Controversial Locations - Where do YOU draw the line?

I can't speak for my ancestors. If I was buried and someone would be having fun on top of my grave, I would be okay with it. I just enjoy laughter, even if they are disrespectful. I would adore to have dolls on top of me having fun. I find cemeteries beautiful, the tombstones are some work of art. I personally would not place me dolls on top of someone else's tomb, but I wouldn't mind if they did on my own. I would be dead and my life would be over, so what's to lose but laughs? ~Gus

 

*lol* I...actually think I could. That's...I dunno. Funny? Disturbing? Both?
*snort* I can just see someone doing that. "Hey Aunt Elizabeth? Could you maybe move a few feet to the left? You're in my shot." XP

Oh, yeah, now *that* would be bad. *has a horrible mental picture of someone attempting to place their doll in front of a priceless painting, only to have the doll fall and poke a hole in it*
Exactly. My only real concern with photos in cemeteries is that people aren't marking all over them or kicking them over or something. I really, really dislike the idea of defacing headstones, but non destructive shoots are something entirely different.

 

It's probably difficult to read every single post in this thread since it's kind of fast paced... Anyway, I mentioned hospitals and mosques in my posts. And like I said, I don't even think you'd be allowed to take photographs of a bjd in a mosque. I think the Muslim religion doesn't take too kindly to anything that looks human that isn't, especially if it has anatomically correct bits covered or not. So I'm fairly certain that a mosque would be an inappropriate place to take pictures of one, as an example. And I'm sure if someone managed to do it, there'd be some kind of controversial issue arise because of it. Although personally, I wouldn't find this as big of a deal, because I have been in a mosque before, and they tend to have spectacular architecture. But I simply wouldn't do it if I knew that it might offend anyone.

 

I understand that the sites need to be paid for (If possible), however, my feelings are that if the owner of the cemetery went out and said "Stop" or "I can't have you taking pictures here." Then yes, of course I would stop. But short of that, I don't see reasons why not to take photos there other than simple common courtesy. That's just not a reason for me.

I mean, if we led our world with courtesies alone, we would be insulting every person on earth. In some countries, we aren't supposed to mourn the dead, some they don't even act as if it is any different than any other day. Some grieve greatly. If we are supposed to be respectful of others, it should be all round. Not one sided to accommodate for only one sides needs, wishes, and desires.

I get that it would be a bit weird for someone to come up and see someone at their deceased relations graves, but a respectable person would appropriately just ask them to leave if it bothered them that much. Right? But honestly, what's it harming? I could see if someone were digging around or pulling up things, or breaking pieces of pewter with their dolls; but taking pictures? Does that honestly harm things? With a small piece of resin that weighs less than some birds that perch on them? Or other small animals?

I mean, we live in a world were slander appears to be nothing more than paparazzi and politics that feel the need to cripple another person's character and thus end up honored and glamorized because of it. How is that any different in the terms of disrespect? We are a world of disrespect, I feel it’s simply the same thing.

 

I've taken plenty of photos in cemeteries and have spent a lot of time in them.
I'm another one of those who scrubs or tidies graves, sometimes of loved ones, sometimes strangers.
If it is not a private cemetery, if one is quiet/respectful and not doing any harm to the grounds or the graves, and if one is ESPECIALLY respectful and mindful of ANYONE AND EVERYONE ELSE IN THE CEMETERY, if there is anyone else there, there's no real problem.

Personally, if a name is totally legible on a grave, and the grave is not that of a relative or loved one, I think it is in semi-bad taste to take doll pix (or "look at me in a cemetery" pix) that photograph it at such an angle that it can be fully read without permission...if the photos will be publicly displayed somewhere like this. Some places actually have laws to that effect about filming in cemeteries, as well.

In other cultures, and in other times, it has been perfectly acceptable to spend time among graves, or among the dead--taking walks, for example, or some people even have picnics. My grandfather is buried in a public cemetery that boarders a public pond. He enjoyed fishing and we once fished in that pond to honor him.

Some people feel it is disrespectful to take doll photos in front of stores, or next to public statues...or even where they can see someone else's house in the background. I have heard people say that it is disrespectful to take doll photos with veterans' memorial statues or retired army tanks.
It is all a matter of opinion.

Something you do will bother somebody somewhere. Always.
All you can do is try to be considerate and decent in what you do, and respectful/accommodating if someone expresses reasonable concern or offense if they encounter you doing it. Let common sense enter into it.

