Controversial Locations - Where do YOU draw the line?

I've photographed my dolls in graveyards, but it felt inappropriate simply because it was a public space... people might see me and the light was terrible anyhow.

Obviously I'm not religious nor sentimental about graveyards. They're for the living, ultimately, why not use them for photographs? Strange but there's often a lot of great sculptural art there, which you don't find elsewhere. What does that say about our society? Amazing! ...and no ads!

>:-/
Raven

ETA (because I was tired lol) : Though photographing dolls on graves is an unorthodox way of enjoying the beauty and tranquility of a cemetery, I don't see it as inherently disrespectful. I hope I am never put in a "grave" (real estate should belong to the living in this age of overpopulation), but if I were I wouldn't mind it a bit if someone were to use my gravestone for an artistic purpose.

 

Statues or benches and shrubs in graveyards seem to be more acceptable but right on top of a stranger's grave is more than disrespectful. It may be pretty but that is no excuse to trespass; you could end up damaging or defacing the tombstone.

A graveyard is a place of peace and rest. I'd probably -and already have- been a hypocrite and traipsed through them. I haven't taken pictures with my doll but I have taken pics of the tombstones. I don't think snapping shots is disrespectful...just touching and fiddling with them for your doll's sake is.

 

Exactly.

As a photographer by hobby, I don't feel any place in appropriate. Photographs are supposed to capture moments and express something timeless. If photo journalists in Vietnam are taking pictures of a man being executed to share the wars, I don't think there is a place that is sacred for photographs. And no, not even dolls.

 

I've used the statuary in graveyards for photos, but not graves themselves. I appreciate the art that's in graveyards, so I don't see anything wrong in photographic the art

 

I'm also not religious so I don't think the graveyard is an inappropriate place for photos. I find them quite mysterious. I don't really think I can think of some place inappropriate for photos. Photos are art and are made to capture a moment so I think any place is great. ^_^

 

Interesting, I was thinking of taking my doll to the local cemetery for a few shots and this actually came up in my head - who could I possibly be offending by doing this?
I was wanting to use the older gravestones as elements in the pictures but it makes me wonder if I could actually be persecuted for it if I say, posted the pictures on the internet. I don't want people hounding me for disrespecting their great-great-great-great grandparent's grave by photographing it.

Me personally, I wouldn't mind if someone took pictures of my grave with dolls or people or whatever. I'd be dead, and I wouldn't care, and I'm sure my family wouldn't harrass them over it. But I understand others have different opinions about their and their family's graves so yeah. I might just go ahead with it and if someone does bother me about it, I'll apologise and remove the pictures from wherever they are hosted.

 

I am very aware of people's graves and make sure always to step around them, between them, but never over them when I go to visit those who have passed on. But I also like to go to cemeteries I have no family in and look at the headstones to see the stories of the people buried there.

People do 'gravestone rubbings' as a hobby and then they are actually touching the gravestones themselves not just placing a doll in front of it and photographing it. I don't think I would have too much trouble if I found someone posing a doll in a respectful mourning pose on my family's graves. If they were posed in sexual ways I would have BIG issues with it. I think if it's done respectfully it is fine.

As for other inappropriate places, the reason for this thread to begin with, I think on a church altar would be terrible, and I am a different faith, but it would still bother me. I think it would be worse yet to pose it on a cross which is already inhabited by a statue of Jesus. I can understand a pose on an empty cross if posed in the manner of Jesus as a sort of homage to Jesus as many photographers do with human models, but sitting on an occupied cross or something like that would be offensive.

That's just my opinion though, other opinions may vary

 

Graveyards are, to me, sacred places. I don't think there is anything wrong with being in the graveyard if you're there for the right reasons. Going to the graveyards to pick up trash, report damage, replenish flowers or rake leaves because there aren't enough people to maintain the yard or going simply to be at peace with your own fear of mortality are fine by me, but going because you're on a ghost hunt or because that's "what all the cool goth kids do" is wrong. I feel that dolls are included in the latter category. It's so easy to replicate a graveyard out of wood or foam or Halloween decorations to better suit a doll photo shoot. There is a time and a place for dolls, and a time and a place for photographs. The only graveyards I make an exception for are the tourist attraction ones where the graves are actually not graves at all but memorials. Even the art in graveyards is there in remembrance of people. I don't have anything against people who take purposeful photos in graveyards, but I get very angry when they lack the tact to tell what should and shouldn't be done for a picture. I've gotten on people's cases for taking pictures of themselves picking the angels' noses or doing the YMCA with Jesus on the cross. I am religious, but even if I wasn't, there's no call for that. As far as dolls go, if you have to take pictures of your dolls at certain graves, either try to get permission before you lay your resin all over it, re-create the grave out of something else, somewhere else or use one of your family's graves. You'll be surprised how many people react positively to your request. I'll admit that I took some doll pictures in a graveyard, but I took them because I missed my grandfather and thought that showing him my doll and taking pictures of the doll cleaning up the grave site would cheer me up and help make Vincent more accepted in the family. I'll admit, I felt a lot better after having done so. My grandfather would have loved Vincent.

