Controversial Doll Stories?

Having not read ALL of the previous posts, I'm not sure where this is going, but I am going to provide my personal opinion.
Sure, why not? I mean, it's your doll, isn't it? If people get offended, just calmly tell them you weren't trying to offend. Personally, I DO have a character that is a pedophile. I do have characters that are rape victims, one of which is a child, and I DO have them in doll form. (I hope that's not getting off topic, because these characters in particular aren't BJD's..but I think it still applies.)
If someone wants their doll to be like that, as long as they don't push it beyond the guidelines and post things in the forum that go beyond them, then they can do what they want. One of my (future) BJD's is in love with her twin brother, for example. Some people may be disgusted by this, some may be ok with it. But either way, it's my story.
That's just my view on things. I, by the way, am a Christian. Some people may say religion applies to these things. I don't think it does. I mean, things like that happen in real life, to real people. So why shouldn't they happen to our dolls?

 

This has been a very interesting thread to follow, with a lot of good points to think about. I really like seeing people using doll stories as a way, not to grab attention via hot topics, but to explore the human side of them.

As to the 'Nazism being a touchy subject'-- well, okay, obviously yes. Since the last time I was here, I've started writing a character who, because of his age, time period, and birthplace, lived through all that, and spent several years lying his ass off to avoid arrest. He carries around a lot of survivor's guilt, and a lot of guilt because he sees himself as a collaborator for not running off and joining a resistance somewhere and probably getting himself killed. And he grows up a little more over the years, and puts the worst parts of his past behind him as best he can. I've been struggling with whether or not to dollify him... he'd work out, but I'd never be able to dollify his partner, which limits stories I can do with him. Anyway, it's partially on-topic, moreso presuming I wind up deciding to shell him.

=^__^=
Anneko

 

Ah, the topic of controversy always arouses just that.

I personally see no problem in controversial stories. I'm sure you're meaning all of this, DOA rules aside. Not about posting it or anything, just the storyline in general.

There are a lot of reason for people to post controversial stories. They could be real, past experiences, things they've always wondered about, or perhaps enjoy it just for general dramatics. Whatever the reason, I don't think it really matters. If someome deems it wrong (hot topics such as suicides, bestiality, shota/loli, etc), then they do. But they can't change the type of story you come up with for your doll just as much as you can change theirs. They may be dolls, but a good chunk of people like to give their realistic stories, or even just stories they deem fit the dolls character.

But as it has been said, there are topics in which DOA doesn't approve of, thus other doll sites should be sought out. However, yeah. I don't see a problem with it. It is, after all, YOUR doll.

 

I dont`like Storys like: Uke gets raped by Seme and they realize, that they fall in love with each other.
Rape isnt cute =.=

In my opinion, it is not reprehensible to have a controversial doll story. It is reprehensible when you are not allowed to critizice it.

 

Out of curiosity, how would a doll story interfere with someone else's rights? I agree that there is a line when it comes to stepping on other people's rights, but with doll stories it's really a matter of whether or not you want to read it. The worst that's going to happen with a doll story is that someone might feel offended, but going through life never being offended isn't really a right. There are very real things in this world to worry about, and people need to pick their battles. Even if someone sees a story they don't like, that story makes very little difference in the grand scheme of things. I do believe strongly in freedom of expression which means tolerating things which I may not personally agree with (and I would hope that people could be as considerate when it comes to the things I write). If a story is not doing any measurable harm, then I see no reason to try and stop the owner -- they are within their rights, and I can apply the back button on my browser and go look at something else. Besides, there's always going to be somebody, no matter how hard you try, that is going to for some reason be offended -- there's only so much walking on eggshells a person can realistically do.

Um, no. We're talking fictional stories here, not the autobiography of the dolls' owner. I get really tired of people assuming some kind of 1:1 correlation between the doll's story and the owner's real life. A lot of people are nothing like their dolls.

A lot of things people complain about in doll stories also appears in plenty of other genres such as movies and fiction where they seem to receive far less flak. Doll stories are no different than any other kind of story, so you can't expect there to be nothing dark or controversial in bjd land -- considering the number of people here who write, roleplay, create their own comics etc, it's natural that they will bring their interests in storytelling and character creation to dolls and not all stories are happy ones and not all characters are nice guys.

 

Taco: You could argue the right of someone's psychological and emotional safety...the right to not be confronted with sensitive matter EVERYWHERE you go. A lot of forums on many topics don't allow specific descriptions of suicide, rape, and violence for the emotional sakes of its members. Personally I would avoid those topics but what if you weren't warned? This is where the whole controversy on labeling threads and stuff comes in.

 

People are bothered by and are more sensitive to different things, though -- it's not always possible to not offend even when you try, and it's not realistic (or particularly fair or desirable) to keep everything on the net at a PG13 level. This is largely an adult hobby, and while not all adults are interested in super graphic material, they may be more likely to tackle subject matter that maybe less black and white, less nicey nice and contain some controversial elements.

