Controversial Locations - Where do YOU draw the line?

There is a time honored maxim "It is easier to beg forgiveness than to obtain permission"

Go for it! People don't think twice about taking rubbings from historic headstones which
arguably could do damage to the stones over time. I've never heard of anything having been
damaged as a result of being photographed...

Tom

 

I am beginning to find that my thoughts change between cemeteries that are old, and primarily used as historic locations and cemeteries that are still in use.

Even so, if I really wanted to do a photo shoot in a graveyard, I'd try to stick to older graves, and not places with relatively 'new' plots. In terms of aesthetics, I would think that newer stones wouldn't have as much 'character' as older ones, also - but mostly it would be because I'm thinking that you're probably not going to run into someone trying to get to a relative.

I have also just realized that we're discussing cemeteries in general, and not someone's individual stone. In a cemetery - with stones as a backdrop - is not an issue for me. Like others have said, if people are posing their dolls with stones, or on stones, I don't like it. I wouldn't like it if I was going to visit someone's grave, and found someone taking pictures of their doll on the stone I was going to go see. While I'd understand that they wouldn't have known I was coming, it'd still feel like they were disrespecting the space.

Ideally, I feel cemetery photography shouldn't inhibit relatives from seeing their loved ones in a peaceful, quite manner. Especially if the death was rather recent, the pain of separating from that person can still linger in a relative, and they might feel that you're treating the stone like an object, and not like a marker for a real person that someone still cares about. They might not care why you're doing it, and if they're upset enough, they could get you kicked out or banned. I can easily see someone getting that angry. And if it were me, I don't think I'd like it - but that more or less depends on my emotions about the person I was going to visit (if I was close to them or not).

So, I'd encourage stones as a backdrop, but not the main subject in your photo.

 

I agree with ravens point. Some of the most beauteful sclpturall art you will ever see is in grave yards. I feel taking pictures of of with or whatever with pieces like that is fine. Taking pictures with someone's gravestone may not be aporprate especially if you are getting that persons name in the pictures etc. There is something so beauteful and peaceful about graveyards to. I would say It's just a fine line

 

I have a older cemetery that's quite rundown by my apartment building that I was thinking would be perfect for pics for my doll but this thread is making me rethink it a bit. I grew up being taught to respect graves by going to put flowers out right before Memorial Day with my grandparents. Like one thing is to never step directly right in front of a gravestone because you are stepping on their grave directly.
I think if I still do the pics there I will be very careful on that, like only taking the pics from on the grave stone from behind so the names are not seen.

 

I live in New Orleans and we like to treat the dead as we do the living. It's fun to go for a visit, bring them gifts, even deck out their tombs. Tours troop through the cemeteries and photo shoots are quite common.

I like to think that the dead like to be included. Of course, I also prefer a memorial service that is a celebration of the life that we all loved.

We all die. Walking on eggshells around it and treating with excessive solemnity doesn't make it any less true.

 

I find your exemple very disrespectful.
People need to put themselves at the decease family place. Some know it but still going to take pictures next to graves like its "correct" to do it.
I personally don't want humans/doll taking picture next to my graves because they find it beautiful or because its a good picture spot. Its not what the grave is bought for and you have no right to go take those gothic-ish pictures next to my expensive grave. If some security were to see people doing this they will def ask those person to leave, the cemetery is not made for pictures spot.

 

I've come to like cemeteries in a way, ones that're almost a forest, that is. They're like peaceful parks for the dead and mourning. (lol I'm poetic) So I may take some pics with that feeling in mind, but not with individual gravestones. Humans will never stop wondering if something comes after the death or not, because our brains can't know what not thinking is like.

 

Except most graves are actually behind the stone, not in front of it.

 

I have never once been asked to leave the cemetery for taking pictures, reading, or whatever else I do in there. I have seen rowdy teenagers causing mischief and possibly causing damage and just being rude asked to leave though. Also, cemeteries on the west and east coast are designed to be parks-- they have weddings that occur in them! People come and take pictures of graves, of the park, of sculptures, of each other. My point being, maybe in your area it's rude, but it isn't for everyone. There isn't a one-size fits all answer here.

 

I would never do it(take a pic of my doll on someone's grave).If you want to do a pic like that use photoshop.It's not about religious it's about being respectful.Don't sit your doll on someones grave.That's like it's ok to step on it.And if you are ,do it on someone's grave you know. put them on a bench ,heck put them on the ground with the stones in the backround.If you do choose to put them close to the grave pray first religion or not show your respect.But never sit your doll on someone's grave, not a random one

 

Well when I die that's it, and all that will be left is my decomposing body. So from a personal perspective, I could care less if someone used my tombstone in a picture.

However from the perspective of other people, I can see how going to a loved one's grave only to find someone taking a picture of their weird doll on the tombstone could be upsetting.

I'd probably go to a more "historic" graveyard. And I wouldn't put my doll right up by the tombstone; I'd use statues instead.

 

Well were I live we don't have right to "hang out" in cemetery except if we go to visit decease person, we have no park, no wedding in them either. So they can't make exceptions for people that wanna do pictures. I can't talk for the entire world but this is how it is where I live, so thats my own answer on the subject.

You talk about where you live without knowing about mine.
I don't really care if in some country people use cemetery as park, I didn't even know before your post myself. I just don't know why you quote me, like I said a "general opinion on the entire world situation". This is my personal opinion on the subject, and of course I can't talk for all the earth population because we have different mentalities, different religions, different stories etc etc

 

I"m commenting on the iron-fisted views people have here- those without the knowledge judging what others do. If you don't know much about something, learn about it before commenting, and that applies to everyone, not just you. Your post was quoted because you spoke in a general sense of someone being asked to leave by security for something you viewed as rude. I provided evidence to the contrary, that's all. It's nothing personal.

