Controversial Locations - Where do YOU draw the line?

I think taking photos of graveyard is fine as long as you aren't making your dolls do somethign to disrespect the grave. And all the doll photo shoots i've seen haven't had that. People take photos of graveyards all the time because it's a peaceful place but has a dark tone to it. I don't think having a doll in the picture is disrespectful or rude in any way.
I can't think of a place that would cross the line for me. Maybe in a spot that people don't want their pictures to be taken?

 

You know where I really would have felt disrespectful even having a doll with me, let alone taking pictures?

Last year I got to go to Germany for a month as part of a school program, and while we were there we visited Dachau (a concentration camp). It was probably the most sorrowful visit to anywhere I've ever taken, and if I had had a doll with me then, I would have felt like a monster. It was bad enough that the other students on the trip were making jokes and acting like it was just any other outings. I only took one picture the whole time we were there, and it was of a sculpture meant to evoke barbed wire, but with vaguely human shapes. I just couldn't bring myself to take any other pictures.

 

Yeah a place like that I would feel really weird taking picture of a doll. Since there is so much saddness there. Graveyard has saddness but it's something of life we live and die but concentration camp was a place that people unwillingly died. I agree with you on that one. I think taking pictures of it in general is fine but hainvg a doll pose... yeah it's as bad as having a model pose there. =/

 

When I lived in Oxford, England, there was a really really old graveyard by my host family's house. We'd cut through it all the time to get places--everyone did. It almost seemed more like an historical site or something. Most of the graves were crumbling, covered in moss and daffodils and sinking into the soil. That kind of graveyard--I'd feel okay about, doing a photoshoot or something. But ones where people are still coming to bury their dead and mourn would seem a bit uncomfortable to me. I am not religious, really, and a body to me is just a body, but it is more about the living--I wouldn't want to feel like I was trivializing their pain. I know I might not see it that way, but the mourners and people whose families were under ground there might and that would upset me.

 

I photograph dolls in graveyards. but whenever I enter one, I never step on the graves, I usually will talk to them and clean off the headstones. I'm always very respectable of them, never make loud noises or leave behind my garbage..

 

When I was kid, my friends and I played in a graveyard by my house alot. Thinking back on it, I would love it if someone got enjoyment from my grave, especially a child. Graveyards are so peaceful to me, and usually you dont bump into any one to offend, as long as you are respectful and stay away from mourners- I think you will be ok. I think people expect odd things in graveyards anyway- how long have people been taking pics of them without dolls, or doing charcoal rubbings.

 

I think you're probably less likely to damage a grave by putting a doll on top of or near it thant you are taking a rubbing, and people do that all the time. I don't really see the point in taking a pic of a doll on a tombstone, but I can see wanting a pic of them on or near statues and stuff in the graveyard. Still I don't think it's disrespectful, though. Hell I'd ask to be emailed the picture, if I was going to visit a relative's grave and I saw somebody taking a picture of it. As long as it wasn't a disrespectful pic, like if they had it set up to look like the doll was peeing on the tombstone or something. That would be funny, but wrong and I'd have to draw the line and chase them off.

 

It depends on the location and why you're there..I'm not sure how I feel about graveyards- for the most part I think it's unnecessary and also disrespectful.

 

I've worked as a graveyard-gardener, and what they told us is that if someone wants to photograph the yard as a whole, that's completely fine.
it is, after all, a park-like area, and filming a tree or a bush is not illegal, so it doesn't matter if a few stones get in the shot too.
When it comes to individual stones and other closeups, it's a bit different.
The stone is almost always the property of an individual, and thus requires permission to be used as a prop.
However, if a grave is historical or is no longer being paid for, one should either ask permission from the graveyard staff or simply make sure no names get in the shot.
After all, a nameless/dateless stone does not have the status of holy ground and can be treated like any other stone.
So if you want to photograph a gravestone/memorial statue without permission, make sure to leave all names and dates out of the shot.

(all the rules mentioned may only apply to my country, so be sure to check the individual regulations concerning public places and holy grounds that apply to your country)

 

I think most people are sort of missing the point of the initial post. I don't think that this was about 'is taking a photo of your doll inappropriate because you *feel* it isn't inappropriate?'. I would have to say, that walking through a graveyard, paying your respects, dusting off tombstones and things of the like is fine. Yes, when you're dead you're dead, and I know that most of you are saying 'Well, if *I* were dead, *I* wouldn't care, and *I* would like someone playing with dolls on my grave.' And a few of you are saying 'I know someone who's dead and they would love for me to put my doll on their grave and take a photo.'

