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Controversial Doll Stories?

Mar 3, 2010

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    1. Perhaps a Doll Forum is not appropriate for school? I don't recall using my school computers for personal use like that... misusing the computers alone would have been enough to send ME to the office! ;)

      Like it has been stated before by many others, it is largely a matter of taste (and skill) regarding the delivery of sensitive subject matter. I can attest, I dont even read photostories because 98% of them make me groan. I tried making one of my own once, but found the whole thing too ackward and clumsy, and decided against using my dolls as storytelling tools.


      But regarding this "exposure" to material that might be deemed offensive... DoA is a PUBLIC forum... its about as social as the internet can be. When dealing with other people, there is always a risk that someone is going to offend you in some way. People wear offensive shirts all the time, and girls wear clothes that some might thing are too revealing (I swear, working at Claire's, I saw a girl bend over and the back of her hooly-hoo was hanging out). What about people in real life who have disfigurements and scars? Should these people be forced to cover their faces or arms to protect other's delicate sensibilities? Sometimes, a person happens upon images that they dont like. Its a price you pay for interacting with others. While you feel that the thread should have had a disclaimer, perhaps the person making the thread thought they were not warning-worthy... are either of you to blame? I personally dont think so. Its entirely subjective, and unfortunately,many members of this forum live in a hypersensitive culture where the the feelings of the viewer are taken more into account than they possibly should... you dont like seeing the fat lady wearing a bikini on the beach? Look the other direction. ;D
       
      #61 Chuuie, Mar 9, 2010
    2. Times have changed and we are allowed to use the internet freely after we have finished with our assignment. I am a fast worker and am highly trusted by my teachers, so they really don't care what I do.

      I understand what you're saying, but sometimes I feel as though being "Public" doesn't have enough restrictions. Everyone should be free to do what they want, with the concept that sometimes there are some people that MAY be offended by it. People need to realize that they can't do or say whatever they want without consequence. I understand that it's not possible to please everyone all the time, but perhaps there should be some more sufficient warnings for people to attempt to save some people the pain of being offended.

      It's not so easy to "look the other way". I myself found that comment offensive, because you never know why someone might be overweight. You don't know what they went through in their lives. And it's their choice whether or not to wear a bikini.
      If I saw someone doing something that was emotionally tolling to me in their story or gallery posts, I don't think I could so easily look away and forget about it.

      I just think people are becomming more and more inscensitive to the thoughts and lives of others....
       
      #62 I<3MySD, Mar 9, 2010
    3. I dont understand what is offensive about describing something that some people find offensive? Did anyone get up in arms about mentioning vampires?

      I made no comment about the quality of overweight people, or why X person might be overweight, just using it as a basic example of something that many people find offensive/displeasing that sometimes occurs in a public area. Even though this one might strike a nerve with you, I dont understand what makes it different or too sacred to mention as opposed to many other 'controversial' things. Being fat and brave enough to wear a bikini is something that I think is applaudable, but that doesnt mean EVERYONE else likes it.

      "

      First, this makes being fat seem like the horrific result of domestic abuse or some other tragic event. As a fat chick, I can tell you, its not, and it isnt for most overweight americans. ;) For every hypothyroid, there are 5 girls like me who like milkshakes and hate jogging (or not, you never know, maybe most fat girls DO have some terrible thing that magically made them fat, and im the only one who 'earned' it) ;) Thats not knocking fat chicks, god knows I love being a curvy gal, but come on, it isnt like having progeria or something where theres some deep dark heartbreaking secret reason for looking different. It is what it is, and not everyone likes it.

      Second, in the same vein that you just defended the BBW bikini babes, regarding people who depict controversial things via their dolls, do YOU know whats going on in THEIR lives? Perhaps they ARE articulating some difficulty they have had in the past that you have no idea about? I think its unfair to seperate one 'offensive' thing from another, giving one special priveleges in favor over the other. Isnt it the doll owner's choice privelege to do what they want with theirs? A doll forum is a much more private thing than a beach, where you are more or less forced to be exposed to stimuli, whereas a doll forum, only a limited population is vulernerable to witnessing it.


      Personally, all in all, I see it as part of doll territory... its part of the subculture that many doll owners have cultivated... and being offended by it is like going to 4chan and being horrified by pedobear. I will say in defense of 4chan, they at least dont discriminate... they love all things offensive, and will make even the most harmless things grotesque ;)
       
      #63 Chuuie, Mar 10, 2010
    4. ,':<

      Honestly? I personally don't approve of anything that glorifies bad things (Nazism, violence against innocents, substance abuse, etc.) and to me there are just subjects you shouldn't touch without the right attitude and sensitivity (RL tradgedies, abuse victim survival, aborting of pregnancies, etc.). So long as the story is told well and without necessarily being 'for' anything, I have no problem.
       
