Controversial Locations - Where do YOU draw the line?

I just found out that filming in graveyards (at least in Australia) is illegal...no permit or anything can get around it. Weather this applies to photography I have no idea (I found this out through writing a film script and talking with my production team - they have to recreate a whole graveyard just cos my scrpit calls for it...muhahahahaha! Power trip! Dance minons dance! lol...just kidding)

 

I think taking private pictures shouldn't be a problem. Imagine you're visiting the grave of a dear family member hundreds of kilometers away from your home. You'd want to take a picture as a momento. But if it involves dolls in a grave yard scene, I'd do the photoshoot when there aren't many people around. Consider that some might find it disrespectful to take pictures with just a doll as the subject near their loved one's final resting place.
Anyway, film companies I suppose, always have some tomb stones in stock. Me being a LARPer, the LARPclub where I often play, has a couple of styrofoam gravestones . When there are undead, there's supposed to be a graveyard too

 

Seriously, while I plan on Cremation, if I had a grave and peoplke wanted to take their Dollies pic on/aroud that graver I wouldn't have a problem...Same if it was a loved one, as long as they didn't leave a mess or break anything..

 

To be honest, I do not feel like going through each post to see what has been said, so if no one minds, I will simply put my two cents in:

As to the issue with photographing in graveyards, I myself have yet to really take my doll outside for any kind of shoot. I think, however, intent is a big thing when considering where and when to take photographs. My feeling is that graveyards are consecrated ground, people are resting there, and if you are not there with any kind of intent to do harm, then it really isn't so bad as marching up and gouging out the eyes of an angel statue or moving some object someone has left for their loved one. Generally, I do not think it is all as disrespectful as some people might, but a prayer for the souls of the departed might be a good idea before one goes.

What triggered me to post in this thread is actually a debate going on between myself and a friend. I have suggested taking our dolls to a certain area which we have been to and know are inhabited by "otherworldlies" such as they are. She is reluctant to take her dolls there because she doesn't want to come home with any "hitchhikers" such as they are.

Does anyone have any opinions on this?

 

Maybe it's just because, when I was in high school, mass was held in the auditorium on the same stage that two days earlier had been the set of the school's production of Hello Dolly, but I really think that it's attitude and intent more so that location that matter in terms of respectfulness. It's more important to me why you are there and how you are behaving than where you are. If you are behaving like a tactful and respectful adult then I don't see any location that would be off limits just based on its own inherent properties.

That said, I think behaving like a tactful, respectful adult does include asking permission for anything where you are uncertain if you are going to cause offense. If you are unfamiliar with the area and some might consider it sacrosanct, then ask before you barge in with your doll and camera.

Beyond etiquette, this just becomes a question of "Can you take a tactful doll photo in location X?" To my mind the answer is always going to be yes. Some places might requirer special care, even some serious thought, but adding a doll to a photo does not inherently lower the tact value in my mind.

 

I don't think cemetery pictures with dolls is a real problem :/ . Perhaps a little disrespectful, it may make people feel uncomfortable, but really, I didn't think it was such a huge deal as long as it wasn't something vulgar. Then again, maybe my experiences with graves are different? I visited my grandparent's grave a couple months ago, and my mother's treatment of her parent's grave was not solemn or grave, but cheerful and light. It was not a 'heavy' atmosphere at all. My mother talked aloud to their grave, and even lied down flat over Grandmother's burial spot. The grave was a part of a church, which my mother and grandparents used to attend, and I mentioned how weird it must be to go to church right next to a grave every week. Mom said 'No, it's not weird at all! It's nice, we had picnics and relaxed outside a lot too, the grave didn't bother anyone!' Something like that =P . I never thought it was a problem to step over graves either... But then again, I'm not particularly sensitive to these sorts of things, so, :shrug: .

I don't get why bringing a doll in a church and taking pictures would be a problem either. Especially if the doll-owner is religious and is bringing the doll to their own regular church, or taking respectful pictures that glorify their religion or something similar, how could it be a problem O.o ? Unless it were something especially holy and sacred, like... I dunno', some kind of ancient ceremonial room or something.