Complaints of that nature are valid within reason, but for some things, I think people need to lighten up a bit.

 

I don't think my brother would like me taking pictures of his grave with my dolls, but he wouldn't get TOO too mad at me if I did. Though it would seem like I would be taking advantage of his death or something...

 

Wow. 110% I completely agree with that. Sure, I find the idea weird myself, and I debate simple to be the devil's advocate most of the time, but that has been the best response I've seen throughout the entire thing! Thank you for posting such a great concept!

You're my hero o' this thread! ^0^

 

I'd mentioned things a bit back, and a couple of other people have tried to as well, but I know for a fact that a lot of local areas have rooms and spaces that if you reserve ahead of time you can use for group events. If it costs money it probably isn't anything major that can't be covered by a group. As well, I'd had a great experience at a doll museum where a place was reserved ahead of time and we could take photos and eat pie and had a great time.

As was mentioned earlier, there are a lot of venues available if you call ahead of time and use for meetups that are only controversial if you gather without asking ahead of time. I'd love to have a meetup at my local botanical gardens and wouldn't mind paying the $5 to get in because the photos would be worth it.

But I think a lot of people are right in that a lot of it boils down to intent, presentation, and respect. Any place can turn into a bad location if the people are rude and and obnoxious.

 

Personally, I see cemeteries, graveyards, crypts, churches, etc, all as works of art, despite my lack of faith for what they stand for. As works of art, they should be treated as such. Respect for the living who mourn there, and respect for the dead who are at rest is demanded of anyone who visits, for whatever reason they may be visiting for.

Myself, in my honest opinion, see graveyards and cemeteries as beautiful backdrops for portraits or any sort of photography. I have visited cemeteries and taken pictures there, both with my dolls and without. I never stepped on the graves, I never was disrespectful in any shape or form. When I took pictures of my dolls there, they were kept off the graves and statues and any pictures I took had the graves blurred and out of focus. Any graves I took pictures of were old, weathered away, and clearly well loved. I stayed away from newer graves as it wasn't my right to be walking there or disrupting them with my photography.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that I don't see it disrespectful to take photos or pose dolls in a graveyard. Honestly, I see these pictures projecting more peace and serenity than many other clear, bright day photos I see. The line between peaceful, quiet respect and blatant disrespect is a fine line, and needs to be carefully walked. Sitting on graves, standing over them, jumping over them, being rowdy, loud, etc etc - is what I hope anyone would agree to as disrespectful. Making morbid scenes is something that should not be done on site, that should be taken to a studio. These are places of peace and rest, ultimately, overall, that must not be disturbed.

 

Even though I am religious and sentemental I have always loved graveyards for all their beauty and neglected art. I can see your point that some might consider it offensive to take photos of ones dolls on a gravestone of a stranger however there are are alot of other things that are done on grave sites and graves stones which are disgusting and replusive. So comparing the two ( which I will refrain from saying what I am refering too) I would say the taking your doll photos at a cemetary is okay. I took alot of personal photos and modeling photos in cememtaries across the nation and never had anyone saying anything about it. I think to its nice in a way that the people that are sleeping there are in a way still being apart of something. Of course I would never be drinking booze or laughing all crazy or stomping out ciggerettes on a grave but its actually a solemn occasion. *shrug* just MO.

 

I've done a shoot in an old (late 1800's) cemetery, and my opinion is that it's fine so long as you're respectful. As some descendants of the buried were present (my history class volunteered to help them with raking leaves and such), I did ask permission first, and they were cool with it.

For other locations, I think memorials and hospitals are okay as long as you aren't bothering anyone, and I don't see any issue at all with schools and libraries, provided you aren't bugging anyone else and have gotten any necessary permission. Museums usually don't allow any photography, period, so of course I'd follow their rules. For churches, it depends... it'd be okay where I attend, but elsewhere I'd definitely ask first, and go with whatever their policy is.

Oh, and if any future generations want to have a dolly photoshoot on my grave, I think that'd be great!

 

I take my camera sometimes to the cemetary when visiting my granparents, Though I generally leave it in the car. There is an eagle there I'd like to get a photo of, he sometimes sits on the headstones. I do love the older statues and angels. I don't think I'd take my dolls there though.

I don't take my dolls anywhere though, so I'm not a good example for this.

 

Call it close minded or avoiding the current topic at hand, but aside from graveyards and churches which obviously might offend people. What about hospitals?

How many of you would be offended if someone took photos of their doll in a hospital, or rather how many of you would take a doll photo in a hospital?