But let's say you go into a graveyard and you see this AWESOME tombstone. Eh, the ground is a little fresh, so the person was probably only buried about five days ago. But it's a tombstone, right? And it's art, right? And they're dead, right? And it's not disrespectful, right? So you go in there and set your dolls up and, to get a good shot, you've actually got to stand on the *dirt* that is covering the freshly rotting corpse of someone who was dearly loved by people who are still living. And as you're taking your photos, a family of people holding flowers shows up behind you, because you're standing on the fresh grave of a twenty-something woman who was killed by a drunk driver, and this woman's parents-- and her elderly grandparents-- are seeing you stomping all over her grave, and draping your stupid barbie dolls --because they don't know that these are amazing works of art, they're just dolls to them-- all over their daughter's tombstone so that you can take photographs.

That doesn't seem respectful to me.

So where do you draw the line? Is it okay to mess with people's graves who have been dead and buried for a day? Two days? A week? A year? Do you only take photos when the grass has grown over and the family stops coming? Or is it okay to just head right in and take a photo as soon as the green tent has come down, to keep the dirt from washing away in the rain?

How about open-casket showings? Would it be inappropriate to plop your doll down on your friend's grandfather and take a snapshot, with the rest of the church all watching?

How about murder sights? A little girl was raped and murdered and left on a park on a playground, and you read about it and see the picture, and the place where they found her body is beautiful, so you go out there and set your doll where she died and take a few photos?

And taking pictures of your doll with dead animals? I tell you, there was this AWESOME photo shoot in the gallery of a beautiful doll with a dead otter, and while disturbing, it was amazingly beautiful, and a sad tribute to all the animals slaughtered by passing motorists and left without a thought. I don't think she buried the animal afterwards, but I think it would have been nice if she had. But would you ever take photos with a dead animal? One that you had to handle and set on your dolls lap?

This is an awesome discussion, but it doesn't have to be just about graveyards.

How about taking photos of your doll while using someone's wedding as a backdrop? Some people that you have *no* idea who they are. That's sort of disrespectful, and now the poor bride is going to have all these pictures of some twenty-something ladies with barbie dolls in her wedding photos. Any of you who have gotten married I'm sure wouldn't be very happy if you found large, hairy men sunbathing in the background of all of your wedding photos. And it's not that easy (or cheap) to photoshop them out, so that's sort of really disrespectful, and inappropriate, to do to a bride on her wedding day.

Come on, I know a lot of you out there say that you're artists, or photographers, and that no place is sacred, and that no place is inappropriate as long as it's beautiful. There has to be some place that you find inappropriate? Anyone?

 

I'm not religious but I do find it a bit disrespectful. Its supposed to be a place to remember a person who has passed on - a grieving place. Losing a loved one is a very very painful thing, and I don't think such a personal place should be used for such things, regardless of how beautiful some pictures turn out~

 

A historic, public place I wouldn't mind so much (say... Ernest Hemingway's grave, or the Lincoln Memorial or somesuch place). A family's personal place where they pay their respects to a dead relative that you don't even know? Eeehhh... not so much.

Dead otters--also not so much. Granted, if it wasn't someone's PET otter, it's your prerogative, I suppose.

One must also use common sense--if another group is doing something special or important in the place you want to have your photoshoot, being conscientious of those people must always be high on the list of priorities. Just 'cause you wanna take a picture of your pretty dolly with a wedding or a funeral in the background (or foreground, heh) doesn't mean the world suddenly revolves around you.

 

Photographs at a graveyard are not something I would do, and at a funeral you'd be asking to lose friends to your own foolishness. others may see it a bit differently, but for me funerals and graves are sacred territory.
at a wedding, I would not take photographs without permission. however, a photograph of a bride holding a doll dressed like the groom, or vice versa, now seems like it might be interesting and in good fun of the wedding party. it is meant to be a special day, but aesthetic appeal is a big deal, and many BJD have a lot of it. never without permission, though. if the shot isn't worth me asking to take a few pictures, then I really didn't need that shot anyways.

I think you got all the good thought provokers, at least all that come to mind for the moment. if I think up more, I'll stop back in and make more people think.

 

On the subject of graveyards--I do not believe it is inappropriate. Now, I do believe that context is important in this case (as Vaith's post explains well), but ultimately, graveyards are frankly beautiful, and a beauty that I see no problem photographing for that sake. I think that respect should be given to the dead, but there is nothing wrong with tasteful photographs, even if they happen to include dolls, in my mind. (Recently, I did a cosplay photoshoot at a graveyard, for my Kitaro cosplay. Of course, it was night, so...)