I can't think of much anything that would be 'controversial', other than the obvious and ridiculous.

ali

 

I really dont think there would be any place where it would be inapropriate to take a photo of ur doll. I mean it is JUST a doll. Its not like like ur hurting anyone or anything. I think photos in graveyards are actually really artistic if done right and as long as they arent disrespectful or distastful I would have no problem with it. If I saw someone taking a pic of thier doll on my grandparents grave I would just ask that they Thank my grandparents for being in the photo. LOL Who knows maybe they would make a ghostly apperance in the actual photo teehee. But I guess how I am. If it makes you uncomfortable and you saw me taking pics of ur realitives graves, all you would have to do would ask me to stop and I would appologize, leave, and delete the photos I took. But seriously if werent their and didnt see me, how would you know any different? Well thats my opinion ^-^ Hope I didnt offend anyone.

 

Hmmmmm.... Good point. i can see where "hitchhikers" would be a problem, but I believe that the dollfies kinda take on a piece of ur own soul that u place with in it by giving it a specific personality and what not. So therefore, I dont believe ur dollfie would contract some other lost spirit although I could see where it could be possible. But maybe just to be safe u can look up some percausions on the internet to pertect ur dollfies from being houses for different souls. I mean u can even go to a physcic if u feel that srongly about it. I hope that doesnt sound to off and that it helps at least a little ^-^

 

looks like we have many differing opinions of what is "acceptable". IMO do what you are comfortable with.

 

/\ this. It might just be that I've been the roomie of two photographers, but i myself don't think that any location is all-cases inappropriate for doll photography, as long as no actual damage is done to the site and no one using it for its intended purpose is hindered. I personally can't see any offense in using the usually beautiful shadows and handsome old stone work of a graveyard for photo-shoot atmosphere. I wouldn't even consider it 'wrong' to photo dolls in a church during non-service times, as long as you just sat them quietly in a pew (or whatever) as if they had a proper reason to be there.

I guess where I'm headed with this is, as long as the location is treated tastefully, I can't think of anything I'd consider out of bounds. Making out on the altar, that I'd consider over the top. Having a beer party on the tombstone, I couldn't agree with that.
But just being in the cemetery, I can't see anything offensive in that.

Only my .02, of course.

 

This is a very interesting debate. It's quite difficult for me to decide where I stand on the topic.

On one hand, I think it is up to the individual to decide what is appropriate for him or her. Just because I would never photograph dolls in certain locations doesn't mean I should force my beliefs upon anyone else. For example, I would personally never take a picture of dolls in a religious area/sanctuary but all power to someone else if he or she has no problem doing such.

The idea of graveyard photography makes me feel slightly uneasy, however.

If you would have asked me when I was 20 years old if I found someone photographing their BJD in a graveyard "wrong", I would have said no - as long as no physical damage was done, as long as there was no ill intent I would have just shrugged the idea off.

Now my views are vastly different because my situation has changed. Both of my parents have since passed away. It's easy for me to say "oh, it's no big deal"... but if I walked up to find someone taking photographs at their grave my heart would sink to the pits of my stomach. It's just the idea.

Let me clarify that I have no problem if an individual takes a photo of their doll(s) in front of a family member's grave. I draw the line at stranger's graves, however.

Maybe I'm just being a bit harsh or overprotective, but that is just how I feel.

 

i personally wouldn't go up to any random tombstone and take pictures of it. it just depends. i wouldn't take pictures of a new grave or if the tombstone has things left behind from family members on it. but if it was older and forgotton, it would be okay to dust it off and take pictures of it. i more would take pictures of interesting statues and stuff like that over just tombstones anyway. heck i hope someone uses my tombstone to make some dolly pictures with!

i dunno. i'd much rather walk up to someone taking picture of my grandma's grave over say spray painting it. but most people wouldn't feel that way either. i can see how they would be totally creep out. you just gotta be respectful and not do it when theres people around.....

 

I personally do not think there is anywhere that is off limits. Maybe a funeral parlor where a funeral is taking place or a public bathroom because that is just gross.
This is such a personal belief issue issue that everyone will and does have a different opinion. It gets to be rather silly at a point.
Yes, if I went to visit someone's grave and there were people posing their doll for photographs I might be caught off guard but it wouldn't bother me. I wouldnt think my poor dead grandmother is being violated. It isnt like it's bothering her shes been dead for 30+ years. She might be glad someone is visiting her. That last part was a bad joke.

