actually looks more like Frank Zappa....

Though (while I wouldn't really find it offensive) I thought it a bit creepy to name her frank Zappa.

I have another doll somewhere named "Captain Faggot" which I am sure many people would find offensive, but I am about the gayest thing you'll ever meet and I don't take any offense. It's not a word so much as a context of hatred that makes things like that objectionable in any way. (I want a Captain Faggot BJD someday...oh man that would be awesome...)

As far as religious names are concerned...I just don't get offended by things like that. I understand why/how others might get offended, but sorry! I don't!
If you don't like it, go look at something else. Or maybe learn to laugh at yourself.
But pretty much if you find something offensive, don't do it. *shrugs*
(and if you don't find it offensive, you still probably shouldn't flaunt it when people who are offended outnumber you and have whips)

 

This gave me a bit of a chuckle, considering that over at Angel's Dream we have both... Named after those figures. There's also a Zamiel, a Mephisothiles, an Azrael, Chaos, Hope (from Pandora's box), Ju-on (Grudge), Ragnarok (Basically the Norse end of the world), Abbadon, Cerberus (a Hound at that), a Morpeus (Nightmare aspect) and a War (one of the four Horsemen of the Appocolypse)
Of course, we're a bit unconventional over here, and not all of the dolls live up to their namesakes, but I believe that intent and execution counts for a lot. If you name a doll with the intent of disrespecting a person or an ideal, then you make that doll up in a mocking way, it's a lot different than making a doll to represent an idea or a figure that you find interesting.
However, there is always someone out there who will get offended, no matter what you do. So basically, try not to be dissrespectful, but don't feel restricted by what other people may or may not say.

 

I've always been a bit hard to offend, so I can't imagine a doll's name being offensive in any way. Because, well...in the end, they're dolls. Very beautiful, usually personal, works of art, embodiment of characters, muses, all of that, but they're dolls. I'm not trying to belittle anything or anyone, but it's the honest truth. Ball-jointed DOLLS. It's in the name. How could one get offended by a doll? Their owners, perhaps, but the doll itself or even it's name? They're intended to be played with, not in the same way as say a Cabbage Patch doll is, but play is still play.

Relevant definition of play according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary:
a: recreational activity; especially : the spontaneous activity of children
b: absence of serious or harmful intent

So...yes. I suppose I'm mystified by the potential of naming a doll and having it be seen as offensive. On a stretch perhaps as a very personal one, a name somehow being offensive to one or two people due to a prior event in their lives...but just generally offensive? Nah. (Then again, when I was small I was raised with a dog named Beel Z. Bub, and a horse named Dawg Phood. I have inherited my parents' sense of humor.)

 

Before I start, a disclaimer: I practice, quite seriously, a Neo-Pagan religion. To me, and to most Pagans, naming a doll after one of the ancient deities is not sacreligious or offensive, since everything that exists is part of everything else that exists. There is something to be aware of, though, and those who have been talking about archetypes and so on are touching on it. Names can come with baggage--associations and traits. I wouldn't name a doll Loki because I know Loki's character and history, and I would be running a risk of accidentally invoking that into the doll. This sounds like pure superstition to a lot of people, and no one has any obligation to take me seriously; I'm simply adding my personal perspective to the question. On the other hand, my dolls name themselves, so I'm in no danger! The closest we've gotten to this issue is with Zenshin, who shares a name with the very first Japanese person (a young woman) to take Buddhist vows, but the doll is not a shell or representation of Zenshin herself.

Now that I think about it, though, I would be cautious about naming my dolls after someone else's living religious tradition. Names such as "Lakshmi" are commonly given to children, so I wouldn't feel too odd about using them, but I would not name my doll "Pele," for instance (practictioners of traditional Hawaiian religion have asked us to not call on her--they tell us she tends to overreact and start lava flows). To me, it's a matter of common sense and courtesy, and if you don't know for sure that what you're planning is acceptable, ask someone who grew up in the tradition or one of their clerics.

