Controversial Locations - Where do YOU draw the line?

Maybe I'm odd, but I don't care all that much. I've seen people do people photoshoots there, seen people have picnics, play soccer, do whatever in graveyards because they're, well, graveyards.

Were I dead, I wouldn't care. As long as nothing was being broken or disrupted, I wouldn't care that someone would be messing with my headstone. if I was shooting someone's headstone, and someone asked me to stop, I'd definitely stop.

But, I never thought that anything would be wrong with photographing at a headstone unless there was some glaring reason as to why not.

 

I'll admit I'm quite shameless when it comes to pictures, so I don't have any places I wouldn't photograph. Unless there's no light, it's unhygienic or the situation doesn't call for it, I'll avoid it. Not all that keen on bathrooms because of it. And places with dead things.

I love cemeteries; especially photographing them. Gotta dig the sculptures and fancy benches. Not sure if I would pose my doll next to one though. I think the same principles that apply to crowd photographing, also works well with graves. Better not focus on a specific stone to avoid disrespecting someone. It all depends on the situation though.

 

IF I were going to have a grave (which I am not because I prepaid for a cremation years ago) I think I would rather have picture taken ON my grave than not because at least then someone in the future would stop and read my name. Graveyards in my historic little southern town have ALWAYS been a place people gather at due to the number of graves that go back to the 1600's and because of all the Civil War sites. Even as a child (and they still do this here) local schools would take children on field trips to the beautiful graveyards to make rubbings of the old graves and to admire the immense statuary. I think it provides a connection with the past and those real people in the ground. I think it also gives children a perspective of mortality they are saddly lacking in their education in a lot of places. Death is close by all the time. It is neither bad nor good, it just is. So why not add our dolls many of us consider extension sof themselves to the mix?

 

I did my only outdoor shoot to date in a cemetery... but only because of the trees, unbroken snow and the reduced chance of being interrupted (or worse) by passers-by. I deliberately avoided getting people's headstones in the pics, as it did seem inappropriate, vaguely like taking a living person's portrait without permission. On the other hand, I did use headstones to balance my camera on, and to sit on at one stage.

I would challenge the notion of a previous post that "cemeteries are clearly not intended for the living". The local graveyard is the only place I can go where it is peaceful, where there is no traffic, where birds and squirrels and hares can hang out and do their thing largely unmolested. (I even heard coyotes in there last winter). It's the only place locally that has really big trees. All in all: I go there for the life, not for the death!
I am respectful towards the dead people and the monuments left by their families, but not overly sentimental or superstitious, and I'm going to spend time there whether they like it or not.

I like lostkitten's take on it, too. These days, in this overly sanitized world, we have this strange disconnect from the notion of death, which either results in an excessive fear, or else fetishism (I'm looking at you, you tedious, tedious goths). Exploiting the "spooky/edgy" aspect of a graveyard has been -pardon the pun- done to death, and I think that is somehow disrespectful*. Quietly hanging out in a cemetery every now and then with a cup of tea, birds and/or a doll, on the other hand, is probably quite healthy.

*I generally don't like zombie games or movies for this reason. I can't help but think that the shambling hulks of putrescence are somebody's boyfriend or grandma, and shouldn't just be rudely blown away with an elephant gun. Shaun Of The Dead addresses this issue very nicely, despite being a comedy!

 

Death is very scary to lots of people. But as anyone who has watched their young beloved die right before their helpless eyes, it comes to all, even the young and the beautiful. I agree, LovelyBadger, in this, as you so wonderfully put it "over sanitized world", there is a tendency to overlook the peace and serenity in the mundane and ordinary. Death can also be release. And nothing is as ordinary and as universal to all beings as death. even the stars will die. BTW, LOVE your take on the "shambling hulks". You have quite a way with words.
LostKitten

 

I'm a goth and I don't have a death fetish.....stereotyping = not good.

 

I'm...not going to touch the subject on photography in graveyards or churches...I'lllll just move on to what this was originally about!

I think any place that already have copyrighted art would be off limits [art galleries, museums etc] other than that, so long as I'm not breaking any laws...I believe the sky is the limit.

EDIT: I just want to specify, when I say art galleries or museums, I mean places that have a strict rule on photography. I'm aware some galleries and museums allow photography; those aren't the ones I'm referring to ^.^;

 

Interesting thread, I had to go back and look through my pictures to see if I've done anything outrageous but I don't think so. If you take a doll with you most places you go, you'll find something interesting to photograph. Theaters have unusual settings, so do airports and resturants. Set up your shot in your head and by quick and respectful and I don't see a problem with it.