 

Ok, part of my doll's back story is that she wants to be a director and she's getting ready to go to film school. This whole thread has given me the idea of her doing what a lot of visitors to LA do and visit Hollywood Forever Memorial Park to visit the graves of directors she admires, particularly John Huston who was absolutely awesome. It's a tourist attraction now, just like the Chinese Theatre and the Walk of Fame.

http://www.seeing-stars.com/Buried2/HollywoodMemorial.shtml

 

IMHO, I think it's a tad tacky to take pics of BJDs in a graveyard. Its similar to emo and goth kids who thinks it's "cool" to pose around tombstones, while they take pics to show how dark they are.

 

Graveyards are public places. But... I don't know how it is in other countries, but here, where I'm living, the family has to pay for the place on graveyard. On the other hand, I know a few beautiful graveyards, very old, with lots of wonderful statues. I would like to take some photos of these graveyards (in fact I never have my camera with me when it'd be good to have it), but I think I''ll focus on the really beautiful statues or the atmosphere. Taking photos of gravestones just to take a photo of gravestones (to show everyone how cool someone is) or taking dolls there seems wrong to me. I think cementries are places you should "treat" with respect, even if you don't belive in the same the people visiting their loved ones believe. And in our culture dolls are mostly toys for children. I don't think anyone would like to be accused of playing on the graves ^^ Especially by an old woman with an unexpectable strenght and umbrella (it's not my personal experience, but I know there are womans like this).

 

I never really thought about that... hm... I mean like.. I've modeled in a graveyard before (and a lot of people I know too) and it's a beautiful place with lots of lovely statues etc. for atmosphere etc. the graveyard is a 'setting' and we don't mean anything mean by it... I sense spirits too (believe me or not, I don't care) and I know a few lovely gravestones where the spirits are gone and therefore in that case I don't consider it disrespectful at all... otherwise I'd ask permission before photographing or just not altogether.

 

I think this might be a touchy subject (as demonstrated! lol)

I'm not religious by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm not entirely certain how I feel about this. Myself, I would never conduct a shoot in a graveyard. I would feel bad for it, even if it involved the graves of my own loved ones. I'm not a photographer by craft, and barely by hobby.

For others, I believe that as long as they're being respectful to the grounds, have the correct intention (i.e. adding a mood to a particular shot, as opposed to trying to evoke "shock" in people), and not attempting to make commercial or personal profit from a cemetery photoshoot, I have no problem with it. If they're somehow using the graves of others' loved ones for profit, or to evoke specific "negative" emotions, then I think it's crass and tacky, not to mention disrespectful to the people who are resting there.

True, the dead don't have feelings, but their loved ones who are still alive do, and I know that if someone used my great grandparents' graves for a photoshoot (doll or otherwise) for profit, or to evoke "le shock!!", I'd be pretty freakin' ticked. Though I suppose until someone has posted the images to a medium that you have access to, how would you know they'd done it?

Regardless of how people feel about it, people will continue to do it for their own reasons/purposes. Interesting topic, though

 

I agree with most of these posts. Photography in the graveyard is acceptable, but trapsing on someone's grave is just inconsiderate.
You don't know what that person would have wanted, so it's respectful to avoid it.
Taking pictures in historical graves, is still not acceptable, accept with a distance. We have some great technology, it's easy to take a photo of the doll with the stone in the BG without having to put your doll on that stone.
keep your hands to yourselves, right?
(( just a little thing that popped in my head))

Taking pictures in churches, perfectly acceptable aswell. I would ask the church, request that it's alright with them, but I would avoid anything obviously distasteful or 'blasphemous.' Because you don't want to aggrivate anyone.

Taking pictures anywhere, in my opinion is acceptable so long as you have permission. It's always better to be safe then sorry, for your own safety and others.
You never know who might take your act sorely.

 

=) Now, i think this is terrific. I'd love to see a photostory of your doll visiting the graves of admired film luminaries who are gone.

(Yes, I'm a Goth. I guess that's obvious by now.)