Kind of a rant, sorry. As far as my own grave, if I have one, I always wanted my grave to be a well built, singular swing. I had kind of a rough home life, and whenever things got too bad, I'd go to the park, swing on the park's one swing and daydream about all kinds of things. I was always very happy there. I would want to share that happiness with others. Even now when I get too lonely or have had a tough day, I find a park, swing on the swing set and think about all those little questions that pop up in the silence.

As for other inappropriate places, I feel strongly about bringing dolls to churches for pictures. I could see maybe taking photos outside the church, and even then as an innocent thing, meaning the doll is dressed modestly and posed respectfully and not covered in arcane symbols. Inside the church is, to me, a no go. Unless it's your wedding/funeral or a family members wedding/funeral and they don't mind them there, there's no reason why a doll should be in an occupied church. If there happens to be a ruined church out there, I don't really mind quite as much. Churches are easy to replicate in miniature, so I don't see any reason why a particular shot would simply HAVE to be taken inside a church.

 

I just like to make the point that I don't think it's the people that are dead that you are disrespecting but the living friends and family of that person. Seriously, if I am dead I don't care if you put your doll on my grave but if it hurts my family's feeling or memories of me that is disrespectful.

 

I consider mindset worse than actions. If someone took pictures involving a grave for the purpose of shocking people, that's wrong for so many reasons. If someone found the area beautiful, felt it could add atmosphere, or wanted to portray something, I'd have no problem with it. There are gravestones in the shapes of benches because when people died, they were friendly enough to desire people to have the perfect view, or to have company. I'd rather have a cracked, unkept, popular-for-photos-or-goths grave area than a neat and lonely 'resting place.'

Though when it comes down to it, I get confused when religous people are defensive about graveyards or churches... I'd think enjoying ones self in the presence of god would be more important than staying away from the place because you're worried of offending someone. (unless people are holding a private ceremony, of course) If I saw a beautiful statue or painting, I'd be happy to incorparate my doll, another important aspect of my happiness and appretiating for beauty. If I noticed it and particulatly thought no, this is wrong I'd be denying how special the place felt.

(I hope that didn't go OT )

 

Sorry, I don't see where there's a difference between "tourist attraction" graveyards and other graveyards. A graveyard is a graveyard and graves are graves. At least, here in Europe. Is it ok in general to take pics of graves and graveyards? I think it is. I don't know about the States but here in Europe, we got some really beautiful graveyards. It would be a shame if you couldn't take home pictures of them to show to other people. Is it ok to take pics of your doll in graveyards? I'd say yes to that, too.

With art - and I see doll-pics as a kind of art - what's acceptable or not (or good taste or not) is always a matter of personal opinion. Something that I think great might be offensive to someone else. Someone might go "wow" about Joseph Beuys - I simply can't see the point of his works. I understand how some people can be offended by certain kinds of art or certain artworks. But I think that's just in the nature of art.

I probably wouldn't take pics of my doll(s) in graveyards but that's more due to the fact that I usually don't like taking them out. I did take a pic of Luken looking at a grave, though, at our Dollce-mini-meet-up in October.

 

I'm totally with sister-of-charity's post. Well, for some it might not be a big deal and you wouldn't mind yourself if it happens to you, but we are all different and not all people are into art. Let's give a little respect for those families who cares, cleans, and bring flowers for those grave sites. I guess taking a picture of the graveyard as a whole is fine, but taking a picture on an individual grave site is not good. It's true that those people who died there don't give a damn about it, but the families they have left does. Doesn't mean it's okay with you, it's already okay for others. Let's not wait for someone to approach us before we decide to stop. Respect is not only available to religious people.