We took dolls to my sisters wedding last year and found a great photo shoot in someones front yard. We were careful and the owners came out and were happy to talk with us. Interested in the dolls.

As for cemetaries I suppose you need to go to the right ones. After my sisters wedding in Maine I took the family to Hope Cemetary in Barre Vermont. If ever a cemetary was ment to be photgraphed this one was!



Yes, this headstone is a race car. There are dozens of unusual headstones. This is the most beautiful modern cemetary I've ever seen and we walked all of it and marveled at the granite, the carvings, the imagination of the living and wondered about the people buried there. I took pictures with and without dolls in them. Also told my parents I could never afford anything like this so don't get any ideas.

 

Now that is supercool. I totally want a racecar as a headstone. Or, perhaps a sailboat would be more fitting. XD

 

I don't mean to lecture anyone here...sorry if this seems a bit long-winded!

Something to take into account; Starting in the Victorian era, a great deal of thought was put into the design of the mausoleums, gravestones, and landscaping of cemeteries. They were designed to be visited by the living, and it was not unusual, and even expected, for the living to use the cemeteries somewhat like a park. Come to take a stroll, enjoy the scenery and tranquility and pay respects.
I think it's a shame that people feel that they must not casually take a walk through a cemetery. The grounds are landscaped to be beautiful and peaceful, and the headstones can be works of art. As long as one follows some respectful rules (please, please don't litter!), there is no reason that a cemetery has to be off-limits.

 

I probably wouldn't put my doll right on top of a person's gravestone or something, but just using the entire graveyard as a backdrop scene seems fine to me, just as I might also take pictures of my doll inside a church (when photography is allowed of course), but not in some silly position right in front of a Jesus statue. Same goes for any other place that will probably hold strong memories or feelings for anyone, such as temples or hospitals.
I think Kurosu.chan is making a very good point. However I think that would still go for the entire graveyard as a whole, not for single tomb stones... I doubt if even in Victorian times people would appreciate it if people would make detailed drawings of the last resting place of a loved one...

Even if nobody is watching, I would probably not feel right... Though that might depend on the occassion. For instance, when some tombstone is incredibely old and weathered, so you can' t even read the name anymore, and I am sure that no relatives of that person are still living/visiting there, I might take a picture of my doll with that tombstone.
That's probably where I draw the line when it comes to taking pictures/seeing pictures with tomb stones: You shouldn't be able to read the name. Buuut...
Even to that, there might be exceptions... For instance, the most beautiful grave I have ever seen was for a little boy named Arthur. Appearantly he died at the age of 11 and loved playing knight. The piece of ground dedicated to him was covered in little toy knights and horses, and for a headstone there was a big rock with a sword in it, with the text: "Here lies Arthur, once and future king.".. As a reference to the text of the grave of the famous king and his sword Excalibur. It was one of the most emotional and sad-yet-beautiful things I have ever seen. It wouldn't make sense nor be possible to make a photograph of that without the name (well you could edit it out later of course). But then again I would never take a picture of it with my doll. It would disrupt the scene. Maybe if my doll were a knight, paying honour: That would actually tribute to the grave and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't bother the boy's parents. They might even like it.

 

I didn't read the other 39 pages of posts - though I will probably make my way through them after I've done posting. But, I don't think of Cemeteries as a controversial place to make art. Perhaps this comes from growing up in the southern part of the US, where a great many cemeteries are also memorials or historical markers. And maybe it's just from my own family tradition - a great many of my relatives were laid to rest in a cemetery that used to be in a town flooded in the 30s to make Lake Ouachita. All the government was willing to relocate was the church & the cemetery. We go back every year and eat a picnic on the grounds after we clean and decorate the graves. Lots of pictures are taken, of family sitting near or on the graves of people who died a hundred years before they were born. People are still being buried there, too, like my grandmother.

I guess it's all context - I might be offended if someone posed a military styled doll next to a veteran's headstone, or did a sexually provocative photo theme. But if there is clear artistic intent, and the theme of the photoshoot isn't offensive in itself -- the graveyard is just as beautiful a place as a museum to take pictures. Memento mori, and all. . .

 

I never really thought about taking pictures of karma with grave stones. The ones here are very ugly. and the grounds very barren. We have no beautiful stones or buildings. So I probably would not even think of taking her there for a photo shoot. I think if it was a ancient graveyard with beautiful architecture I would not have a problem.

