Controversial Locations - Where do YOU draw the line?

Agree 100%.
Further in my opinion art can push limits. I believe in being tactful, but i also believe one equally has the right to make the art that offends as one does the right to be offended by it. Freedom of speech and all..

 

But, a grave yard was 100% available to the public, and just a few days ago, someone stole a 12-yr-dead body!

I say, if it's a famous grave, an old, abandoned graveyard, or a grave of someone you know, you're probably better off. As I said, be respectful. Of course they're put there for the living, so that's who we really should respect. Dead people probably have more knowledge about life than we do, and they're dead!

But we should respect the graves for those who may still be related to this person. And if they see you, apologize, and leave. Don't be defensive, and argue that you have the right to do what you're doing, or ask for a few more shots - go. Of course, do explain that your intent was not to harm anything there, but respect the individual(s), and go somewhere else for your shots.

 

I'm not so much religious but I do believe in spirits...and honestly because the dolls original purpose was to protect small children by letting evil spirits possess them instead of the child... I wouldn't go near a cemetery with my doll. x-x; Damn you Chucky.
For those that don't believe in such things, I understand taking pictures in such a well kept and serene place. The art work you see there truly is beautiful and could make for some amazing props and backgrounds.
I would say, just refrain from taking pictures on graves out of respect for the dead and the living family. And if you do, this may sound stupid, but thank the person who has passed on :\ It's just polite and would make me feel better if I were to use a gravestone in a picture.

 

I think that taking any pictures in graveyards, churches and other sacred places is bad idea. I know that in Moslem and our Orthodoxal church photoshoots are not welcomed. You should ask priests if you want to take photos. But I`m sure that nobody will give permission to take photos of dolls! It`s just not the right place. People should think about preying there, not about somebody doing something strange.
And about cemeteries... Really, people! If it`s old and forgotten, and nobody is taking care about it... May be. But if it`s crowded, if relatives are going there... If people are crying there, talking with their gone beloved? And me with my dolls playing photographer? No? that`s not for me.
And one more point. Besides of being rude and unappropriate these things are very dangerous towards doll owner. Guess what would happen if grieved and slightly drunken person finds you and your doll upon his relative`s grave! And you can tell him about freedom of speech and expression, about art and other crap, but he will see only you trying to defile sacred. And take violent measures. And police will be on his side, at least in our country. And you will have nothing to photograph anymore.(

 

My father, a WWII vet and Purple Heart award recipient, would take my younger sisters and I to the local cemetaries every Memorial Day weekend to help him (and his Vet's Group) plant flags on the graves of the American service men and women. Now, my father had his family very late in life, so we three little girls were much like the grandchildren of the other Veterans who were there to put the flags on the graves. We would cavort and play among the grave stones, giggle and play hide and seek. Uncle Crock, our family friend and an aged WWI vet said, "I hope that children play around my grave when I am gone, it would make me happy."

I have never forgotten that sentiment, from a man who survived the most difficult and chaotic of the wars of the 20th century. I took my friends to cemetaries in junior high and high school, and got many of them to volunteer to put up the flags on Memorial Day as many of the vets became to old and disabled to do it. And we had fun, we paid our respects, but we also played among the stones.

When my father passed many of our small but spread out family went to his funeral in Arlington National Cemetary. Taking photos there was a natural, and caused no harm to anyone. Would I have taken my dolls to have their photos taken at the graveside? I don't know, but I'm not a photographer as some are, and wouldn't have had a good posing eye. Would I have been offended if someone had brought their dolls to pose and take photos of them? No, because it would have been an expression of art, and art transcends death. It would have been "children playing on his grave" and I think it would have made my father smile.

 

I absolutely agree with you about children. It`s natural. I mean we all are humans. And I would be glad and pleased if I would find children playing around my relatives` graves. But dolls are not children. Dolls in the eyes of people are toys. And we are not children. For grown up people to play with their toys around the graves... But you know, it`s so delicate topic. It depends so much on slight nuances. And there are cultural differences also, so...
That`s why I like this hobby so much. It helps to know and understand others.)