 

Now, I'm not terribly religious. However, if the picture was taken respectfully, I'm sure it would be fine. Maybe if you're worried you can offer up a prayer of gratitude as well, to the one who owns the grave.
Just hope that you don't get a grave of someone who was scared of dolls in life--they might think it appropriate to scare you!

 

To contrast with Morhighan, I am very religious, although I don't make a habit of talking about my beliefs. I agree that if the photographer is respectful, I wouldn't have any problem with people taking photos in cemeteries. Older cemeteries tend to be better for photography, both visually and to avoid upsetting the deceased's families.

I've traipsed through countless old graveyards and cemeteries in my life recording info for genealogy groups. Photos are the best way to record old grave markers, so I've taken my share of pictures in them as well. The rules genealogy societies will give you pretty much boil down to "be polite": Avoid areas where there are mourners or the graves are very recent, try and leave the place cleaner then you found it, don't disturb markers (even if they've fallen), etc. As long as you* follow the same rules, in most places you wouldn't have any problems.

*collective you, not any one person

ETA: Ironically, although I have no problems with someone photographing their dolls in a cemetery, one instance did pop into my head that I had problems with. A couple years before I got my first BJD, I saw a woman taking pictures of an SD at the OKC Bombing Memorial. It bothered me to know that somewhere, this person would be posting pictures of her doll standing in front of the field of chairs. It felt very touristy, like she'd have done the same thing if she was at the zoo or a museum. So I guess I should add that, as a community, we make sure we aren't causing emotional distress to people who go to those places to mourn.

 

Graveyards were the public meeting place/ lunch spot for many a person in the Victorian times. I loved being in graveyards as a child, then again I lived near one and used it as my play ground. I recently lost my mom and had to talk about graveyards, I had read this forum before and didn't have much to say that wasn't already here. But thinking about having people take pictures of and around my mothers grave doesn't bother me. Actually I would be happy that the land around her grave was used for something other then morning.
Where I draw the line is if living people or things are going to get hurt. Harm none then do what you will and the like. You are honoring the dead by just being in the graveyard doing what you like, and honestly I don't think they would care. They are dead after all.

 

Just reading through the thread someone meantioned stepping on graves, through superstitions I have never been comfortable stepping on graves(not the stone, the ground beneith), not even old ones. So I personally, wouldn't feel comfortable placing a doll on it.
But to be honest you can take pictures in a grave yard without placing a doll on a grave or grave stone. Some grave yard have churchs beside them and I'm sure if you got permission few would have a problem with you taking artisitic pictures outside the church.
I think it also depends how respectful you are to the surroundings.
I will comment on this, I think someone meantioned about leaving a flower or something, if that was my realtives grave and you simply left a flower without knowing them, I do think that would annoy me because it would be like a cheap payment for using someones grave to try and make things ok.

 

Let me start by saying, Thank you for not having a "Is it right to do/use YOUR X item for YOUR X purpose." Topic. I'm le tired of them.

Alrighty, as far as 'where is the line', for me at least, there is only a line when you and your BJDs are affecting another person in a negative way. As far as time and place goes, if your photography has no negative effects on anyone, there is always a time and place. Your example of a graveyard, great btw. I don't really understand how taking photos in a graveyard effects others. The graveyard are not for the dead, the dead are not using them in any way. The living are. The living wanted a space for corpses, a place to remember someone, a place to mourn, etc... They are for the living. If someone wants to snap a shot in a graveyard (or any other place church, store, etc.) whynot? Again, as long as they are not affecting anyone.
As far as going to a graveyard and finding someone taking a photo on my family / friend 's stone or plot. More power to them, for me I'm honored they think MY family / friends space is good enough for a shot. Out of all the stones, they've picked mine. And, after a storm, tornado, construction, relocation, etc... I will still have a timeless eternal photo memory of it.

Thanks - sdrcow

 

I have to say I'm with sister-of-charity back on page one on this matter, at least where it concerns photos in statuaries, reliquaries or churches themselves. I was raised Catholic and while I don't find dolls offensive (well, obviously) or even particularly irreligious, I have a rather set notion of Time And Place. Devotional art is kept in churches because the time and place they belong to is unique to them. The introduction of a doll into the setting is a distraction in a place set aside for concentration, plus I can't think of a way to do it so unobtrusively as to not distract others in the area. For the more secular set: It's roughly the equivalent of somebody coming in the room and staging a dolly photoshoot when you're trying to take the LSATs. The action itself isn't inherently disrespectful, but it's a nuisance to the people who are trying to use the time and place for its intended purpose. "Do unto others" and all that.

Graveyards... graveyards are communal property, spiritually and intellectually. So long as you take only pictures and leave only footprints (and flowers--courtesy to one's hosts never hurts) then by all means, enjoy. But keep it tasteful for pity's sake. I don't get the fascination with erotic photos of bjds, but if you MUST do that, do it somewhere else. I mean, YOU wouldn't have buttsex out in the open in the middle of a graveyard (at least I assume most of you wouldn't) having your dolls do it is inappropriate for the same reason.

Disclaimer: Before anybody gets in a huff and accuses me of homophobia, I am a lesbian. And STILL confused by the straight female fascination with yaoi. I have no particular passion for het erotica, which would essentially be the equivalent of that. But hey, different strokes.

 

Honestly, I see nothing wrong with it whatsoever so long as if family of the deceased's grave happen to arrive, you quickly pack up and carry on your business elsewhere and apologize if they were in the least offended by what you have done.

But personally, I like my graveyards from the 1800's and beyond The tombstones and statues back then were so much more interesting and beautiful thus being a better option in my eyes.
I'll take pictures of tombstones, why not pose a doll on a grave and take a few shots of that as well?