As for other locations, I think that the most important thing is not the location, but the situation. Obviously a photo at a funeral is very disrespectful (unless the person whose funeral it is wanted it--hey, it could happen!), and a photo at some random person's wedding is as well! But location is not as important as the meaning of the location/event. It's all about what it means to people.

Of course, you can't please everyone. It's possible that people are upset by me setting up my dolls outside of the mall and taking photos of them (as I've done several times). That doesn't make it controversial or insulting to anyone. But SOMEONE out there may be thinking "What is she doing, taking pictures of big dolls outside of this mall? She's crazy, and should keep her creepy hobbies to herself". You know, things like that.

The way I see it, if you're not likely to get yourself in the news, or labeled forever by anyone who sees you as a "disrespectful, terrible person", it's fair game. [So, this is where I draw my PERSONAL line.]

Hell, even if you ARE going to, why not? If that's what you want. Look at the history of photography... and art. It's all about that kind of thing, right?


Haha, in seriousness, it depends on who you are and your intent. As long as you're not hurting anyone (intentionally, or physically), have at it. That's what I think.

 

I'm going to go ahead and push the subject of graveyards like a lot of people did. I really don't think pictures in the final resting place of others is respectful. At all. Now, I have done shoots for my photography class there, but I think shooting a living person in a cemetery is different than shooting an inanimate object in one. Somehow if feels like I am breathing life into something so old and still. I would also only go to historic ones that have no new burials anymore, as I wouldn't want to disturb those still grieving. And I also try to greet the spirits when I go in, as to not upset anyone or anything still remaining there.

 

i wouldn't even walk close to a graveyard property O_O. iono, ive heard of too many scary stories so it really spooks the poop out of me to even think of going near a cemetary.

 

I probably won't ever do a shoot at a graveyard because they weird me out too much. So much sorrow and sad feelings, I'm too sensitive that I might hurt other peoples feelings. But I have seen some beautiful photos of dolls with angel and cross-headstones so I don't think it's an inappropriate place to do photo shoots as along as you are very careful and don't disrespect their graves or their families.

Other places I would not take photos of my doll...Hmmm. A public bathroom for one! xD Eeew! Also anywhere that discourages public photography (like musuems or art galleries) is a no-go. Other than that... I really don't know! I don't take many pictures of my dolls in public so I can't really offer more than that ^^

 

didn't they film the first living dead or whatever movie in a real graveyard? how many kids play graveyard games?

as long as people have a fascination with death, the dead, possible ghost/zombie sightings graveyards will be the destination of many to do many things. i used to live next to a graveyard and would cut through it to get home from school. people would walk their dogs through it. really, wtf? i think as long as you are respectful, it's really not a bad thing. but letting your dog "mark" head stones is just bad karma. and those stupid little "edgy" middle schoolers that run and romp and play and scream abouts and whatnot.

like, i'm a little superstitious... but as long as you're respectful, do what you want... watch your step, apologize out loud if it makes you feel better. i'm sure whatever's lurking isn't going to follow you home because you took some pictures. it helps to think positive though. they say that if you hype yourself up with positive energy, only positive spirits will surround you. if you're nervous and think poorly, negative spirits will be drawn to you... if you believe that stuff..

 

I agree with sister-of-charity: the graveyard is no place for a doll. her visit had meaning, and so that I think is a very good thing. but I think even pictures in front of memorials would be inappropriate, depending on the memorial. In front of a marker for the town's first firehouse is okay, in front of the Vietnam Wall is not okay.

I'm not at all religious and as soon as the first person on here mentioned churches, I immediately thought of all the beautiful churches I'd been to and good places in them to pose my doll. But the better half of me took over, and I think that photographs of dolls in any place with religious significance is a little risky. I would personally do it.

I went to an ossuary outside of Prague and inside the church was decorated all in bones: chandeliers, pyramids, a family crest. If I had had my doll with me, then I'm sure I wouldn't have taken pictures of her. It's just that inexplicable gut feeling type of thing.

 

I like Vaith's post.

I don't think I'd place dolls on tombstons/in graveyards/etc etc, but it's cultural.
If you place doll *with eyes* over resting place, it will steal that soul.
And the dead are very holy, strong ancestor worship.
Even if I put faceless doll on top, I would still be scolded.
Even it was very gorgeous.

And even if tombs are "for the living" unless it's your dead person, then I don't think it's a good thing.