Controversial Locations - Where do YOU draw the line?

In the US, most aren't.

And opinions like yours and Armeleia's are exactly why I no longer post photosets over here, rather they're taken in my favorite Victorian cemetery or not.

 

Graveyards aside, what about other public places like busy parks and malls and restaraunts any other large space where lots of people gather to have days out with friends and family? As others have said in relation to graveyards, to me the biggest problem I have is with lack of respect to other living people around you and how they are using the space.

What about crowding into a restaraunt for hours and barely buying any food and causing a disruption to other patrons? I worry more about bothering people in places like that than I do any small garden corner of a graveyard. I don't want to have to deal with a mall security guard having to constantly keep an eye on a group of squealing girls by a mall fountain on a Saturday afternoon because he has no idea what the heck we're up to and that's not really what that space, which is technically privately owned, is for.

I'd much rather share the cost in renting a small room at a library, or like what was once done up at Bellevue where we rented a space that was meant for private parties at a doll museum. Heck, even more secluded sections of parks are great places in my mind. I'm not trying to diss anyone's meetup choices, this is just how I've felt about some meetups.

 

just to state, i wasn't solely referring to grave stones in my comments at all. but say it's the head stone, of someone who inflicted alot of pain on your family. you might want to be offesive to that person's family. if that family is involved in such pain aswell. just you taking a picture of said grave might offend the family cause they think you're doing it to gloat they are dead. a family fued of such. even if such it's just for your to have proof the person is dead for your own mental stability. (exp: a person taking a picture of their rapist grave, even though the rapist family swears up and down their child would never hurt someone and blame the victim)

and a politcal statement with dolls example for ya of what you could do. (doll is a representation of a person) dress a doll up as soldier and take them to a war monument. and dress them in the attire from that war. (that can also be offensive to someone cause you are using doll instead of a real person.)

and yes alot of commentary will be if it's apporaite, but i also look at in the mind set of bad publicity is still publicity. and people will look for just the fact that it is controversial. the more people that look, the more people you will effect whether or not it's in a good way or not.

 

I find places like graveyards very beautiful and enchanting. I'd love to do a photoshoot in one sometime, but I'd be certain to keep it tasteful. So long as the grave is respected and left undisturbed, I see no harm in it.

I'm not entirely sure how it is disrespectful, as I don't dwell on the departed. I respect their memory, but they are just that - a memory. Their graves are really just so we, the living, don't feel bad for moving on with our own lives.

We'll all wind up dead in the end, anyways.

 

I don't think it is wrong to take photos of a grave. If I were dead and in a grave, I would want someone to visit, I assume. Just as long as you weren't defacing it in some way, I don't think it is wrong

 

I agree about the meetups. I think that meetups should be done in a secluded park or rented space unless the permission has been given to do a meetup in a location with more people. If the meetup puts officials, other patrons or business owners in a position where it becomes an inconvenience to them to have the meetup, then it should be moved to a different location. I don't see any reason why we couldn't pool together a little money from each person attending a certain meetup and reserve a spot for the purpose so we're out of the way and the business gets their fair cut for having us around. If a meetup HAS to be done at a museum or mall or some place like that, someone should call and get permission so the staff of such places are informed as to what is going on. Doing such won't prevent the general public from being curious, but it'll make the staff more comfortable with the idea. I've found through my experiences working in large chain stores that in most places if the staff isn't doing anything about an oddity such as a classic car meeting or Walmart Walkers, people don't usually react negatively to it. It wouldn't hurt to ask if the group planning the meetup could provide signs to be posted around the designated area a few days prior so any regular patrons will know what is going on and any interested among the public can come by and have a quick look.

