Controversial Locations - Where do YOU draw the line?

I find this thread fascinating, though I see nothing wrong with using controversial imagery/places in photoshoots!

 

Only way i'd ever use a graveyard or someone grave for a photoshoot with my doll if it was someone I personally knew or a family member it was used for a griefing kind of thing. A way to cope and remember, a memorial for your love and thoughts of that person? Otherwise it would completely depend for me on where the graveyard was. If it was one known for its gardens and sculptures and has been around historically forever. I might think about it but i'd still use caution and respect.

 

OK, off to another side of the topic (because graveyards seem to have been the main topic for awhile).
How about Memorials and Historic Places vs. Public Art?

Example: The cosplayers at AnimeBoston did some posing with their WWII German uniforms in front of the Holocaust Memorial. They claimed not to know it was a monument, it looks like a soaring angel. Excuse, or Public Art?

Example: I visited the Edward Gorey Museum and took my doll, in a costume that was inspired by Edward Gorey's Victorian/Edwardian dark motifs and stories. I got complimented by the dulcents. Excuse, or Public Art?

Example: A bronze sculpture of full-size horses runs through the park, it is a monument is to the genocide of Native Americans. More often than not the plaque discribing the monument is overgrown, so it appears to just be horses running through the park. Children play on this memorial, photos are taken. Excuse, or Public Art?

 

Some differences between your examples and the graveyard examples....the graveyard photos are taken with the intention of creating art. Parents taking photos of children on running horses is not art; they are capturing photos of their kids. A woman or man posing so as to honor that monument with the intention of creating art to honor it is art. Carrying your doll to the museum is not art in itself. You created her costume to honor Gorey, so that could be art. People dressed as Nazis in front of a Holocaust memorial is bad taste. If their intention was to create art or make some kind of statement with their presence (which is doesn't sound like they were doing) it would be art. It may be offensive, but no one said art had to be inoffensive.

Just mho.

 

The only restriction on my part would be to not show the person's name on the gravestone. That seems intrusive and disrespectful to me. Otherwise, it seems perfectly ok to use a cemetery as a photo shoot location, as long as nothing is damaged or altered as a result. And intention matters; if you're there because you feel a graveyard is a spiritually special place that evokes a positive response of some kind (peacefulness, bittersweet sorrow, love, for example), then sure, it's fine. A violent scene (blood, gore, etc) would seem very inappropriate to me.

Respect is crucial.

 

I absolutely agree! I make it a point never to show names of the people's whose graves I borrow. On a spiritual note, I always ask permission. If I get a bad vibe, I go somewhere else. If the owner doesn't seem to mind, then I'll use the stone. Graveyards are very spiritual places for some people, myself included. I also think a violent scene would feel inappropriate to me. Respect IS crucial! It is nice to see a positive, open-minded appreciation for this type of photography, thank you.

 

I'm gonna jump in here, Guys! ^^ Hii~!

I completely agree with what carmarilla said, I'm a spiritual person myself, if a grave feels wrong for some reason, I'll stay clear of that spot. It's like being told to go/stay away and I'll respect whatever is telling me that
Respect is also so very crucial, I see non-respect as vandalism. Don't treat it with respect and it'll ruin it for others. Around here, we get alot of vandalism and even items being snatched from graves and it just makes me sad that the person under there is just treated like the ground in a way. D:

I didn't see this on a couple pages back (But, then again, I AM blind..even with my glasses ;D) What about abandoned places? As a big urbex (Urban Exploration) fan, I've always been fascinated with old Asylums, Hospitals and the like; and I've always had this idea of a shoot with BJD's in uniform in an abandoned OR. I'm not an idiot, mind you, I find it amazing to stand and think about how many people have been cured and killed under that one set of lights. It really makes you think. As a result, my shoot would be reflective of that, but even for me I really do think that it's a very very controversial and risky shoot that could come back nastily on me and possibly cause distress or even worse for people who look at the shoot...So, I'm very interested in what people think :3

...Essay over. xDD

 

As for graveyards I believe that if the person taking the photos is putting their doll in respectable poses(nothing that could have the possibility of being seen as sexual or disrespectful) and is showing respect toward the graves themselves(walking between them and not over them, not stepping on the stones, etc.) then I have no problem with it. Cemetaries are beautiful places and I think that, if done in a tasteful way, the photos ccan show respect and reverance toward those who the graves are for. Personally I would only got to cemetaries and pose my doll on the graves of people that were close to me and would not mind me doing so, just out of respect for them. Either that or I would go to older cemetaries that don't seem to be visited as often anymore, just to show the beauty of something that isn't nearly as appreciated as it should be.

 

Another urbexer! There's at least three of us on here now...

I've tried to take one photoshoot with my dolls in an abandoned building (Cherry Knowle - An old asylum), and most of the trouble wasn't the "respect" issue, but the problem of dirt - I'm not a clean-freak by any stretch of the imagination, but the thought of sitting my doll down on a rusty bedframe or a dentist's chair covered in pigeon guano...

And the thought of a doll shoot in an old operating theatre is fantastic! If you do one, you *have* to post it up here... It does reflect, after all, that whilst you're in theatre as a patient, there really are people, with whims and hobbies and their own motivations, standing over you with big knives and drills and weird machines that go "bloop". I know enough people who like to imagine that they just get knocked out at one end, and wake up after having had magic done to them, that it'd be nice to make them a bit uncomfortable about it. (I was a theatre assistant for a while at our local teaching hospital, and it's the most frightening and thankless task I've ever done.)