 

I wouldn't mind someone naming their doll with the first name of simply Adolf. It's just a name. Just as I wouldn't automatically associate the name Damien with being the son of Satan as in The Omen, I imagine plenty of logical people could distance it in their minds from Adolf Hitler himself. (We had a priest named Damien at my old school, one I really admired. It's just a name.) I just can't disentangle the use of that name and its surname from their most infamous bearer.
blackwingsblackheart stated the practical reasons for not naming a doll after a deity very clearly. I've done name and surname research for my first doll (mostly off of lists of soldiers in particular units) but I would never 'borrow' even a person's full name, no matter how virtuous they were or how good the name sounds. Especially for the character type I'm setting up Guy to be. Even if they aren't famous or infamous for something, *they* were named that way for a reason and it would feel like... I don't know, theft. I'm not big on the thought of dolls with souls or dolls with energy we're not just projecting, but it would feel like identity theft or like I was disrespecting them, as they're no longer here to defend the name for themselves.

EDIT: Caligula would be kind of a cute name for a doll, actually. It's a cognomen, which means it's more or less just another nickname.

 

I think I would be the person people are talking about who has the doll named Jesus.

As has been mentioned, it's a common name in Spanish speaking cultures. My character is Spanish, and I like the name. Sure, I could have picked something like Jose, but I went with Jesus. His character is nothing like Jesus Christ, and the name is pronounced differently. Is he out killing people? No, he's just a brooding art student.
I knew that some people would be offended by the name, but while I am sorry if I have offended someone, its my doll and I am not doing anything offensive with him, other than giving him a name.
Ironically, his nickname is Zeus. If I had named him that, I'm sure people wouldn't look twice.

In response to an earlier comment made about naming dolls after recent notorious historical figures, I think that would be more offensive. But it all depends - name a doll Hitler, then its offensive. Name a doll Adolf, is it offensive? People to this day are still called Adolf, by assuming the person picked the name after Adolf Hitler might be a bit presumptuous. Are we reading too much into everything?

 

Well, Adolf is a name like any other. Less common now, but still. Someone could name their doll something totally innocuous (like 'Josephine') and dress it up in Nazi uniform. I'd be offended, but what can I do? It's art. I can only advise, don't do it please, you'll likely offend people along the way. The names will bear stigma still to people who don't understand, but if dolls are to be taken as art you should take that along with them. The doll itself isn't immoral or sinful or wicked, the doll owner might just have a... quirky sense of humour. Or at least we can hope.

 

I think you bring up a good point Rhoswyn. I think its more a matter of what you do with a doll which has the potential to really offend, rather than the name.

 

Marduk is actually also the name of a diety, the protector of the ancient city of Babylon.

I'm not claiming that that means the Christian take on it is wrong - that's a religious debate, not a dolly one. I'm just pointing out that there are other stories about that.

In other news, I think I'd personally feel a little weird naming my doll after a god. I know people who do include gods from Greek and Norse pantheons as part of their worship, and unless the dolls were included as avatars (I do know some people who do this) I'd feel weird naming a doll "Artemis" or "Loki" or something else evoking such powerful.

That said, there are plenty of names derived from the same meanings or that have similar sounds. My half-Unseelie girl, Aiden, was originally going to be a demon of some sort before the character politely informed me that wasn't quite correct Her name means "fiery" and the name reminds me of the name "Hades".

 

In regards of the topic about naming your doll Adolf; I wouldn't take direct insult, not at once. But I would stop in my tracks and question why. Even if it is just his first name, it's tagged with a very dirty history. Most people in the modern world would immediately make an association to Hitler, and the owner would have known that, so why choose that name? I'd wonder if it was in quiet consent, to try and show off (like I don't care about history, I name my doll what I want), or had another character with that name which with much love had become the main association point to them, and thus could use the name Adolf without automatically thinking Auswitch.

I would personally never be able to call my doll anything with direct association to any modern dictator. I wonder if this has also something to do with which country/part of the world you are from. We all grow up differently, after all, with different teachings in school. In Norway it has just become resent that we're able to joke about the IInd World War at all. Nazism has become somewhat of a joke now, and I think that is a show of healing, but it was a long way there. And people are still deathly afraid of being associated with Nazism (unless they are of course neo nazis), and would therefore, I believe, avoid names like Adolf.