I want to make it clear that I'm not against staying within forum boundaries (DoA being PG13 for instance) and warning people about graphic subject matter at all. However, perusing the web always brings some risk that you'll see something that you don't like (general you here). However, I would rather take that risk than have everyone be limited as to the types of stories and characters they create -- which also leads to the question of who decides what subject matter is too offensive.

Creators should be thoughtful enough to label their stories-- that to me is basic etiquette. However, some responsibility has to also fall on the viewer -- if they really need to avoid certain subject matter, it's going to be up to them to take whatever precautions are necessary, because there is no guarantee. A place like DoA that has specific rules and includes younger members is much safer territory from the get go, but when you start talking about 18+ forums and private journals and websites things aren't always going to be so sanitized.

I would like to point out yet again (because I really dislike double standards) that doll fiction is not so different than other types of fiction -- you'll find the same subject matter and themes at your local bookstore or movie rental. Not all books/movies/doll photostories and related fiction are aimed at a general audience -- there are specific people they're geared to. So someone might be very bothered by anything that falls in the horror genre, or that deals with war, which is fine, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't be created or that the people who are interested in those genres shouldn't have access. The fact that many doll owners bring over their characters and story lines from their writing/roleplaying/comics etc should show the difficulty in holding the doll hobby to some other standard.

 

In my opinion, if it's 'your' doll, you should be able to do whatever you want with it. I, personally, wouldn't pair a larger doll with my Tiny, or have anthro dolls, but if that is what you want to do with your doll's story, that is your own choice.

In terms of nazi characters or perhaps a racist character... again, it's your doll. I think the only thing I would have to say about it is if you had the guts to post the information about it online, don't throw a fit when other people get angry.

I have gay characters and I get unhappy people telling me that it's wrong. I don't get mad because I know when I post pictures of them that some people are going to disagree with me. You just need to realize when you post something that isn't widely acceptable that people are going to get upset about it - especially if it deeply offends them.

 

I think creating scenes with dolls is a great outlet for expressing ideas and desires that would otherwise be inappropriate or impossible. Of course, I might not choose to view a photostory of bestiality or something else I considered offensive (so warnings are nice) but I don't see anything wrong with it being created. Of course, ratings and over-18 checks may be appropriate depending on the content.

 

Everyone's morals vary and the first risk is making a storyline. Everyone has a basic idea for a basic character but to mold and sculpt the history is making your dolly come alive.
For one, I don't see how morally wrong it is to make a character that pertained Nazism. I mean we still have racists in the world today so why would that world be bound and restricted by the doll world? And just because your doll's story might seem offensive doesn't mean it directly links to your thoughts and opinions.
And as for the pedophilia issue, I figure it's their problem not yours. I've seen boys my age who look well into their 20's and stand heads above me. I mean we try to bring real life into our dollies but the people who've rejected the "real" aspect of life disapproves of them (I'm not trying to sound mean that's just how it reads out to me)
And little anthros with tinies shouldn't be a problem because as I've said, its your dolls, your stories. I mean, there's a lot worse things out in the world, on the internet (furry porn? Gross.) than a sweet-faced tiny and an anthro.

 

it's YOUR doll, and you can do whatever you want with them. for me all of my dolls stories or backgrounds, i dont just make up, it seems to come with my characters, it might sound weird, but i feel like i dont come up with their back story, they do, and they tell me. so whatever happens to them, they made it happen. i dont want to sound crazy or anything though, and i hope some of you can understand what im saying, ^^"

 

Pretty much as a LOT of people have said: It's your doll, you do as you wish with it. It is good to respect the rules of the forum which do label what is acceptable and what is not. I looked, and it seemed clear to me. If you know its acceptable but some may not like it, put a warning on it. You should just know that there will be people that, even if you put a warning all over it, will look and will go on a tangent about how insulting it was, or graphic, or whatever. I see it everywhere. On the other hand, one will always be faced with things they do not like, things that insult them, things they don't think belong in a particular place. I say to both sides: Get over it. It's what happens when you have a place that gives anonymity to billions of people who can say what they want when they want...and a lot of them have no tact.

Now, personally, I like controversial stories of any kind. Life is hard, and its wrought with pain, sadness, all that. People are abused, raped, people abuse drugs, are murdered, it happens. Writing about a life in which nothing bad happens is just not realistic. Admittedly, my first doll's character will have a pretty brutal history; most of my characters do. It just needs to be done tactfully, using research.

 

I do happen to have a height difference between dolls. I did the math... and if MSD is five foot tall, then SD is like 6 feet tall... or something like that. But there are plenty of full grown men who are 5 feet tall. Heck there are sports that glorifies that height. Can you imagine a male figure skater (or a jockey) dating a model or a basketball player? In the words of the great Yoda, "Judge me by my size do you?"

So says a 5'1" married to a 6'1". I be of Hobbit height.