 

I have brought this up before. Im speaking as someone who has been an undertaker and had people lost to me. I wouldnt again, but I have photographed my doll next to grave architechure, but I used graves of people that are over two hundred years old that I knew were not visited (from speaking with the graveyard workers) and no names were featured. To me its not so much the lack of respect for the dead, but for the visitors to the graves. I would never take photographs of my doll next to graves that are still kept and visited, in respect for the people who visit the graves of their family and friends. I have family friends in a graveyard nearby and if I found someone putting their dolls or toys or art or whatever on those graves I would give them a mouthful. I would just expect more of people, especially grown ups. I was absolutely disgusted by someone on this forum who took pictures of their doll 'hilariously' falling into a freshly placed bunch of flowers on someones grave. That, to me, is fked up.
In my home town the sabotage of graves is rife; graves are broken, gifts to the graves are stolen and burnt, plus obscene items are left in place. An incident with a babies grave with mutilated dolls left was local news and people were charged. Any sort of tampering with graves is treated very seriously, you dont know who is watching even if you think you are being very careful and respectful. Is it worth it all to take some pictures of a doll next to a grave?

 

I'm sure it depends on your area, wether or not it is 'worth it'. It's a shame that your hometown had such problems.

Yes, out of sensitivity for those living, I wouldn't do a photoshoot near a grave of someone who recently departed or was still often visited. And I certainly wouldn't feature any names in photos.

 

Another thing I have noticed that hasnt been brought up...abandoned sites. I was a site photographer in the North of England for a couple of years, where I would get to photograph abandoned places, and they were then exhibited. Places I visited were asylums, hospitals, nunnerys, factories, etc. Although the thought crossed my mind, I never brought a doll along, mainly because I personally thought it would ruin the shoot I was doing. The places were hazardous to people, so I wasnt bringing along my doll!
Some of these places even if I had the opportunity I wouldnt have brought along, I just found the idea of posing a doll in an asylum or nunnery very tacky, my photographer partner had once had family in the asylum and I personally felt strange enough being a man going into an old closed nunnery! Respect is always something that comes up for me with sanctuaries, hospitals, graveyards. Maybe I would have photographed with my doll in some of the industrial sites if they were a little less hazardous and clean as they all look very neutral and the scale could have worked well in parts. As someone brought up the notion of scale before, I think alot of locations I wouldnt want to photograph my dolls in are because the scale doesnt look good.

Edit: Mainly the debate has been about old places, how about new places, used by the public? Someone mentioned about overcrowding a restaurant with dolls on the table, I find that quite uncomfortable. Has anyone ever photographed dolls in museums or on public displays? Art galleries? I find the idea of in museums and art galleries quite interesting but at the same time I wouldnt ever want to be in peoples way.

 

personally i find meet up location a no issue. when our group gets together yeah we have a tendency to hang out all day. (we are talking from 1pm till like7/8 pm or later depending on the resturant) but we order food almost all day. and we tip well. (gawd do we tip well, i put a 10 tip on a 20 meal.)

we also do doll meets at the mall when mini con is going on at suncoast. i highly doubt the secruity is going to be that interested in the adult women with dolls as they are with the guy in the black trench coat with the 6ft sitar.

really it doesn't matter what you do you will tick off someone. alot of people have doll meets at anime conventions. for most it's a normal and accepted cause hey, heavily influenced by anime and such. yada yada. but at a con around here, not only does the con chair not want the dolls there he's pretty rude to you if you have them. he doesn't allow doll panels or anything non-anime. as in no video game related things either or street fashion. he's finds them offensive at cons because they are not anime.

 

Echoing what others have said; it's all about intent and having enough good sense to be respectful. I've never taken photos of my doll in a cemetary, but I might if the setting was nice and if I would not be bothering anyone. I do in fact love to photograph old graveyards, it's a bit of a hobby even though I'm not religious. I love the history. One of my favorite pics I've taken is of an old confederate tombstone, so old the name has worn off, that had a big crack in the top where a tiny acorn had sprouted. If I'd had a doll then, I'd have posed her off to the side, pointing up to the little sprout with a sweet smile. I wouldn't think that would offend anyone, but I'm sure someone out there would get pissed.

 

Honestly, I haven't seen many of your photos (and hadn't noticed gravestones in the backgrounds of the ones I have seen), so there was no insult intended.