 

Personally, respectful (non-lewd) photography of dolls or people in graveyards doesn't offend me at all. Were I buried there, a doll on my grave would be charming and I think I would like the visit, even from a stranger. If I saw someone respectfully photographing a family member's grave, with or without dolls, I wouldn't be offended at all, would instead simply say hello to them. At the Hollywood Forever Cemetary in L.A., everyone takes pictures on & around the graves of the celebrities there, like Marilyn Monroe, and it's one place I can imagine taking my dolls, and taking pictures of them putting a flower on a grave of someone we admired.

 

I don't find this disrespectful in the least. As in the first place I assume that the graveyard in question was old fashioned and had actual gravestones with beautiful craved angels and crosses and not grave plaques a cheap way for graveyard owners to keep the grass in check by simply mowing over the plaques instead of around head stones.

In such a case a photo shoot would be more of an expression of admiration to the beauty of the head stones and another way of paying respects to the dead.

 

I've done legitimate photoshoots in graveyards, with props and real people where we interacted with the headstones (standing on, sitting on, leaning on, etc). My friends and I strongly believe in the conscious minds of spirits in the afterlife.
I believe that using gravestones is relatively intrusive to the person whose headstone you're using.
That's why when we did the photoshoot, ever time we finished using a particular mausoleum or headstone, we set a flower on the grave and thanked the person laid to rest there for allowing us it. We also told them what we were doing before hand and let them know that we meant no disrespect.
Sure, the grounds keepers and other people that heard us doing this (people were watching us do the shoot) looked pretty convinced that we were crazy, but I think it alleviates the issue of intrusion.

The only place where I'd say this isn't okay is a privately owned graveyard (since you shouldn't be there in the first place).
Or anywhere around the mourning; by this I mean that if someone is at a grave mourning a lost family member or friend, you should not intrude upon that for your photoshoot. Keep a respectful distance and don't just wait around if you like headstone close to them. Move on and come back later.

 

it is not appropriate. just like people would not eat or drink inside a public toilet.
on the other hand, i dont know how to judge if the photographs are taken in a respectful way or not, so please just dont do it.
for those photo shooter, i suggess they do some photoshoping but not place the dolls in the graveyards.

 

Hmm. As far as Churches, Graveyards, and other religious or public places where sensitivity is expected, it's more respecting the opinions of people who are alive then anything else, however I love and respect graveyards, but that doesn't keep me from flouncing around in them at night. I have yet to take my dolls there, I'd had no reason to, however, if you are going ONLY to take pictures, choose a very old graveyard and bring flowers (real ones!) for those whose gravestones you photograph.

 

Sorry I loled at this.... Drink and eating in a public toilet isn't so much as inappropriate as it is intensely unhygienic and disgusting..... I havent heard of anyone getting Listeria poisoning eating in a graveyard....

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I wanted to add to this debate: War memorials.... I dont think anyone has brought this up..... My attitude to this is generally a no. However I do have pictures of my Choa taken on the steps in front of the ANZAC memorial in Brisbane - they were taken during the evening so I could capture the "eternal flame" burning behind her. Having lost numerous family members in past conflicts and war I was paying homage to my family. Saying that I would NOT take her into the actual monument nor would I take pictures of her inside or on any of the memorial walls or plaques etc.....

Thoughts on this...?

 

Amen Buff! I totally agree

 

This thread is surprisingly intense! And totally interesting.
As far as art goes, I have a hard time thinking their are truly any limits.
As far as graves or churches go, I can't see any reason why not unless you're tresspassing in someway, or doing something which is truly offensive to others intentionally. If you are using a graveyard or church as scenery in a work of art, which in theory, you are creating because it is something beautiful, then I think in its own way it is a different kind of respect to the location.

Even when there are works of art which are shocking, weird, or disturbing to many viewers, I think it's impossible for the artist to not think of it as something beautiful, or they would not be creating it. So even if it's offensive to some people, I think it's alright if the art being created is in the true artist spirit of creating something beautiful, because that in itself is a kind of respect.

