Contentious doll names - gods and so on.

Mmm... I would have to have a good REASON why they had that name - for example, I have a number of dolls named after angels and demons from a variety of sources, including the Bible, Paradise Lost, the Goetia, the Gospel of the Witches, etcetera, and they ARE those mythical characters, or my heavily 'customised' versions of them. Likewise, if I had a doll who's character was Spanish or Latin American, then I wouldn't think it weird to call them Eva (Eve) or Jesus (Pronounced the Hispanic way, of course) because those are quite common names there. But it would be weird for me to call a doll Anubis or Poseidon or Banshee, even, without a very good reason, because people KNOW WHO THEY ARE and would think of their own impression of that deity/whatever instead of the doll itself's character.

Gods/mythical terms that aren't common, or well known, I'm quite free with however. I have a doll named after the goddess Coyolxauqui just because it's a cool name - and the number of people who actually know who that is (Let alone can pronounce it) quite small, because it's a dead religion, a god that isn't worshipped anymore, and now it's just something exotic and unusual to wrap your teeth around. To use an example from above, I wouldn't call a doll Banshee, but Baobhan-sidhe would probably be okay.

I would probably shy away from deitys still in common worship where it isn't customary to name people after them. I wouldn't use the name Shiva, even though it's all kinds of cool, because I'm not sure of the Hindu attitudes towards using that name and I don't want to seem ignorant or offensive, even by accident. But Michael and Gabriel are very common names that no one would hesitate to use, most people probably don't even think of the fact that they're two of maybe half a dozen Arch Angels actually named in the authorised version of the Bible, and the Biblical demons are either so obscure or have passed into popular culture so long ago that nobody attaches much stigma to their names.

So, after that bit of rambling - I think that there's a limit to the 'you can do whatever you want' rule that I usually support, because religion is a touchy subject to some people and there's a fine line between being creatively explorative and being inadvertantly offensive.

 

My dolls are not yet named after gods, but my doll Koji is a goddess from ancient times and claims to have gone by many names over the years.

I am non religious and personally believe that all religions are both 100% true and 100% false at the same time, and that all things have life, I therefore do not hold any name up higher than others. if I have 2 dolls each wanting to be named for a religious leader in 2 rivaling religions I would let them and let their personalities that form become what it will whether they like or hate each other.

If I were to name a doll Jesus and a Christian were to get offended or a doll Zeus and a person of the Green Pantheon faith were to get offended I would apologise to them both and explain that the names to me are nothing more then names and that they do not have to call my dolls by their full name or they can shorten it to Jes or Zoo.

To many names mean different things, I will never name any of my dolls Jason, Edward, or Edith as they are extremely close late relatives but if someone else I know who knew them were to use the names I would be fine with it.

 

Yep! Yep!! Zactly. (and that whole area of inquiry is superbly fascinating. Oh for another entire lifetime each week so I could do all the reading I'd like to do...)

It's the baggage that comes with some names - whether it's appropriate or not - that would steer me away from using them. When I mentioned Caligula it was primarily for lack of anything else at hand at the moment; heavens knows I'm the world's worst namer, ever. But even though the literal meaning of Caligula is "little boots," for better or worse the Roman Emperor of that name attached his unfortunate baggage to it. I make no judgments about whether that baggage should or should not be attached, it simply IS.

So for me, it's much simpler to avoid names that would bother me. If they bother me, they're fairly likely to bother others.

 

my post was dumb, I didn't read the first post correctly

 

Save for a small number of dolls with "hm?" names, most of my dolls are common names. These may be common Western names, or in the case of one, a common Chinese name.

Just because *I* may find something offensive it does not mean I should yell at someone to ohmygod change their doll name.

 

My view on this is that when naming a doll you should consider the religion in question. If you were to call a doll after a pagan name, we've already heard that to most neo-pagans this isn't offensive. However, in the Islamic world it is strongly offensive to call a doll Mohammed. This is because of the laws of their religion, I think. I'm not sure if it's Qu'ran based, but by calling a doll Mohammed you'd be spitting in the face of their laws (either scripturally based or culturally). And if the religion says those who break the laws need to be punished...well, you're in trouble (extreme example there, I know).

Although, to say we have an obligation to research a name before we use it is iffy. It comes back to if the name holds the meaning for you. If an alien had a BJD and called it Adolf Hitler - why is that offensive? Because there's no personal maliciousness hid in it...which (if it's not the case of religious law) can be the problem. Take for example my last name. I've discovered recently that there's a 50/50 chance it means "malicious and hateful". Does it bother me? No. If I were to change my name to that - I can see why others would be uncomfortable with that. If I were to be concerned with the name of a doll, it would be more for personal concern for that person. Why does a person want to call their doll Satan? I've typed this out a lot of times...and it basically comes down to that. I'm not sure I'd ever be offended. Just concerned for that person's wellbeing.