      #64 KaitlynMutt, Mar 10, 2010
    5. The Nazism is one controversial doll concept that has me frustrated very, VERY often -- typically because of its rationale.

      If you objectively look at war crimes conducted during WWII, and "atrocities committed," I think is a term regarding Nazis in forums that include communities even outside of the doll hobby, technically any historical doll related to the military of any country involved in WWII should be banned -- Russian soldiers, Japanese, American, any other militia.

      I fight elaborating, only because I know it is not the common opinion to villainize each country in the war just as much as Germany. However, I do not think that Nazis should be singled out as the "super-villains" of WWII, because many other countries suffered greater tolls at the expense of other "atrocities" that typically go unrecognized in American portrayals of WWII history. Some, and I am even willing to venture to say most, Nazis were good men, fighting because they had to and were not aware of the results of their orders (much like any soldier during wartime), and I don't think the fact that a doll is wearing a specific uniform should automatically be regarded as antisemitic propaganda. Some owners are just genuinely fascinated by the history of the war, and would like to portray their doll with a complete concept in mind -- not for attention or stigma. There will always be people who wish to use shocking imagery solely for those purposes, but not everyone has that intent.

      I don't think there will ever be much of a solution to "everything or nothing" in terms of what is fair portrayal of things -- there will always be stigmas regarding certain things, and really it is a matter of picking and choosing where you post. It is unfortunate, as because of forum rules I cannot post pictures of one of my dolls due to the fact that he IS a Nazi, but I knew that when I signed up for DoA, and I can respect the Mod's decision of banning things that they would perhaps get in trouble for promoting or receive overwhelming complaint over.

      I don't think there will be much resolution to any of these stigmas, because with every statement one makes -- even if it isn't controversial in nature -- you risk offending at least one person whose views are divergent from yours. All you can do is post disclaimers, which I think should be protection enough against those who would be offended, but I recognize I am extremely liberal and do not offend easily. However, I love that this thread was started, and I am enjoying reading other people's opinions and views.
       
      #65 kneeknockers, Mar 13, 2010
    6. Im not bothered by stories that include murder, suicide, 'evil' historical figures & so on. There are things I dont approve of, like Satanism but I dont get all religious on them. Honestly, the only things that TRUELY make me angry are child pornography, an adult being with a child & rape. Its completly out of line & makes you wonder WHY the dolls owner would want, for example: A 30 year old man raping a 13 year old girl. Or a 12 year old boy going down on his teacher so he could "pass" a test, etc. Maybe its different from a younger doll owner whom might think older men/woman are attractive & daydream about sexual things but an adult thinking of these things needs help. And Im NOT saying the daydreaming child is right, but an adult should know better. By the way, Im 23.

      I have a 14/15 year old character in mind whom will be a younger sister to an existing doll and I could NEVER think of giving her a sexual story. I dont unless they are 19+. It just groses me out. A cute puppy love romance is the farthest Id go with her.

      One of my dolls will have scars from cutting he used to do in the past, but his story is about his struggle to become a happy person.

      I also have a vampire whom is 335years old (or 35 in human years) & he loves sexual pain. But he is an adult & doesnt get involved in "illegal" sexual activities. Not just because of laws, but also because he is ONLY attracted to one man, whom is only 5 years younger.
       
      #66 Sakuya86, Mar 14, 2010
    7.  
      #67 7777777luck, Mar 14, 2010
    8. Just a random question, but along that vein, does the movie 'Juno' gross you out too?
       
      #68 sailorstarsun, Mar 14, 2010
    9. juno doesnt gross me out, but kids having sex does. That movie wasnt all about a big sex scene. It was about the struggle she went through.
       
      #69 Sakuya86, Mar 14, 2010
    10.  
      #70 I<3MySD, Mar 14, 2010
    11. I<3MySD: And what is it that you are trying to solve?

      Perhapes my life isn't as hard as you would want for me to be passionate enough, but I understand that everyone is different and you should respect this by allowing people to think what they want -- however insensitive they may be, pouncing on their morals and degrading their life stories is not... Moral-full (to some people.)