 

I think this all really boils down to respect--not just for the physical graves, but for what those graves represent.

I realise that many people believe are okay with graveyard shoots as long as nothing is disturbed and the pictures are in good taste. However, while I am not an extremely religious person, I believe every human deserves a bit of respect, both before and after their time. For goodness sakes, the whole point of graveyards are to honor and remember the dead. It's disrespectful, and that's that.

Like many people have already mentioned, props are fairly simple to make, and are not likely to offend anyone by accident.

 

This is one of the most beautiful things I've ever read.

 

I guess I'm one of the "Darn kids, get off my lawn!" kinds of people. :\ Warning: the following text is snotty.

Shooting pictures of your doll in a cemetery is in bad taste. Not only does it reek of stereotypical teen angst, but you're not in that cemetery and taking photos to respect the people there; you're there to make your doll look cool. If you want a graveyard scene, maybe you should make a scale model for your doll to stand in-- that might have more impact than "little doll next to huge tombstone" pictures.

A cemetery is a place to respect the dead, and by taking pictures of your doll in that cemetery, you are thinking only of yourself. Find somewhere else to take your pretty pictures.

 

In my opinion art is meant to be enjoyed and there is nothing wrong with any of those examples. If I ever happen to be near a beautiful cemetery with one of my dolls I will definitely do a shoot there. Art is meant to be enjoyed, when it is not it's just wasted. I'd probably also take pictures of my kids(the real ones, not dolls) on the horse statues.

 

A small problem with your teen angst theory, Peppermint...I'm 24. I'm long passed teen angst and irresponsibility. You're right, it does sound snotty. I do like your idea of a scale model however, but I still wouldn't stay out of real ones.

 

I just want to voice my opposing opinion - not to argue, but just to show that there ARE opposing ones.

Graveyards do not exist for the dead - they exist for the living. So mourn in, to enjoy, to remember, etc.

I can agree that it would be rude to the family of the deceased if you used their loved one's gravestone wantonly. So wanting to avoid actually setting things down on graves might be something you'd take into consideration. However, I see nothing wrong with just being around the graves and taking pictures of them for whatever purpose makes you happy. (If the dead dislike you because you're doing something that makes you happy, then they were probably a jerk in life, right? And I don't mean that to be funny.)

I personally would think it fabulous if someone used my grave in a photoshoot, BJD or otherwise. I've been considering putting it in my will to make my grave a stone bench.

 

It's one thing to take a meaningful photo of your doll in a historical setting/graveyard, and another just to take random pictures of family and friends and disregard the importance of the setting. In photography, the set is part of the art—if it was my graveyard or memorial (yeah, if I had a memorial . . .) I wouldn't mind at all if someone wanted to use it as part of an art form, but I wouldn't want random people lining up in front it with peace signs and smiles. So I think it whether using those locations is "right" or "wrong" really depends on your intentions and what you're going to do with the resulting photo.

 

I would photograph my doll in a Cemetery, absolutely. If I had an idea for a shoot and a cemetery was a fitting location for it, I wouldn't hesitate. There's an old cemetery down by the water in my city, and some of the stonework is wonderful. I've modeled for a photographer in there myself, and while I certainly wouldn't want to be posing near the newer graves, I have no problem doing it in the older sections. I do try to avoid stepping on graves where possible, out of respect, and I have been known to avoid a grave that gives me a 'bad feeling', which there are a few of.

I think photographing new graves is disrespectful to the families who have lost their loved ones, but I don't feel the same way about graves that are older, such as from the 1800's, that are far less likely to be attended.

 

There's a graveyard surrounding my local church, and the graveyard is divided up into three sections. In the Old section, there are ornate tombs dating back literally hundreds of years (the church itself is over 900 years old - there's even an overgrown corner of one part of the graveyard that is a former plague pit); some are Grade II listed, but some are so ancient there is not a single trace of writing left on them. Some of them look like a Victorian folly in miniature.

I've often thought that those tombs would make fascinating backdrops to stage small BJD tableaux around, but several things have stopped me. For one, it's my church - I attend there on Sundays, and I think I would just curl up with embarrassment if my vicar came out and saw me "playing with dolls" in the graveyard! (I'm a grown woman of 37 and a mother of 3 - not the sort of person you might encounter playing with 2' tall dolls in a graveyard!) For another, the newer section of the graveyard is still in use, and whilst it's one thing to trapise around ancient tombs that are so old the remains inside have long since disintegrated and the families have died out, it's quite another to walk around disturbing the remains of people whose surviving relatives sit in church with me on a Sunday.

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I am far too superstitious to ever do this myself, however I love the thought of others using the public space intended to make paying our respects to the dead more pleasant. I was requested to do a photoshoot in a graveyard at night before and I didn't feel comfortable with it because in my own personal beliefs just as ghosts and such let themselves into our spaces uninvited that we may be doing the same, causing them to possibly take action.

 

My mother (a highly superstitious person) once said to me, "ghosts are not in the graveyards. If they're here on earth with us, they're with their families or in places they loved in life." That's probably why I'm not afraid of them nor superstitious in that way anymore. (Though I am incredibly superstitious but that's totally off topic...)

I've done photoshoots in cemeteries before, both at night and during the day. It's a lot of fun and makes me feel like I'm bringing joy, fun, and art to a place most people would rather avoid.