 

You can't get mad at people for what they do with their dolls but I wouldn't do it.But I'm not everyone do it with someone you know not at random cause it looks cool and your doll is goth so he/she hangs in cematarys.It's fine for you to have stones in the back but don't lean your doll on a random grave.Think about when you lost someone importent to you did you cry?Did you wish that this person you love so much was next to you instead of being buried under the ground?Then think you finally decide to go to the place where you lost your love one and there is a person you don't know taking pictures of your doll smiling and thinking it's fine doing what they're doing when it's not.
PSS:Show you respect treat the dead like the living!Love them like you love own family visit them often and don't touch just stand in front and they might not mind.Think would you take a pic of a child in a cemetary?Remember a cemetary is a beautiful place nothing wrong with showing the beauty but in a respectful way

 

I guess I just see things a little different. I think there is something wonderful about getting joy out of a place with connotations of sadness. If someone uses my monument to take a picture of something as precious to them as their doll for example and it makes them happy then it's a beautiful expression of life not disrespect

 

@Gherkin: I've read about that graveyard, and I love your picture.

In response to the question, a graveyard is about as over-the-top as my area can get, and I don't have issues with someone posing dolls on the gravestones provided that's all they're doing (i.e. nothing gets knocked over or broken or deliberately vandalized). I am also an aspiring mortician, and I love the added "death" note to a pic.

That being said, I'd probably stick to my own family's gravestones because I knew them in life and I know they wouldn't mind my hijinks (putting dolls on someone else's grave and taking pics is a little like walking into someone's house uninvited). My dad, in fact, would probably get a laugh out of it because he's almost as morbid as I am.

 

I don't think there are many places that are "off limits" as long as you follow basic common sense rules. Don't take pics in peoples houses without their permission, or of their families and things. Don't take pictures that you plan on posting online with personal information in them that isn't yours. (if you want to post your on social security number all over the internet it is your right after all. Not a great idea but your right.) Nude pictures of your doll in a class full of nursery children is completely tasteless and taking photos in places that request no photographs is kind of obviously going to cause issues if someone sees you. In the end though it comes down to how the photo is handled, any place can yield great art and any location can be beautiful in its own way. Graveyards are fine with me, if a family requests you stop then stop obviously, but graves are out in public places for people to see if they want and, it stands to reason, photograph if they want. Keep in mind the culture of the place you are in though. If your traveling abroad make sure to respect local customs in the pictures you take.

 

I personally don't find it offensive to hold a photoshoot in a graveyard. Or a church for that matter. Probably because I'm more or less agnostic.

To me, places you shouldn't hold a photoshoot is a stranger's yard (without their prior permission) or their cars, etc. Or a place that clearly states 'no photography'...I know a fair few churches fall into this category.

 

Interesting question...I think it is fine to photograph within graveyards - but NOT to stand upon the graves or place your doll (or anything else) upon or against a grave or headstone. No touchy the graves/headstones. (Wow, people sit their dolls on headstones???) Maybe for a special reason like if you knew the person personally, and you know that they would not mind but otherwise I don't think it's appropriate.

Then again, there are some graves that are 'iconic', and feel like part of world heritage. For example, Oscar Wildes grave all covered with the lipstick of thousands of women, ancient barrow downs...(just look like heaps in the earth where saxon nobles or whatever were buried) I mean these are like pieces of significant history/art and I think it's acceptable to RESPECTFULLY POSSIBLY touch or rest your items and stuff upon them if it is allowed/pose with them for your own artistic interests because they are considered sort of like ...not just a grave, but 'art' like our heritage/belonging to everyone?
Just think 'hm, would it be ok for ME to pose cheesily infront of this thing for photos or to sit on it' before doing so with your doll? I just think it's really odd to do so with 'normal' graves and absolutely never ok if it is a grave that is recent and belongs to someone you dont know, just wow.
And if you have doubts that taking pictures within a graveyard may cause offense to other visitors in the graveyard, better to go back when theres no one there?? I think respect should be given to people who have come to remember loved ones.

*Thinking some more* Many graveyards around where I live have 'new' and 'old' sections, the new ones being very recent and tended/visited and the old section has mostly graves from....1850 or something. I can imagine that, yes, if I wanted some gothy pictures I would consider photographing my doll in this area (but NOT actually sitting ON the graves!!)

 

Not really thought of it!
'Course some people might say that by hanging a pair of handknitted socks on re-engineered metal coathangers in the branch of a tree in blossom around springtime might in some way cause damage to the tree but I did it.

I don't think I can really criticise anyone else's decision because sometimes people just don't think. I can understand that some people find it disrespectful but would find a photograph of a BJD in an explicit position much more uncomfortable. I find graveyards often calm and peaceful places and would think it much more offensive when the local youth decided to tear up headstones, smash some and generally cause chaos (oh ,and liberally spray paint everywhere) as they did some years ago. How much more disrespectful is that?