      EDIT: I just realized this is unclear and can be taken as a personal attack. Here I'm talking about jumping onto thread you consider to be distasteful and lacking in morals, and attacking/lecturing/openly disapprove the owner. EDIT/end

      I think we need a gallery warning for every single little thing. Knowing what controversial is impossible to cover all the bases, so might as well just cover yourself by doing so. Now we have the "mild yoai" and what not, but there should be more clues to the photostory. We do have a normal standard for society; so based on that, even a girl depressed from bf or something should be labelled (even if it's just a phase)

      You're welcome, I just thought that maybe you haven't looked into "joining a cause" option.
      Again, what are you trying to solve? I think you should add this motivation to the first post of the thread, so everyone can see the point to the thread other than lashing out at nothing. (On that point, some examples help. Maybe give some keywords to type in, if the actual link might offend?)
       
      #71 7777777luck, Mar 14, 2010
    12. Good question. I second this.
      (hahaha, what an example to give! :P)
       
      #72 7777777luck, Mar 14, 2010
    13. I think the best solution for this is for DoA to make gallery warnings, rather they are specific like fetish, murder, suicide, etc. or just a general warning for something that may be offensive or 18+. Its true that everyone has their own say on what the dolls stories are, so maybe this can make things more fair or 'right'. Though I still feel strong about my anti-pedofilismness (made-up word but you get my point!) and STRONGLY feel it shouldnt be allowed.
       
      #73 Sakuya86, Mar 14, 2010
    14. It already *isn't*. There are clear guidelines about what is and is not allowed here, and that's one of them.
      them.
      Which I should add is a very good thing. It's actually one of the only things that bothers me in general, so I'm it isn't allowed. Some of the other things that aren't sort of make me *_*, but that's just me personally. I think the problem with trying to warn for every single little thing that could possibly offend anyone anywhere is that you pretty much cover everything and either no-one posts anything or you wind up with things like: Warning: doll wearing a cross, or Warning: doll with red outfit because both of those might *possibly* be offensive to someone. I guess my point is: It is just not possible to predict what is going to offend or otherwise negatively affect any particular individual. Take me, personally. I don't bat an eye at anything on I<3MySD's list except for pedophilia and bestiality, as well as one or two other things not listed. Those don't generally show up here, though, so it's sort of beside the point, but it goes to show you that you cannot say that X needs to be warned for when X is as unknown a quantity as it will inevitably be in a place like this. How are we to know if someone is offended by, say my tiny boy in his leather and fishnet but not my 70cm with the bullethole in his forehead or my fallen angel with black wings and red skin?
       
      #74 Hominivorax, Mar 14, 2010
    15. oh I know Im just speaking my mind since it was on the list of things I<3mySD made.


      BTW: "Vampires dont sparkle" .... I know right! -__-"
       
      #75 Sakuya86, Mar 15, 2010
    16. But here we run again into the "who makes that determination" problem. What is distressing to one person will not have any impact on another, and vice versa. It's pretty much impossible to predict everything that could possibly upset a viewer, and warn for it. In addition, these forums do not allow written stories to be posted, and the photos that are allowed are quite restricted in content, so many of the things being discussed in this thread don't really apply to DoA.

      I agree that warnings and labels should be applied whenever appropriate, but aside from the things DoA rules state MUST be warned for, people have to make for themselves the judgments about what warnings their threads need. Personally, I place (as needed) warnings on my photostories for violence or implied violence, nudity or suggestive content, and potentially offensive language. I don't place warnings for things like "yaoi" or "yuri," but that's because I don't post those here; I take them somewhere that I don't need to censor myself, because if I'm doing a yaoi or yuri photoshoot, it's definitely going to go beyond what DoA allows! (In fact, I rarely post in the Galleries here on DoA, simply because most of what I do isn't allowed here, and I'm fine with that. There are other venues in which I can share the things I've done with my dolls that would violate DoA's rules.) Do I sometimes come across things in the DoA Galleries that don't appeal to me? Sure! But I just click the "back" button, because I understand that others do not share my beliefs and values, and that I should not expect them to conform to or cater to those beliefs and values.

