Controversial Locations - Where do YOU draw the line?

@Taco: I'm sure there are people in this area that wouldn't look at me funny...I just haven't met them. It's great that you have positive experiences though. I remember one time a friend had a doll in a Denny's and some teenage boys were trying to start crap : /

I don't take my dolls out at all anyway so perhaps that's why, when near doll owners, I kinda gauge the reaction of the passerby? I dunno D:

 

I agree with this on the fact there is tons of Graveyard pics out there that are ART!. i also thing as dolls as an art tool or an art piece, so why not take pics in a grave yard or church? or any other "holy" place? to me that is fine. same with museums and other places.
should it be done repectfully? yes. but at the same time if there is a good reason behing it i'm open to listen.

Photos are art and history. they are ment to please or to shock, or record history. that is about all photos are for.

 

This is a good point... because, while I'm not going to go out and harass the living, it does seem that most of my family's traditions concerning cemetaries are in respect to the dead, not the living. We wouldn't go tap-dancing across any historical grave any more than we would a more recent one... and that's entirely to do with the dead buried there, not the living coming to see them.

Of course, my grandparents had us wearing our pajamas inside out on St. Patty's eve to ward off Banshee, wearing costumse on Halloween and carving Jack-O-Lanterns to keep the spirits away and leaving out bowls of cream... so they kind of instilled in us this sense that the unseen world is still moving all around us.

 

I know a church in the Netherlands where is going to be a Gothic-fair in a few weeks. XD
IN the church.

I like to take pictures of churches and Graveyards. When I was in Rome I shot many pictures. (how tourist like )
However when I'm at such places I feel very much respect for something bigger than me. That also goes for art.
Churches are art to me.

I have also mixed feelings about doll shoots on a graveyard.
Dead is still and always will be a painfull subject.
There is a beautifull graveyard near me, years ago I took pictures there. (not with dolls)
I took them with very much respect. Graveyards are not just 'pretty' to me. I can feel the sadness of it. Also the peace and beauty in sadness.
When I look back at my pictures I still feel very emotional about them. I don't knew any of the dead who where laying there, but somehow I feel closer to them. By reading their gravestones, and seeing personal things that where left by loved ones.
Really it touched me. Made me feel closer to humans in general.
I love to see it back in my pictures.

I don't think I will ever take my dolls there. I would love to, because the trees there are more beautiful than in a regular forest.
But I wouldn't feel comfortable with it.
Even though I don't want any gravestone on my doll pictures, it's the location I wont feel comfortable with a doll.

 

I braved the public eye with something other than a puki in my pocket for the first time only a few days ago in my new little town to take some pics of Suomy (Lusis) at one of our many many parks and a bunch of skaters pulled up and were heckling and talking as though I couldnt hear, untill I asked if I could get some shots of her on the skate ramp ledge standing between all their feet. They were totally wigged out but said yes and then demanded to see her bosom... I had to laugh!!

I just had a thought, controversial probably > someone elses garden/house etc... if they werent there? Would you consider it controvery to use someone front yard knowing they were away or taking pics inside their homes if you were say... taking in the mail whilst they were on vacation?

edit: We ate in a restaraunt in Scottland called The Crypt where the floor was paved with original headstones and the decor was statues and epitaphs from peoples tombs etc.... No bodies beneath obviously, but does this constitue the same sort of "disrespect" as photos on a used grave? Just curios...

 

What about a totally non-sacred place, like a store? I see people's pictures all the time, with dolls next to merchandise in stores. Is it just me, that I notice that shop owners and even big chain store employees don't want you taking pictures? For whatever reason, it seems to be taboo. How do you feel in-store photographs affect the other people around?

 

@Whitewings: I'm glad yours turned out to be a good experience though it didn't start out that way :3 I have to say the way these guys were lingering over my friend...it just seemed a bit on the offensive side.

Hmmm...that would depend upon the people I would think. I wouldn't do it with, say, my neighbor's yard even though we take care of eachother's mail and offer to help eachother now and then simply because...I don't actually know anything about him. However, at a good friend's house where they are like your second family...that's different. But again it depends on the people really. Some are just more open then others.

Though some might find that offensive I personally don't because I think of graveyards as more for the living. I think some of it just has to do with the different ways people have been brought up.

@Blue Ghost: Though some stores just might not like it I know for major corporations like Wal-Mart photography is not allowed for a different reason. It has a certain term but I can't think of it at the moment. Basically they think you are really taking pictures of the merchandise itself to gather information for other stores as this does actually happen. Depending on what associate walks by will depend on if you will be watched or not.

 

I've seen in-store photos before but I wouldn't do it in big supermarkets that might object to photography of any sort and also, in case I'm in the way.

I would definitely not take pictures of the insides of anyone's house without their permission. I don't feel that's controversial so much as infringing on their property and privacy. Even if I had the right to troop around their house to bring mail in, I didn't get the permission to snap photos of their house and put them up for the public eye to see.

As for gardens...gardens are a little different because most gardens are visible by anyone walking down the street. Of course, I wouldn't climb a gate to take pictures on a private property. O_O But if I had permission to be in the garden...well, I'm a bit of a nature-photography-lover and I've snapped photos of gardens and flowers at houses of friends and relatives. So yes, that would be a different story.

 

Generally speaking, I wouldn't use someone else's house or yard without their permission. Cemeteries are public property and anyone can visit one. Houses and gardens are not public places, and therefore permission should be obtained first. Now if it were a close friend or relative and I had reason to be there (like watering the plants or what have you), that's a little different--I know them well enough to know if snapping a few photos would bother them or not. Someone I didn't know as well...I wouldn't be so comfortable with.