And I certainly agree with the comment that it's what people do with their dolls. If they have a character called Hades (which actually brings me to another point - a lot of the time these sorts of names are fashionable, and hold little real meaning) who is a normal sort of guy, fine. If somebody posted pictures of Hades conducting a demonic ceremony... I think I'd be offended. Although I'm not sure that's rational. I'd certainly be uncomfortable with it.

But, after all that - I still wouldn't force it's removal or complain. I just wouldn't look at it. As I've said before, loads of people have dolls that are demons, and that's probably far more 'offensive' to me. But that's their choice. Who am I to tell them what to do?

Oh, obviously Caleb (my doll's name) is a biblical name. But that name holds a lot of meaning for me and him as a character. If another Christian were to tell me they were offended by that...HUH? Again, comes back to the individual case of the faith. There's no reason for it to be offensive. Then again, my lapsed Catholic (his words) philosophy teacher was horrified at the prospect of calling a dog Jesus. Wheras I said..."That'd be great, you could say 'Aw, Jesus, you've pooed on the carpet again!'"

End ramble...

 

I don't find any name out of bounds for a doll.. I guess it all depends on a persons belief in the power of a name. That's not to say that I think any "word" should be a dolls name...derogatory, offensive words toward gender, race etc or just crude words really just shows the immaturity/class of the person behind the doll.

Naming a doll using another person's name whether famous or infamous, is only really reusing the name..not paying homage to them.

After reading the article about naming a doll after a dead person/loved one, I think that depending on the psyche of the person doing it that is could be a healing process...for we all want to be remembered in some small way when our last footstep fades from this earth, to know we made an impact in the life we lived and people we encountered-- what better way than a beautiful doll?

So I feel Goddess and God names, the famous and the infamous, the good, the bad and the ugly all could and should be used, if a person likes it enough..

I actually have three doll named after my cats.. one of which is gone...does it bother me saying her name? No, but I think of her with a smile on my face.

 

Personally, I name a lot of my dolls based on either rare or mythological names.I often look into these names when picking a name. I wouldnt be afraid to name my dolls after demons/fallen angels, I am interested in demonology and I think the names sound interesting. Better than Mike, or other common names.

I think though, people perhaps take a name too far, its just a name for a doll, if its personal choice, I dont see a problem. And, if people are offended, they dont have to look, or read about this doll. Honestly, if you offended by it, you should be the one to look away, as otherwise if you complain, its almost pushing beliefs onto others. If i see a doll I dont like, I dont look at it. Simple as that. My 2 cents anyway xD. Hope I havent offended too much.

 

Personally i'll call my dolls what ever i want, be it offending or not to others. If i dont find it offensive its good by me its my doll after all. After all my doll Dahlia is named after the "black Dahlia" a murder victums press name. A names a name and thats it to me, ive always found religion to be about control and i wont let a word/name control what i do with my own dolls and possessions.

 

kyliebee: I like your point. *Nods in agreement*

 

I think you have the right to call your doll whatever you want, Jesus, Satan, Mohammed, Jehovah, Azrael, Loki, Herne etc. and not be restricted by what other people think. I suspect that most people would consider the intention/story behind the doll's naming more relevant to the degree of offensiveness than the name itself but, ultimately, it's only your comfort zone that you should worry about. After all, it's your doll.

However, as blackwingsblackheart said, some names come with baggage and, to my mind, whether that baggage is social, cultural or spiritual you may well end up having to deal with it. It can lead to a lot of frustration for you when someone asks you "why did you call your doll xxxx?" for the umpteenth time or makes assumptions about you based on your doll's name.

I would also, respectfully, ask anyone who thinks it's ok to use the name of an old deity purely because no-one worships it nowadays, to consider whether they are just assuming the absence of devotees. Some people still honour ancient deities.

 

RIGHT ON I agree with your opinion 100%!
(And this part of your post totally made me smile, as I've got a dollie named for the Black Dahlia, as well!)

 

I think the only names I'd probably stay away from would be actual *curse* words. Reminds me of a certain singer whose dog is named...well..something that I wouldn't feel comfortable saying around people I didn't know or relatives LOL

 

I look at it more from a storyteller's point of veiw. All the dolls in our household fit in to a re-made Christian mythological mold, and we have worked out a great deal of the background. Stephen Brust's novel 'To Reign in Hell' is another example of playing with the same mythology. And yes, I do consider myself Christian, however I'm hardly conservative and my particular beliefs are not petty enough to find such things offensive. If you can watch movies like Dogma and Stigmata with an open mind, you can likely handle our crew. I think treating anything as too sacred to play with or really think about freely is a bad route to take. The Greeks had comedic satyr plays after the trageties to poke fun, frequently at the gods, to make them more understandable to poor humans. And because being too serious will make your head explode.

And of course there are many dolls that have company names or backstories that are already treading there, like El. Yep, it's a Hebrew word for God (or god) and has quite a history. You can see a few highlights here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/El_(god) .