      That is a big assumption about anyone, and probably a highly offensive one, and stating that it's not one doesn't change that. Devaluing someone else's life experiences is not a good way to get a point across in any debate. Not everyone responds to stress, trauma, loss, and suffering in the same way. Not only do different people experience different things, but even people who experience things that are similar or practically identical are unlikely to react to the aftereffects of those things in the same ways. For example: I see people die all the time, often up-close, and often from gruesome injuries. I handle dead bodies on a regular basis, as a part of my work. I am used to people trying to hurt me - insulting me, cussing me up one side and down the other, spitting on me, biting me, hitting and kicking me, urinating on me, and more. I have been attacked, when I was alone in an empty building, by a man larger and older than I. And yet none of these things (dead bodies, violence, bodily fluids, bad language, etc) bother me personally if I come across them in photostories or writing, here or elsewhere. My experience with them has made me largely desensitized to them, rather than making me more distressed by them, as someone else might have become. But I'm made terribly uncomfortable by outright pronouncements of undying love and adoration, by relationships (especially romantic ones) with slave/master or DOM/sub aspects, by many religious topics from a variety of faiths, and by teenagers between the ages of 13 and 16 years old in just about any context. These things all have a basis in my life experiences, and while they may not be the experiences (out of all the ones I've had) that would have had an impact on someone else, they are the ones that had an impact on me. But I don't expect people to put warnings on their threads when their dolls are confessing their love for one another, or to tell me before I click that their thread contains pictures of a goth doll wearing some bondage gear along with its jangly-chained punk pants and fishnet shirt, or that I'm going to see their doll praying or performing a religious rite, because I know that these are things that many people may not be bothered by, and I know that I am responsible for what I'm looking at - by making a conscious choice to browse the Galleries, I am opening myself up to the possibility of seeing things I may not want to see.
       
      #76 Kiyakotari, Mar 15, 2010
    17. That's why I started this thread. That is a concept that I would have never thought that would have been offensive to anyone, and I'm glad you mentioned it. That's why I asked the question of what was offensive to whom-to see what kind of answers I would get.
      I do believe stating that I don't want to make an assumption about someone changes the fact however. It is a disclaimer. If I stated I didn't want to offend anyone by creating *blah* character and they had *blah* story, with a certain amount of sensitivity, I DO believe it would change how someone would veiw that character and myself as opposed to how they would veiw it without said disclaimer.

      Again, that's why I'd rather use generalized terms (I.e,; Sexual Contact, Graphic Violence, ect.), that could apply to a variety of different topics. That way there are no "deciders" on the little details and topics. I think that...let's say...categorizing some topics into certain groups could be a small step into offending less people.
       
      #77 I<3MySD, Mar 15, 2010
    18. I personally, am not offended by any dolls background. It's YOUR story, why should people beat you up over it? It only makes your doll more interesting! i think it's kind of stupid that these things must be labeled as controversial, but once again, my opinion. I have a very, very open mind. I love out of the ordinary dolls! Morbid, Nazi, mythical, drug abuser, rapist, murder, mistreated, ect. I think it gives each and every doll their own personality.

      Now, i'm not saying these things shouldn't be censored for younger members, or those with a younger mindset, but i don't think they're problems at all. And once again, just so i don't get attacked, My opinion.
       
      #78 Visirium, Mar 15, 2010
    19. I don't know I think that's whats nice about these dolls is that there is no clear line for what they can or can't be. OBVIOUSLY no barbie in history could pull off being a pedophile or a nazi but these dolls can because of how lifelike they are and how those topics, while unpopular, are real life things. Even if you don't WANT to see it, it's still possible to pull off with these dolls so long as you do so correctly.
       
      #79 gakwildcat, Mar 15, 2010

    20. Now THAT I'd like to see XD ...or maybe not.

      As other people have said, I think as long as it's handled with maturity, or at least artistic integrity, I find most things OK. I'd rather not read about stereotypical angsty cliche crap, so originality is a really important factor for me. Otherwise I feel people are kind of jumping on the angsty bandwagon and doing it for attention or TEH LULZ.

      Also I don't like it when people glorify things like rape and murder and things like that, trying to make them sexy and pretty and exotic. Rape and murder are UGLY HORRIBLE THINGS that people shouldn't just splash all over the place. That's not to say I'm against stories concerning them as long as they're done realistically. I don't like everything all shiny-happy-people, but if something's ugly, at least let it be ugly.

      I have a character who's a scary weirdo monster who has to consume flesh in order to remain incarnate. It's totally disgusting but that's how the story goes and how his character is, and so I don't try to make it pretty or sexy or whatever. It's gross and I portray it as gross, so in my mind I think it's acceptable because it's just what it is. Of course other people may find it offensive for whatever reason and I respect that. But I stick to the old adage of, if you don't like it, don't look! ^^;

      EDIT: Then again I spend a lot of time listening to Marilyn Manson and Murderdolls and all that stuff so my controversial threshhold is pretty high XD Also, I'm not about to change anything about my dolls, their characters, their story or myself, even if they do offend anyone, because there's nothing really that offensive about them. If you do something involving a potentially hugely offensive topic (Holocaust, 9/11 and so on) just don't post it- it's not worth it, really, IMHO. Otherwise, your dolls, your choice etc.
       
      #80 Harlequin-Elle, Mar 15, 2010
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