 

I'm with Taco about taking snaps inside someone's home...unless I know them really well and I mean really well, I wouldn't take snaps inside unless before the person who goes away gave me permission first. The same goes for someone's yard. I would be too nervous to get caught lol! Also, it's disrepectful to just go inside someone's yard that you don't know and even if you kind of do, I'd still want permission.

As far as taking pics with dolls at a newer grave site, not all pics are out of the question...for example, it's not so wrong if you really knew the person. I once saw a beautiful tribute to someone's mother who had passed on and thought it was the most touching layout. All of the dolls were gathered around and paying tribute. I think her mother liked her daughters' dolls so I thought that was very sweet. However, if I didn't know the person very well, I would freign from taking snaps at the newer tombstones but the older ones, I don't have an issue with.

 

I dont know if anyone has addressed this, but in the 1800s they considered graveyards similiar to parks. You go there to have picnics, you have friendly chess games etc, mingle with friends. Yes, on top of peoples graves. Its only in this modernized society that we try and have self righteous thought for the gravestones. A cemetary should be a happy place. a celebration of being in the better afterlife. To me, I dont find it disrespectful unless you are making out or something.

 

I'm surprised at how many people said "I'm not religious so it doesn't bother me" what does religion have to do with it? I'm not religious, and it does bother me. Sorry but when I'm dead and gone and someone wants to put their doll on my grave for a photo shoot I'd be pretty grumbly. If I showed up at the graveyard to visit my son and someone was using his tombstone for anything other than to document his life I'd be livid. Religion has nothing to do with respecting the dead that you have nothing to do with.

 

Okay, so how about if it is a really OLD graveyard? One of those derelict ones where no one even visits anymore. Sometimes they're tucked away in a country corner and not near a church - who knows why. I know of a couple of them in rural Pennsylvania that only have a few graves and a rickety wrought-iron fence around them. The stones have dates back into the 1800s.

That said, the thing I would find most interesting about photographing in a graveyard is the miniature-scale architecture. Where else could you find Greek temples the right size for SD13? This would be in the larger cemeteries, especially in urban areas where prominent families spared no expense for impressive monuments. Would you feel less sensitive about a photoshoot around a fancy mausoleum than an individual tombstone? Seems a bit less personal to me.

I would be quite uncomfortable around a more recent burial, with obvious signs of regular care and visitation. But in a grand cemetery with ancient graves in it, like Pere Lachaise in Paris, for example, I don't feel that intimacy. Especially with all the tourists around Jim Morrison,Oscar Wilde and Edith Piaf's graves!

 

There is no line. Art is about provoking, shocking and make an impression. I have taken pics about everywhere. From another person`s garden to a fresh grave. Disrespectful yes, but I dont care. I of course leave a gift or a thank you of somewhat where I have been trespassing.

Flowers, buildings and graves are art. Monuments. You should honor them the way you like.

 

? I'm slightly confused, if you really 'didn't care' then you wouldn't leave a gift or a thank you.

What do you mean by that? I'm curious to know

 

Ah, the debate where for the sake of art, anything goes. Like that artist who chained a sick dog up without food and claimed it died of starvation in the gallery for the sake of art. Or the artist who self-mutilates for the sake of art. Perhaps something less shocking and more difficult to decide on in terms of debate is the artist who takes photos of nude children in darkened studios, for the sake of art.

I love art and I love creativity but I abhor the idea that anything goes for the sake of art. Murder can be done in the name of art. If we say, no, of course not murder, not at the cost of someone else's life, then we are indeed drawing a line. Where would the line be? If not killing, then what about abuse? If we draw the line at hurting another human being, what about animals? If we draw the line at physical pain, what about emotional anguish?

On the flip side, I really dislike the idea of limiting creativity and I'm not some prude who hates any bit of controversy. I'm not even too fussed about photos in cemeteries. But no, I don't believe that for the sake of provoking, shocking or making an impression, we have the license to do whatever the heck we want. There are always lines.

 

I noticed that retail establishments and more specifically Starbucks being mentioned as no-go in the doll pic category. I'm not sure about the rules in other locations, but as long as the logo or other recognizable copyrighted graphics (menu Boards) are not in view, photographing dolls in Starbucks should be fine. I don't stop people unless they are taking shots of store specifically (or me and the other baristas). Heck, I have some pics of one of my dolls drinking a sample sized latte!

 

I'm not trying to be provocative but I don't really understand how it is disrespectful to take pictures at a cemetary. I've done film shoots at cemetaries where we have set up camera and set chairs right on graves. Legally.
I think if you are that specific about what can or can't be done at your final resting place you should inquire into what is allowed at the place where you are buried. You might be surprised.

 

That's very interesting. Now that you mention it, quite a lot of TV shows and movies have scenes in cemeteries, and I suspect making sets for all of them would be quite expensive...probably most of them use real places.

For that matter, a horror film was recently set at a sanatorium, Waverly Hills, near my parents' home in KY. It was for a long time a home for those with tuberculosis and many people died there, and after that it was a nursing home for the elderly for a few years before being shut down. It's supposedly haunted because of the many people who died and the horrible conditions that later took place during certain years of its' being a nursing home. There are still families alive who had family members there, but haunted house tours tromp through every Halloween to help keep it open, and several films have been shot there as well as, I imagine, quite a few fashion shoots and candid pictures.

So really it's all in the eye of the beholder. It's quite LEGAL to do things even if you don't like them, and it's not just us "weird hobbyists" who do them...people who are seen as much more valid do them too.

I think it's how you go in there. I'd much rather a doll hobbyist go into a place of death with a sense of solemnity and peace to take photos, than someone go in solely looking to profit from making something out to be "creepy".