 

I don't know about where you live, but down here in the south we don't have cematry guards.

I don't find it disrespectful in the slightest. Sorry, but I don't think the dead will mind. Not trying to be rude in that sense, I'm being serious. If they are "looking down on us" I don't think they'll be upset by some photographers and their dolls.

Other places that I find Controversial... not many, but temples maybe? Any place considered holy. (Which is not a category that I place graveyards under)

Truely, I can't think of any place other than holy grounds.

 

See, now that depends. Is this theoretical someone just waltzing into a hospital to take pictures, or are they visiting someone and taking pictures in the room they are in, or are they a patient in the hospital themselves? If its choice 1, ugh, no. Personally that just seems weird, although i can't imagine a hospital would allow that to happen. Choice 2? As long as they arent disrupting anyone else, i dont see the harm. Choice 3? Hey, if its me, can i have someome take a picture of my doll in the OR or something? Can she be staring at my appendix in a jar? I'd use photos involving my dolls (or doll, whichever. Damn straight i'd have one with me.) while i was in the hospital myself. I'd probably live vicariously through them somehow to get through whatever was causing me to be there in the first place. You can be certain that i'd make use of whatever i was allowed to in doing so >=]

Of course, yet again, in case 3, that would be so long as it wasnt disturbing anyone else. If soemone down the hall was coding, there'd be no way i'd be anywhere near there. I'll be in a lobby elsewhere, or simply in whatever room i'm in.




Chaos Aroura: I dont know about other cemetaries, but i know the one i was at certainly had a guard. Security or something. Gotta keep watch for tresspassors and vandals. Of course. I suppose my friends and i hapened to be trespassors that night ^^;; We'd been taking a walk through the cemetary as we often did, it ust hapened to be a night. So what does the guard guy do when he sees four 13/14 year old girls wandering around? Scarest eh crap out of us, and we responded by hiding behind the nearest headstones >>;;; Stupidest thing ever. He responded by following us (in his truck) out of the cemetary and up the street till he knew we wouldnt be coming back ^^;; If he wasnt a guard, i dont know what he was XD

 

Torren - It'd probably be a case where either you were in the hospital or you were visiting someone. Like waiting in the lobby or actually in a hospital room with the person your visiting.

See I wonder because while I didn't and wouldn't do it because I do acknowledge that photography is artistic, but I DO also acknowledge that bjds are TOYS! ....DOLLS and nothing more...(that being said toys aren't allowed in some places no matter what your hobby is. I highly doubt a lot of people would understand an adult *or someone close to adult age* taking photos of a doll when in general your probably to old to still even have dolls XD I in general only take photos around my house or at a playground. *completly OT*) Yes I wonder if anyone would find it okay to do.

And moreso to relate this to the hot topic of this forum, would taking photos of dolls in a hospital *being a visitor in said hospital* be more disrespectful than taking photos in a grave because they're alive/sick? Would it be less offensive since the people in the hospital aren't dead/a hospital isn't a holy place *outside of the chapel*? or would it be wrong for both?

 

Interesting experience... We went to the Chinese Gardens for a meet, paid $5 to get in. There were two wedding shoots in progress, plus us people running around with our dolls. There was no problem at all. When they wanted to take photos at a place, they asked us politely, and we all moved. Then they thanked us as when they were done. We took measures to stay out of their photos. Even though it was a public area that wasn't very big and there was clearly some kind of arranged event going on that we were unaware of previously, there was no trouble. So, behaviour and intent really is very important.

And the photos were splendid indeed. ^_^

If it's in the privacy of the room, I don't see anything wrong if the person you're visiting is fine with it. But outside in the corridors, I do think it's sort of bothersome. You have visitors walking about, patients, nurses, the nurses wheeling carts around, doctors, etc. If people wonder how is that different from any other public area, then I think you have to consider that some of the people there are worrying about their health, or their loved ones, or their patients. If we're brightening their day with a toy, it's one thing. If we're obstructing their way, being a nuisance or being insensitive to their time there, then it's an entirely different thing.

 

It may be easy for you, but not all artists are all-rounders, as it were—some people’s talents start and stop at photography, without extending into sculpture and carving (and vice versa). The people who created the grave markers put a lot of craftsmanship into them! Sure, I could make something out of styrofoam and paint that would be recognizable as a gravestone, and for some purposes that would be great. But there are other purposes that just would not be served by my own unskilled scrabblings at sculpture.