About gods and goddesses/mythology: For me I'd have a much easier time naming my doll either Loke (I have a cat with that name), Tor, Odin, Frigg, Frøya or whatever, than let’s say Zeus, Hera or Aprhodite. Might be because the aforementioned is a part of my every day life, and doesn't seem as... what shall say, big and foreign. Names like Aphrodite comes off as a mouthfull to me, seems a bit tacky, like big jewels.

About Lucifer, Satan, Jesus, Judas and what have you, no connection. But then I am raised in an atheist home. If someone had named his doll Jesus, I'd automatically assume it was because they liked the name. I don't think I could imagine a very serious devote Christian name his doll Jesus in homage. But then again, what do I know?
Lucifer is quite common, it's a nice name. Judas has a certain vampire tag on it, so I'd view it as a more gothic approach. Satan would just be bad taste. Not offensive, not at all, but a bit too... yeah. And if there was a doll named God I'd assume they meant gods in general. Like my doll's name is Dio.

Conclusion: It's all about the culture, where and how you were raised to view history. IInd World War is still a huge no no, so is any other modern dictator, no Mao or Stalin doll for me, thank you. No association with the Bible or any other religious teaching. It’s all about how you’re raised.

 

This is a very interesting topic and one I haven't seriously considered before. A lot of very good points have already been made, I would like to add a few things to be considered.

The first thing occurred to me when I was reading through this debate is the origins of the religious names, names of deities, and culturally famous/sacred names. While we may disagree on whether it should make a difference, I think it's worth pointing out that some of those names exist before they became associated with someone/some being and became sacred because of that association. But some names did not exist before and came into being with the being/person they are known for, and often in far east cultures, those deities/famous people's names were never used by anyone else since their times.

Personally in the first case I would name a doll something even if I just like the sound, after all, it was a name before it became sacred by association with a divine being or famous person. In the second case I would not, or would at least think it over many, many times. If the name originated with the divine being or famous person it is known for and was never or very, very rarely used by people in its own culture, then I would personally not feel comfortable giving it to a doll unless I have some very, very good reasons.

As far as the names from the Greek/Roman mythologies are concerned, I think those names have two meanings. One is as the beings they were meant to represent in ancient times, and the other is the popular images they became in our own cultures today. I do think both are valid but the two are not at all the same. It's a lot more common for someone to use the comtemporary interpretation and usage of the names, but if someone is trying to make it into a seriously representation of the ancient world, then they should have done a lot of research before they start.

 

I suppose it's due to house rules, but I find it hilarious that my post would be content edited to the point where it was beyond recognition! The irony, given the context, is delightful! (especially since "gayest" stuck)

I suppose therein lies an important point, as we are talking about offending...house rules.
Like naming a doll Mohammed in a context where one is under the "house rules" of muslim people... having a doll named...what mine is named...in a context like DoA where they must consider the younger users and such--
I suppose this demonstrates that if I had the BJD version of him, under the house rules here I couldn't ever use his *real* name! On Con. doll, probably yes. Their rules (and the scope of their audience) are different.

People have a right to use words and names that they want, at least where Free Speech rules the day. However (in America), a rule that doesn't carry over to private areas. Yes, you are *technically* allowed to say what you want in general, and others have every right to take offense, even if they don't have the right to make you stop saying it...but if you're on their property, rather than your own, or public property, they have every right to impose upon you the "house rules."
Don't like it? leave the house.
I'm not saying I'm thrilled with that system of society, but it IS understandable. I wouldn't want anyone going against my "house rules" either.
I like being in this "house" here on DoA, and now I have had a chance to think harder about what that really means.
But in harsher scenarios...
It goes back to what I was saying earlier about doing what you want but perhaps not flaunting it to the same degree when outnumbered and unarmed.
We have rights, but it is *sometimes* childish to fool ourselves (or "fibble" eachother) about the boundries when not in our own "house."