Contentious doll names - gods and so on.

The idea of naming something after a religious/mythological or otherwise infamous character may have been novel to me back in middle school, but I've long since been disillusioned as to their importance. Naming something along the lines of Lucifer, Satan, or Loki now seems pretentious or unoriginal, rather than shocking. Remember when you thought that the name 'Midnight' was a great name for a black horse? Yeah.

So, on a personal note, the only reason I'd avoid such names is because they give the impression of immaturity. I'm jaded. Really, I think naming your doll 'Bob Smith' is more shocking. But, I'm looking at it as a matter of cleverness as opposed to morality. Whether or not you've managed to achieve the taboo with your naming skills depends on too many variables to be a really satisfying pursuit. Everything is offensive to someone, somewhere. Trying to dodge offending anyone is exactly as useless as trying to shock everyone.

 

i wouldnt avoid anyname unless ive met an exceptionaly horrible person with that name. Lol sure, id name a doll jesus if he suited it.

 

Amen, seriously. As far as I'm concerned, this whole "debate" thread, like several of the others, is about personal preferences.

 

What about David Jones? Which is also a name in homage... to more than one person. Every time I see either name, I smile, because... I know something they don't. ^__^

 

I agree with this, 100%


On a side note, my parents named me after the biblical "wicked angel of the night" who was the male counterpart to the demoness Lilith. They didn't know this; they just thought it ("Laila") was a cute name.

IMO, whenever you're going to give something a 'name', just do 30 seconds of research to get an idea of the origin or what the name means, and then decide if its the right name for your doll/computer/LANparty/kid/pet.

 

I feel as if a name is just that: a name. Not being a very religious person myself, I don't take great offense in seeing anyone (doll or otherwise) named Jesus.

In fact, I fell flat on my ass laughing in the middle of Wal*Mart at a Moses doll. I'm just that kind of person.

Names have different meanings in different cultures. As many before my post have said Jesus (Hay-zeus) is a common name in Spanish culture, but not so much in say... Japan. But if I wanted to name my doll Amaterasu or Isis do I run at risk of offending a Japanese or Egyptian person? Possibly. Possibly not. But what can you do? It's all a matter of personal belief rather than an actual ethical problem.

 

Remember also that names differ greatly in different languages.

A name like Satan is actually common some places in the Middle East - and NOT with any religious connotation whatsoever. Same with a name like Laban (also an arabic name) which means something like "scoundrel" in danish - sure to give a few giggles...

My father's name was Gunner, that doesn't mean he was shooting at anything though

And a name like Adolf.. while it personally gives me "Hitlersque" thoughts, it might just be your father's name as well...

Almost any common name is somehow religious in origin. Elisabeth, the origin of my name (Lisbeth) means something like God is merciful IIRC - but I must admit I never think of Eli when someone calls my name.

This whole naming thing is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" thing. It all boils down to what the intentions behind the name is. If you call a doll Adolf in homage to Adolf Hitler, I would find it rather creepy, but if it's in homage to your beloved grandfather or something? That's a whole other ballgame then.

 

I personally find it creepy no matter if it's in homage to someone, or anything else. But on the other hand, it's probably the background that's making me feel uncomfortable with the name, due to obvious reasons ;P I've heard that in my country there are only 7 people born after war that were named Adolf _-_

And if someone named their doll Jesus? oh god, how I'd lol. I can barely stand some oh-so-gothic, pseudo-medieval or vampiresque names, or simply when I see owners trying too hard to be original. Seeing a Jesus would be just too much xD
but hey, who cares? everyone's free to do what they want, especially with their dolls ;P

 

I have to take issue with this. while it is certainly true that many names we consider normal and common have to do with religion in some way, it is not that uncommon for a frequently used name to either be completely non-religious in meaning, or to be only "religious" in that it happened to be used in the bible.

for examples, I checked out the most frequently used baby names in the US for 2006 here:
http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/babynames/

I noticed that, while almost all of the male top 10 were names that existed in the bible, not all of them were what you would call "religious" names by meaning. while a name like "Jacob," which means "supplanter," may be considered religious because Jacob is a biblical personage well known even to many non-christians, I think a name like "Ethan" can be considered quite tangentially "religious" as can be seen from the definition I got at http://www.behindthename.com :

ETHAN
Usage: Jewish, English, Biblical
Means "solid, enduring" in Hebrew. This is the name of a wise man in the Old Testament.

there are also common men's names that are not religious but social in origin, having to do (often) with leadership or paternity. the number 10 spot went to William:

WILLIAM
Usage: English
From the Germanic name Wilhelm, which was composed of the elements wil "will, desire" and helm "helmet, protection". The name was introduced to Britain by the Normans.


in women's names, the trend against "religious" names is even stronger. the name "Madison" is a relatively recent name in terms of popularity, but it made the top 10 in 2006 and has absolutely nothing to do with religion:

MADISON
Usage: English
From an English surname meaning "son of MAUD".

even Matilda, the name from which Maud is derived (and therefore conceivably forming part of the meaning of Madison) means "strength in battle" from Germanic maht "might, strength" and hild "battle".

the popularity of Madison is relatively recent, and could be considered tangential to this discussion as it shows more the current trend of unusual names than that common names are frequently not religious. however, the names Emily and Emma have been present and even quite popular for a long time, and both are non-religous.

EMILY
Usage: English
Medieval feminine form of Aemilius, which was derived from Latin aemulus meaning "rival".

EMMA
Usage: English, French, Italian, Finnish, Dutch
Derived from Germanic ermen meaning "whole" or "universal". This name was borne by the mother of Edward the Confessor and by an 11th-century German saint.

that said, I'd like to point out that using names that have a meaning related to some deity (as in matthew, "gift of YHWH," or elizabeth, "my God is an oath" or "my God is abundance") is quite different from using a deity's actual name (as in Jesus or Wotan). I'm pretty sure that most religions accept using phrases that refer to their deities in a positive light. if a religion is going to object to something (though not all do), it is more likely the actual name of a deity, not simply a name that has something to do with their god.

I think people ought to be tasteful about what they do, but I think that if you do a little research into the culture you're taking the name from, you can't really go wrong.

 

I think names are just names, and we shouldn't associate them so much with one character or historical figure that happened to have that name. Another example is the name Lolita - a lovely name, but not many kids are going to get called that now because it happened to be the name Nabokov used in his novel, doesn't really make sense to me. I think the inention rather than the actual name is important - if someone is deliberately trying to cause offense that's a problem to do with that person. The majority of the time people use names because they like the way it sounds, or the images it invokes to them.
I actually like the name Jesus as it is pronounced in Spanish. Satan/Lucifer etc are just a bit boring and overused.

 

I actually went away to think about this for a few days and come back to discover that JennyNemesis and Taco and a few others had raised the points I wanted to raise.

I don't know many, if any, Pagans who would be offended if you named your doll after a Pagan God or Goddess. They might raise an eyebrow and wonder at your ignorance if you have no idea of the nature of the deity whose name you use. They may, depending on the deity, hope that those energies don't manifest as a result - not that that is likely to seem relevant to non-Pagans who believe the deity in question is dead - in much the same way that people touch wood for luck. The majority of Pagans that I know weave their magic and worship with a generous sprinkling of tolerance and humour and understand that the Gods have a sense of humour too.

It wasn't the issue of naming dolls that had me mulling over my words for so long, it was the attitude expressed in some posts that the ancient religions and deities were dead or no longer worthy of the same respect as current, mainstream religions. People may not worship in quite the same way as their ancestors, they may have tempered their practice to modern day life. They may have had to reconstruct their practices from history books and archeology but their deities and their relationships to those deities are just as deeply felt and just as real to them as a Christian's relationship to God or Jesus, or a Muslim's relationship with Allah or Mohammed, or (substitute whichever deity and devotee you wish.) To say that their faith or deity is dead because they are not practicing the same way in an unbroken tradition is really quite offensive, far more offensive than what someone has called their doll.

Go ahead and name your doll whatever you want, Jesus, Ra, Buddah, Loki, Athena, Morrighan, whatever, it won't offend me although it might offend others. Just don't tell me that the deities I honour are dead, that's absolutely guaranteed to offend.

 

NAME For the purposes of magic and religion, the name of anything was considered identical with the thing itself, a spiritual "handle" by which the thing or the supernatural being could be manipulated...Words for "names" are virtually the same as words for "soul" in many languages - Irish, Old Bulgarian, Sanskrit, Greek, Latin....

Names are important...

 

In danger of going off topic here but I just wanted to point out that I don't think anyone implied non mainstream religions were less worthy of respect! I think the poster was just trying to make a distinction between deities worshipped in the present day and ancient mythological gods such as Greeks, Egyptians, Norse.

 

Thank you.^^ I just glanced at the recent posts and I have to say I'm glad you pressed that point, since if it's me that you're mentioning, then yes. EXACTLY what you stated.