Again, you say churches are “easy” to replicate in miniature. For a photostory, you might be right—it might not be too hard to, say, set up an altar, or build something out of foamcore that looks recognizeably like a pew. But that’s very different from wanting to take photos with existing works of art and architecture. It would be hard to capture the reality of light coming through a stained glass window using plastic wrap and transparent paints—for some people and some contexts, it would be close enough, but if the window or the light itself is part of your interest, it would take a lot of artistry to do it yourself.
I do agree that photos taken in and around places of worship should be respectful, and if there is a very strong prohibition in that religion against certain things (someone brought up the fact that the Islamic faith holds that non-human things in human shape are very inappropriate, and they also have some strong prohibitions against photography overall in some contexts) one should keep that in mind as well. So dolls draped in satanic symbols posed on the altar of a church? That would bug me a lot. But a doll looking up at a stained glass window (with the photo of course taken when there was no service going on in the church)? Lovely.
Speaking of respect, the museum in my hometown does allow photos, and I would dearly love to take my dolls there—if nothing else, then to snap a few shots with the “Old Town” donkey and the stuffed wooly mammoth (). But you’re not allowed to take photos in the First Nations gallery, and despite the fact that there are a great many very beautiful things there, I wouldn’t go against that strong prohibition by a whole culture (well, several cultures actually). Basically, if the place/culture allows photos at all, I feel that respectful photos when the place/thing is not actively in use or you are not obstructing others’ enjoyment are fine even if they include dolls.

I think that this is something that’s very much about personal taste. Some people feel that scale is very important; they spend a lot of effort in their photography on making sure that their dolls look human-sized in their environments. It can be really striking, and I’m awed by how well people do it, using careful choices of location and perspective as well as props. But for some people, the dolls inhabit the same world we do, and…they’re small. So for some people, a doll looking like it’s doll-sized might not be a drawback, but rather feed into the effect they’re looking for. Also, does it look tacky when people are photographed next to some of the huge monuments around the world? Some of them feature lettering that’s easily the height of a person’s head. Whether or not it’s to your artistic taste is up in the air, but I don’t think it’s inherently poor photography.

What if I’m going because I want to be at peace with or explore my own fear of mortality through photography with my dolls? I’m not goth, nor are my dolls. I haven’t taken any photos at graveyards, but I would (in a respectful manner). I might take a photo of my orphan pondering a grave marker…to me, it would be meaningful and affecting (whether or not I could convey that to any observer is questionable…I do try, but I’m more artistic in concept than execution). This is one of the motivations for a graveyard (or other controversial location) shoot that hasn’t really been explored in this thread: what if it’s really appropriate for the doll? If my doll was a real girl, she would be the sort to wander in graveyards, leaving flowers and reading the inscriptions. If I am staying away from new gravestones (and for me, new would generally encompass anything less than eighty years old, with some flexibility for famous folks) and being respectful of everyone who is using the graveyard for any reason, and it makes sense in some way for her to be there, it seems perfectly appropriate to me.

 

After ready all 7 pages and my first post on page one, I had a long think on the grave site thing again... My most dearest friend died 4 years ago this December and while I have taken photographs of my dolls at his parents house and in the garden where we played as kids and in the fish pond near by etc... I could never ever in my wildest dreams take pictures of any of my dolls on his grave-site or where he died... I'm getting emotional just thinking about it.

So I guess again it comes back to the individuals preferences I had said earlier I have no issue with it when done tastefully and respectfully and as a thoughtful homage to the passing of the person etc... but even the thought of someone even touching Shawn's grave makes me die a little inside... I guess a sense of detatchment from the subject made it okay for me, but when its someone I know its not okay.... So I guess I understand where everyone is coming from and that each of you is right from each perspective.

As for other places that I find innapropriate, I cant really think of anything beside religious shrines... I'd eat brass tacks before I took pictures of Suomy in a Mosque or Tabbernacle or even St Pauls Cathedral, I took photos outside places like The Vatican when I was in Rome; but inside... hooooeeee I like my good JuJu

hmmmm also today I was in the nearest "real" town to where I live 'Gympie' and all the Jacarandas (Australian Native Tree) are in flower, they are kinda like the Japaneese Cherry Blossom in nature only they are HUGE and have vivid purple flowers and carpet the ground surrounding the tree in the most glorious colour... I REALLY wanted to do a photoshoot with my Pukis in the coloufull mess but the only safely accessable tree believe it or not was in the front garden of a hospice/retirement home for the infirmed.... I just couldnt do it.....