 

I really like what you said here very much.

To those who say "It's my doll. I can name him whatever the furball I want, so stop pushing your religion onto me!", I have this to say.

There's no such thing as complete freedom of action. Whatever you do has it's effect. If you go ahead and call your doll a name that would offend others, you are clearly pushing your selfish beliefs on them. You can tell them to turn away, but you the fact that you've pushed some buttons are still there. Why do you stick to being so stubborn about a doll's name and continue to offend when it could be resolved so easily?

There are such things as being sensitive, and having courtesy. These, once again I'd like to remind like someone has done before, are DOLLS. There's no "omg he HAS to have this name liek omgomgomg he'll wake up at night and kill me if i don't name him that". Fortunately a lot of the gods and deity names that i've seen common of use so far are the commercialised gods and deities. Including Jesus because I believe that people can now take the name Jesus without having any strong implications of christianity tied with him at all (although I feel very sorry for Jesus because my religion shares him as one of our prophets)

Now that I've said that, I'd like to point out that I am Muslim. I'm not very religious, but I'm rather uptight about people disrespecting the religion.

There's a taboo over naming dolls after Mohammad our prophet, our god, Allah as well as all the other prophets preceeding Mohammad. The reason is this. In our religion, dolls/idols are a taboo. Worshipping inanimate objects is a very big offense because you will be putting too much faith/attention and such to that inanimate object when you believe you are worshipping. Therefore naming a doll with one of the prophets names or Allah's name is going over that offense. It's worse when a nonbeliever does it because it means they are not respecting something that we believe in.

Another issue is that there is a law about not portraying any of our prophets. This reason is also to avoid the one mentioned above. Once a portrayal exists, it becomes a symbol which, as hard as you try to avoid, will turn into an idolism. Like Jesus's image that was found. Now you can easily find idols/images of Jesus. To go even further, you can find parody images, many rather insulting, even more easily. Because of this issue, the cartoonist who drew mohammad was scorned heavily. He took a law we hold very seriously into a joke. We have humor. We just know there's a line somewhere for every humor that alot of free-thinking people tend to override : religious icons.

We do not wish for there to be any portrayal of our prophets or god especially on inanimate objects. Or animals really. I agree that the name Mohammad is used a lot on boys, but that's done in the believe of having blessings from the name. i.e. may he grow into a fine young man and such.

if you name a doll mohammad, that's almost like giving the prophet a face, on an idolistic doll nevertheless, whether you mean it or not. And what you do with the doll, it would have further implications.

So to keep things simple, just stay away from names you know will cause trouble. There are reasons, even if you don't know it. Like Pele as quoted above. People don't get offended for no reason at all. So find out and respect what they believe if you want them to respect your "freedom".

p/s : Mods sorry if this post is too religious or something. You can mod it if you want, but I just want people to know why it's such a big deal for Muslims if a prophet's /Allah's name is used on dolls and such. Thanks :3

 

If it has no religious implications for me, I see absolutely nothing wrong with naming a doll Mohammed. Its not my idol, its just a name to me. Until every religion is treated the same way by everyone, there's no reason to offer one more respect than another. To say... 'take the easy way out and change the name', is forcing a change on someone else and disrespecting their right to freedom. I would full heartedly support anyone choosing any name they wish for their doll and defend them against others who might persecute or threaten them for making such a selection.

Unless of course they pick 'Lestat'.

 

My feeling on this is that anyone should be free to name their dolls whatever they want. Whether the name is a religious one, a real person's, or a curse word, it's your doll to do with as you wish.

But by the same token, if your doll has a potentially controversial/sensitive name (and hopefully you know enough about the name to realize it could be controversial), I feel it's your responsibility to exercise common sense when posting your doll for public consumption. In the privacy of your home or on your own personal website is one thing. On public forums, you should take into account the rules of the forum and the demographics of the members.

It should be obvious that pictures of a doll named Adolf in a Nazi uniform are probably not going to be well received in most places. If your doll's name is a curse word, maybe it's best to share your photos, but not your doll's name, depending on the forum. It should be realized that a doll named Mohammed is potentially very offensive to Muslims. You shouldn't have to change your doll to please someone else, but it only makes sense to post appropriately for the venue.

 

A name is just a name, it means no more than the meaning people choose to give it. If I thought it appropriate for a doll I'd name it anything that sprung to mind. If someone else was offended by that, I'd try and avoid bringing the two together, but that's really someone else's problem rather than my own. I don't see it as being insulting to the originally named person/entity, and it could be interpreted as a compliment.

 

I would like to thank YOU for taking the time to write that out and share your very, very, very astute observations in this thread! No moderation called for at all in this post - this is exactly the type of debate and dialogue we hope to see in this subforum.

 

As a Christian, I'm happy that Jesus is a fairly common name because I think it helps to humanize Him. Which, in our religion, is a large part of the point.