 

Cliché, maybe, but inappropriate? Hardly. I find it quite silly to think that photographs of what is really nothing more than carved stone to be off-limits from a camera, particularly when there is no harm involved.

 

Well, to be a little more detailed, it's a carved stone that signifies, "here lies a body rotting six feet under, and your doll is stepping on it"

Having said that, I think there's no harm in dolls + photography in graveyards, especially those that have been styled in a way that seems to welcome visitors and sightseers. Photos that are taken for shock value though (dolls boinking away on a grave) I would find distasteful.

However, that personal opinion of mine is in contrast to my upbringing. I do come from a rather culturally different background from most of what I'm seeing here. For us, the resting ground of our ancestors and family are sacred. If it's cremation, then the temples holding the ashes are solemn quiet places where photographs aren't exactly welcomed. Playing with dolls and taking photographs in a cemetery would be considered distasteful and disrespectful at the very least.

But again, different social and cultural background. Our cemeteries aren't made for the living or visitors and it shows.

 

This is a hugely interesting debate, I come from a very mixed religious background, some of my family are dyed in the wool Roman Catholics, some Anglican a couple of Agnostics; my maternal grandmother was Lutheran, my paternal grandmother non-christian; my brother chose to be Baptist and I myself am happily a product of all of these combined though Baptised Church of England and my best friend is a Jehovas Witness.

I think that photographs in a cemetery, momorial, graveyard or burial lawn are all touchy places in one way or another. I have seen some photographs in the Gallery of cemetery photoshoots, one of which was poignant and looking at it I felt a true sense of emotion as the photographer had purveyed the grief and loss so beautifully I shed a tear.

Another I had seen I found to be rather bland and without any meaning whatsoever as I felt the photographer had just thought : "cool dead people and my wicked looking dolls".

The first was a homage to how we each deal with our grief and the loss of loved ones, the second was I felt for the shock value and completely tasteless...

So in direct answer to the question, I'm of the opinion that providing thought care and a deep sense of respect to the beliefs of those who built these burial grounds; regardless of your personal religious beliefs are put into the photographs. They in themselves can be a show of respect for the deceased. On the other end of the spectrum however I am in total opposition that for the sake of shock value one would be best to build something representative rather than risking offending someone to greatly.

Me personaly though... I'd love when I've passed for everyone to bring their dollies to meet me... it'll be lonely without them

 

If it's going to be bothersome to people around me or unsafe for my dolls then I would consider it not a good location.

I don't have a problem with graveyard shoots--as long as the person taking the pics is respectful of other people that might be there, I don't see an issue. Nothing is being destroyed, nobody interrupted (I think it's safe to assume that people aren't taking pictures while a family is trying to visit the same grave site). As others have pointed out, people will often go to cemeteries to look at, photograph, do rubbings of some of the older graves which can be very interesting. Unless you're making a loud obnoxious spectacle of yourself, I don't see how snapping a few doll pics is any different. A lot of it comes down to using common sense--pick a spot where there aren't a lot of people around, or come back later when there's less visitors.

Here's a question for you: If you take doll pics in a graveyard and no one is around, is anybody really going to be offended?

 

I've went to graveyards a few times to take doll pictures, usually to a old cathedral thats not too far away, the graves are 100's of years old and the remains of the old stone work is amazing
I dont think I have done anything disrespectful by taking these pictures, if the dolls were doing certain things at the graves that would be a different matter, but they were not doing anything unpleasant
It all depends what you do, I feel, I dont really want to take pictures at young graves, The graves I love to look at are usually very old and alot of work has went into them and I love how time has weathered them
As long as I am not doing anything rude/disrespectful with the dolls near these graves I think its fine to take photographs
Another thing, I am very unlikely to upset anyone by taking pictures at these old graves, the only attention they get from anyone is when the graveyard gardener is doing his job to keep the place tidy

 

i agree. Although, you must admit, cemetary guards are sneaky guys and kinda pop out when you least expect them.

I think as long as the photographs are taken in a respectful way--both to the dead ant eh living--theres no harm in it.

Of course, i'm also one of those kids who spent a lot of time in a graveyard when i was in early highschool. There was a beautiful cemetary right by my friends house, and we would often take walks trhough there. Granted, there were times that our intentions werent clear or exactly pure, looking back, but we were never disrespectful of any of the people or graves. (aside from the day we hid behind a few graves because teh guard scared the crap out of us. But thats OT, and what we get for wandering around at night >>;; )