As for memorials... I think this is alright, too, under the same theory. I think the photographer would probably be considerate of their reason for taking a photo at a memorial, simply because memorials are generally places designed to invoke consideration.
I couldn't help but think of 'tourist photos' at this suggestion. I live within driving distance of Washington, D.C., and so I go there often. It would actually be quite refreshing, I think, to see a doll touring the city and viewing all of the historic spots, including the many war memorials and monuments, drinking in the beauty and history of the place as anyone else would, although I'm not sure what other people would think about the person taking those pictures. But the idea of a doll taking in the city the same way as any other visitor is nothing short of whimsical in my mind.
That being said, I'm sure there are a few places you can't take photographs at even as a tourist, with all of the government buildings, too, but these places are usually clearly indicated with a barrage of signs.

 

I'm such a BJD noob but why take photos of dolls at cemeteries in the first place? Is it for Gothic style shots? I'm not sure about other parts of the world but my local cemetery has a section for older, Catholic tombs/tombstones which I imagine would be great for photos but I think the family of those buried might think it odd and/or be offended by it (they tend to be older, close-knit family members). Other areas of the cemetery are mainly modern and as such the headstones are kinda modern looking (so not that Gothic or interesting to shoot?). My father is buried there and if I saw someone take a photo of my father's headstone, I guess I'd want to know why at the very least (dolls or no dolls lol). If it was for something meaningful I guess I wouldn't mind.

Yes, cemeteries are public areas but it wouldn't hurt to exercise some sensitivity. I'd certainly avoid headstones of the recently deceased (my father's been gone a few years so feelings are less raw) and those of children. There's probably nothing more heartbreaking to me than when I see new plots come up for children and young people. I feel for their loved ones and I'd rather save them the sadness of their memorials being used for other purposes.

I'm guessing people wouldn't be photographing actual names, dates and memorial photos on the headstones right? I would probably freak if I saw a my father's name appear in a graveside photoshoot.

Kinda intrigued by this topic. Is there a link I missed for such photos?

 

If you search "bjd graveyard" on deviantart, you come up with very typical, but interesting results. I think if you looked there then you'd get the idea. ;D

 

I actually totally agree with you. It's not only disrespectful, but it's kind of... ...Just awkward to put your doll there. I mean, I never really thought about it that way, but thinking of it now, yeah. I do agree.
I don't like it when people take photoshoots sitting ontop of some random grave just because it's pretty, either. That's even more rude to me.

 

I think the limit is when it comes to putting yourself, your doll or anybody in danger then you should draw the line ...

 

I've been in this hobby for nearly 5 years now. When I first started taking photos, going to a graveyard to do so was par-for-course. I did it many times. Now that I've been doing this for a while, it comes a cross as tacky to me and I won't do it anymore.

I'm pretty sure the dead people aren't going to care, but if it was my relative's grave you were posing your dolls on, tastefully or not, I'd get rather annoyed. Just because you can walk through it doesn't mean it's a free-for-all. People pay for those individual graves/plots. I love cemeteries, but I don't believe it's respectful to use them for that purpose.

 

A good portion of my photographic art is in graveyards. In my religion, we'd rather honor the dead and spend time with them rather than stick them in the ground and forget about them. There is a difference between desecrating a gravesite and honoring it with art. Second of all, in the United States there are huge cemeteries on the east and west coasts that double as parks! People get married, have picnics, and go for walks....in graveyards! I spend a great deal of my time caring for my local graveyard. I clean up liter, I clean off gravestones. It is a peaceful, beautiful place. It should not be allowed to crumble and decay and be forgotten. Modern people are afraid of death, afraid of decay, afraid of growing old. They are afraid of their pasts and only look towards the future. I choose to care about both, and I do so by memorializing cemeteries in art.

Graveyards are public property. They are paid for and maintained by taxes and private donations to the city itself.

I personally get tired and offended when people forget that their perspectives aren't the only ones...not saying anyone is doing that here, but I get really tired of having to defend myself about where I choose to do my photography.

What's the difference between photos in a graveyard and running in a graveyard? Or feeding the squirrels in a graveyard?

Besides, the more positive attention is paid to cemeteries the less likely crimes are likely to occur, including desecration and vandalism or drug use or what have you.

*end rant* Sorry......