I don't have an issue with cemeteries themselves. I like photographs of cemeteries in general and I have taken several in different countries. Many of them make beautiful settings because they are well-kept; what I don't care for are photos of dolls draped on or leaning against specific gravestones, especially recent ones. I don't like when people take pictures of their dolls with headstones that they think are very funny or make a pun with their doll.

Older graves don't particularly bother me; my concern is more for the living than the departed (though I think that the remains should be treated with respect as well). I wouldn't want to find someone taking photos of their dolls on my grandmother's grave, and I would afford that same courtesy to others. I would worry less about offending an 1812 widow, so those are more acceptable. (Though again, I wouldn't take them myself due to scale and concern for damaging or knocking over a fragile stone).

 

Just be glad you live somewhere with cool tombstones. To make maitenence easier they have been putting all ours flush with the ground so that the mowers can just run over all the graves without having to dodge those pesky tombstones. If mowing over people's graves on your giant John Deer while cranking country music isn't disrespectful, then I have a hard time finding fault with posing one's dolls there.

 

seriously to that, that is all i have. there are no words i have to describe what i'm thinking right now.

 

It's been more than a year since I stopped posting new picture sets on DoA, for reasons related to the feelings expressed in this thread's predecessors, among others. Given that, I wouldn't expect you or anyone else here to know my pictures from Adam's housecat's, honestly... Though a fair few of them are, indeed, taken in a favorite cemetery. It's just a beautiful, naturalistic setting, and those are in short supply in the city.

That aside, I agree with you on the issue of mocking the names on monuments (I remember the "Butts" photo. THAT was tacky. ) or damaging the stones... But people get up in arms about graveyard pictures, even when you're being careful and not doing anything to demean the dead. Just look at some of the posts in this thread, or in the older ones that have touched on this subject.

Apparently, even being in a cemetery is enough to offend some posters.

 

Last summer, I went to a cemetery in Copenhagen and was stunned to find people biking through it, tanning between the grave plots, having picnics... but they were most assuredly there and doing so.

Initially, my thoughts ran along the same lines: how disrespectful. But no one was disturbing the actual graves in any fashion, no one seemed to do anything but appreciate the beauty of the place itself. That rapidly caused my perspective to change. It was far more -- again, in my perspective -- healthy, in a way, to see life alongside death in this way, as it seemed to signify the living accepting their mortality, and sharing their warmth and joy as well as their tears with those who have passed.

Would I take pics of my dolls there? Absolutely! Would they be on a headstone or a grave site or within the confines or boundaries of one? Absolutely not!

 

This rather interesting... especially considering that there was a time in this country and in England when going to the cemetry was a way to relax. Many cities did not have recreational areas or parks, they went to the large cemetries. That's why they look the way they do (the large metropolitan ones). They were/are landscaped, in the true meaning of the word, some have ponds, trees, benches, and sculptures.
So how is going to a cemetary to take photographs of a doll disrepectful, when people at one time took picnics in the same areas? Of course as cities became more polulated, they removed the cemetaries or moved the bodies.
I would like my grave seen as a place to enjoy life then for it to be neglected. Lets face it, after 2 or 3 generations, no one is going to go to your grave or mine at least. Of course I could always ask to be made into a diamond. Now that's creepy wearing your relatives.... Life Gems (is the company I think).

Of than that, I wouldn't photograph a doll on a recent grave... it would be rather embarssing and painful (especially if the family showed up). Of course I wouldn't do any gross or stupid pose photographs either. I would want "pretty" sculptures or the landscape in the photographs. Or maybe I wanted my Grandma to "see" my dolls, so maybe they would be there to say "hi".

 

that's a whole other basket of kittens; "Is is right to make doll jewellery from LifeGems?"

 

We aren't the only people who think that it can be distasteful- however, I did state quite clearly I was reffering to fairly recent burials (In which case there are likely to be living mourners) and actual graves. I don't have an issue personally with the architecture or surrounding gardens. It just comes across as insenstive to some people; it's all part of an opinion. I certainly wouldn't go into your photoshoot and be nasty about it- if I don't want to see something then I either don't look; or I just leave. I think a Victorian cemetary would be a very attractive place for a photo shoot actually...