This can be heading totally off-topic since I can start ranting about what I believe, and how I find it completely offensive when people say that they don't believe in Jesus and that they can use his name all they like. So I can jump at several posts and say they insulted me, but I know that they don't necessarily believe what I believe, and even though I may feel offended, many people aren't saying they wouldn't respect me and my faith.

So everyone can really get insulted as this topic is spicy, so now I'm heading to the actual NAME issue which again, like you said, I believe all names should be respected and understood.

Thanks again!

 

Moulin's graciously-worded post is correct... Good rhetoric avoids blanket-statements & assumptions, and the main source of rancor here was the assumption that some religions are not worthy of present-day respect when it comes to invoking their names, and that there should be any differentiation between the level of respect that religions get.

In practice, I find that people's widely creative choice of doll-naming-- from pantheons old and new, real and imagined-- actually serves to instruct others about gods & entities they may have never heard of before. Broadening one's horizons can only be a good thing. Angelmouse's hunch about it being a 'power in numbers' argument is spot-on ("Are what is respectful and disrespectful governed by sheer population?"), but the laws of the masses can be swayed, one mind at a time, until what was once 'radical' is now common enough for everyday.

I have a Spike too-- because I thought for weeks & weeks & I simply couldn't think of a good proper strike-fear-into-the-heart Demon name, that's why! Spike is an imp, and he's a funnylookin little Unoa Light, so a 1950s dog nickname suits him better than something like Abaddon (or what have you). 'Spike' really IS a default nickname for when you can't think of anything tougher, methinks. ^^ Next imp I get, I think I'm naming him Nebuchadnezzar.

If you have picked anything controversial for any aspect of your doll, and you're ashamed of it or scared to show it, then by all means, go ahead and hide it. There is a lot to be said for the maxim "harmony must prevail" when you have a very large audience (as in DOA). But if you're not afraid to defend your choices, then call him by his own proper name.

 

Well, what makes my brain boil is that people are offended because I named my doll Bellatrix! Like Bellatrix Lestrange is the only Bellatrix ever to exist. It's the name of a STAR.

Well, that aside... I don't care what you name your doll. Obviously if you name it Jesus and model it after the savior himself I'm going to be offended, but... people make dolls based on greek gods so it'd be unfair of me to say I don't care if someone makes an Apollo or an Artemis. So it's best just to say, "I don't care". In any case, really.

 

It sounds very much like saying that all religions deserve respect but then saying that the worship of ancient deities like those from the Egyptian, Greek, Norse pantheons and other deities who we know of from myths and history don't count because they are no longer worshipped in the present day.

My point is that ancient mythological Gods ARE still being worshipped in the present day, by people in non mainstream religions, and therefore no distinction should be made.

When someone posts that 'no one worships God XXX anymore' and someone else responds by saying 'actually I worship God XXX and so do a lot of people I know,' it is not only disrespectful to continue to insist that no one worships God XXX anymore, it is also inaccurate.

 

I think the only thing that should matter is intent. Is the person using a deity name to ridicule a religion or do they just like the sound of the name?

To develop a list of potentially non-PC names in order to be sensitive to each and every religious belief, would be rather impractical and ridiculous.

Worrying about offending people to this extreme (not using mythological names because someone somewhere is worshiping them still, even though we have tires and candy bars named after them) is unhealthy to me.

 

Hi everyone! Mind if I add one more thing?

As I said before, I'm Christian, so speaking for myself alone, I don't believe in other gods besides the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. But I have enjoyed studying Greek, Roman, and Norse mythology ever since I was young, and find the characters or gods within them to be fascinating. So sometimes I create stories about the various characters in mythology and try to imagine them as dolls. What would they look like? What would their personalities be?

Sometime in the future I'd love to have twin SD Nonos named Idun and Hebe, as the Norse and Greek goddesses of youth and innocence. To me, they wouldn't be named after actual goddesses, but mythological characters mixed with my own inspiration.

The naming of a doll is ultimately up to it's owner, and I respect that. I would never comment negatively about a doll's name unless it was really, really bad. And I'm very slow to anger so it would need to be something really bad. And I would never put someone down or harrass them for either their beliefs or the names of their dolls. I believe that Christ wants us to love everyone, no matter what their beliefs are.

Sorry if I've gotten off track. Anyway, what you name your doll is certainly your own choice, but I do recommend that (especially if you intend to post about them on a public forum like DoA) you at least take other people's feelings into consideration. Just think about it for a while. You are still free to choose any name, and I certainly won't bother you about your choice.

Thanks!