Sorry... I kinda take the height issue personally due to my being vertically challenged. "You must be a kid because you're short" grates on my nerves.

 

I honestly have to disagree with this- I don't think that most often that is the case- it usually seems like (as others have pointed out) people use these things as a way to add angst or explore a taboo for the sake of their own enjoyment. Again- since I assume many of us live in 'free' countries, you can do as you like, but that also means that I reserve the right to not have to see that stuff or wade through it on a forum where it isn't generally allowed/encouraged.

I personally think that it is somewhat ignorant to use a situation so taboo when one has never had any personal experience with that situation and couldn't possibly understand the complexity of the emotional response to such a thing. However, like I said: we can all do as we like. That's my personal opinion which I have a right to, same as you have a right to do whatever you want with your stuff- that's why they have forums where that kind of thing is acceptable. Go share it where people want to see it.

As for the Nazism issue: as someone who's dealt with racism for their entire life, I don't think I'd ever be interested in anything about it. Lets face it- yes, it exists in the world. Yes, life is sad- but when I play with my damn dolls I don't really want to think about life. That's me. That said, fine. Do what you want- they are yours after all, but don't bother begging me not to be offended, and don't bother trying to sneak it in barely disguised as something else. If you've got something to say, you ought to say it and get it over with: so long as it doesn't violate the rules of the forum, there's nothing I can do about it is there? Besides violently ignore it and feel a little sadder about the way of things. Again though, that's my problem. To you it's just history, to me it's everyday- but what does that matter to free speech?

 

This. I'm short, and I spend a lot of time with some very tall people. Not all MSD/SD couples have an age difference, they just have a height difference!

=^__^=
Anneko

 

I find it offensive that Paganism and Homosexuality are on the list of 'Controversial Topics'. If Paganism is on there then Christianity should be on there as well - and every other religion as well, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam etc. People who know what Paganism is all about or people who are members of the religion / belief structure don't find it 'Controversial' at all.

Why is only the one viewpoint legitimate as to what is 'Controversial'? Same with Homosexuality - many people don't find it 'Controversial' at all - I personally think promoting it as such marginalises Gays & Lesbians. Please - it's the 21st Century - we should all grow up! If you want to go through life pretending these things don't exist or that it's bad because you don't like it then you should stay off the internet all together so you're not "exposed" to "bad things".

 

Of course there is a place in art for controversial themes. What I think has no place, however, is the fetishism of such topics.

For example, I'm sure everyone can agree that there are good ways to cover topics of abuse, or controversial figures such as Nazis. However, when one fetishizes the topics, such as the hurt/comfort aspect of abuse or the extreme control of Nazism, I feel personally that it becomes inappropriate.

These topics also become "shortcuts" to character development for lazy writers, so that is another issue I can see.

Of course, none of this stops anyone from doing what they want with their own time.

 

i think this is a great subject to debate. I agree with a good many of the people on here who do not offend easily but understand the need for warnings and sensitivity. I run a doll character rp site and we are 18+, in large part of our openess for people to explore and share their 'dark' or 'controversial' back stories and stories in progress. With that said, there have been some instances where I have been called upon to ask someone to cool down or 'reign in' their stories. Why? Sensitivity, and legal issues. For example, recent legislation in the USA basically includes shota and lolicon as real child pornography, so backstories including that can't be portrayed. Mentioned callously? Iffy. Mentioned sensitively? Usually acceptable. The same with rape. A lot of people include it, but the degree of sensitivity really shapes the situation. One person had a rape/incest backstory done incredibly offensively, and actual rape victims were deeply offended. While it was and is that person's right to have the story, it was decided the venue was inappropriate due to circumstances.
My own character has a very dark side, her childhood was not great or especially moral, and she's fallen in love with a murdering mobster with mental illness and no recognition of sexual taboo. I've only mentioned it once, just now, as a point. Most of her stories are not about her dark side, but the character's limits are shaped by her negative and positive experiences, just like people's are in real life.

I think i'm digressing and i apologise for that, but what i suppose i'm trying to get at is the 'there's a time and a place for everything' theory.

 

I know how you feel. I'm a 20 year old who stands at a full 4'9. The day I stop getting children menus is the day I believe the world will end.

On to the topic.
I agree with what most people are saying with "there is a time and a place". My dolls have a range of "dark themes" from lab expreimentation, to teen pregnancy. I always would put a warning up for anything I wouldn't show to my preschool drama class. If they can't see it, it needs a warning.

I think that's a fairly good rule of thumb as far as my photography goes.....if I wouldn't want my children or class seeing it, others probably agree.

However, that being said, I don't believe paganism (as I am a pagan myself) or homosexuality being taboo or dark. Religion is religion. If it was showing an Aztec ritual human sacrifice I might consider putting a warning up. But let's be honest, Christians show a bleeding dead guy on a cross.....and there's no warning there. And homosexuality as a dark adult theme? Ridiculous. If I was showing a full sex scene, yes, that would be adult, but two men or two women holding hands, different story.