Controversial Locations - Where do YOU draw the line?

I admit that graves aren't as great in styrofoam, but I'm not necessarily saying you can't take pictures of real graves, either. I simply feel that if you MUST take a picture of a doll, as quoted from my first post here:

"As far as dolls go, if you have to take pictures of your dolls at certain graves, either try to get permission before you lay your resin all over it. . . or use one of your family's graves. You'll be surprised how many people react positively to your request."

If you're absolutely certain that the grave has no living keepers, have at it and clean it up or something when you're done. I wouldn't really know a whole lot about choices when it comes to new and old graves, as the town I've lived in all my life has one public cemetery, and the old are mixed with the very new. A beautiful angel from 1930 stands right next to a classmate of mine who shot himself four years ago.

If it makes it any more specific, the build your own cemetery statement was made with the following activities in mind: romance (heterosexual, homosexual or otherwise), horseplay (like in some comedy photo stories wherein dolls clamber about on the headstones and fall in the flowers), offense (humping graves, making fun of the names on the headstones), shock or photo whoring (OMG I'M IN A GRAVEYARD! CHECK OUT MY EDGY PHOTOGRAPHY! PRAISE MY OVERALL UNORIGINALITY!) or any religious manner intentionally opposite the religion of the object in the photo (Church alter, cross, wiccan symbol, what have you.)

I've seen some amazing photography in graveyards, but unfortunately, I've seen very few doll pictures taken in cemeteries that truly had been taken for showing mourning or respect to the dead or for portraying an emotion or situation appropriate for a graveyard. What I really wonder, though, is why it has to be a doll. The statues and tombstones are every bit as beautiful without the doll as they could be with one. Call me old fashioned, but it just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

Again, I use the build one yourself idea for the same common scenarios I've provided for the cemeteries. I admit I have never seen a picture of a doll in a church for anything other than a photostory, and I have never been to a church that has been open to photography when there isn't a service going on. I wouldn't know about the temptation of taking a picture of a doll in some stained glass of a church, mostly because I've seen stained glass in more readily available places. Perhaps it's just my location, but I haven't traveled much recently and thus would have no way of knowing.

If taking pictures of dolls in a cemetery is really what does it for you, then who am I to stop you? You can "What if" a situation all day but in the end it won't make a bit of difference to someone who ponders their mortality alone, the same as if I were to say to you "What if I like to explore my natural fear of death by myself?" In the end, all I've covered is my opinion, and all you've covered is yours. If you wish to go to your local cemetery and take pictures of your dolls and an issue arises from that, none of our opinions are going to matter in the situation except yours, that of the physical being(s) that oppose your being there, and any mediator that may have come about to resolve the situation.

 

I have visted famous cemtaries all across the U.S hence my earllier post.. I would love to go to Highgate in London though.

 

I know I would be heart-broken if I saw a stranger standing on a loved ones grave with their dolls sprawled out snapping pictures.

 

I think it depends on the graveyard/gravestones.

I've seen a few posts about taking pictures of ancient grave sites where it seems like no one has been there in years. I agree - you really can't beat a setting like that, and if no harm is being done to the site, then I do not see how it is disrespectful. An abandoned graveyard is just that -- Abandoned. No one could be hurt by the actions done.

But if we're talking about a modern gravesite where there is constant security and people frequently visiting the stones, I would then say it's highly inappropriate unless there was another valid reason for being there. If you're visiting your own dead family members grave, and you don't feel they would have minded some dollie shoots there, then fine. But as for other somewhat recently filled sites that bear no relation to you, that's a sort of 'use at your own risk' situation. And I'm not talking about memorials that are meant for tourist use. I'm talking about real graveyards where there are real corpses buried there (and not of famous people, but of your average joe).

Just imagine, you're getting really into the zone, taking pics, posing dollies, doing your thing, and a family shows up. It would be awkward and embarrassing for both parties and this is -regardless of the artists' mindset-!

Some posts have said that if the artist goes into the shoot with a respectful and artistic mindset and not a 'how cool, dead people, let's take some pictures' attitude, then it's okay. But a family stumbling across either of these types of people isn't going to see a difference. In the shots, of course, you can tell who just did it for kicks and who actually had some 'meaning' with it. But right then if there is a collision of people in real life, it would just be more than horrifying and absurd to a family to hear an explanation, especially if they were not into a photography/dollie hobby themselves.

Religious or no, there are boundaries to actions and people just have to use their best judgment. Should an artist decide it is worth the risk to intrude on a gravesite, then sure, nothing may happen. But if something should, it would spoil the whole meaning of the photoshoot in the first place.

As for other places, I could see how a hospital may be inappropriate if it is distracting others or interrupting any of the hospital services in general, but that goes for any workplace as well. If people are trying to do jobs, and a photo shoot is happening, causing some sort of fuss, then that would be one of those controversial times.

It's really all about how your actions may affect other people. If it has the potential to ruin someone's day, regardless of the area, then it comes down to an individuals own sense and that's what makes it controversial.

 

It's a shame you want to leave the debate Jesicissa, you said you tend the graves and don't always take the doll out, then there's no need to feel offend by people's opinions of putting dolls on a grave and taking pictures as being disrespectful.

 

personally I don't see to much of a problem with a photo shoot in a cemetery, as long as it's done tastefully mind you. My mom works for a cemetery and they get all kinds of people (including me ) that take pictures or do paintings of the graves and rest of the grounds. Before you do anything though I think it would be best if you ask the cemetery about it first just to make sure. i would also try not to get the names on the graves in the picture if it can be helped.

 

When I do photo shoots in cemeteries I always leave flowers on the graves I shot near. Something like a thank you.

I suppose I'm a little weird though.

 

Hemlock Key - Actually I think thats a great thing to do. I mean most people would probably be offended by that...clearly from this debate there are those who would be offended. I think that yeah...the least you could do for borrowing the person's grave is to leave flowers as if to say "Sorry for flopping my doll on you, but thanks for not turning into a zombie and eatting my brains for doing it" XD *goofball*

 

What I mean is sometimes I shoot them as dolls, not characters/people. Some people get really into making everything in scale so it looks realistic and like the doll is a real person. I like those shoots and plan to do some of my own once I actually start the photo stories I have in mind (and have enough dolls to make them), but in the mean time, I like to imagine them as tiny people getting into mischief or exploring the real world around them. Much like the shoots Loa & I have done in graveyards (and I hope it wasn't ours that sparked this thread, I feel they are full of emotion) have been either about feelings and exploration, we haven't tried to hide the scale of the monuments and stones around them, instead we've played off them. The idea of our dolls being in graveyards seems to fit with their characters. Each of them might enjoy the peace and quiet offered there, or enjoy reading the stones, or many of the other things other people in this thread have mentioned about why they enjoy going to grave yards w/ or w/out dolls. One of my two dolls, Tanni Atropos is supposed to be a manifestation of the Greek Fate Atropos, the cutter of threads, the ender of lives, so she feels very close to those passed on, and it would make sense for her to be hanging out there, perhaps making sure all is well for those she has sent there. And my Beryl & Loa's Sard aren't demonic at all, so our choice of shooting them in a graveyard had everything to do with shooting them in beautiful artistic sculptures and less with the fact that we were doing it in a graveyard.

And by the dolls being realistic, I just mean they're made to look startlingly like people, so why can't they just be tiny little people?

In the end I suppose all I'm saying is that I'm sorry if it offends someone, but I enjoy spending time in graveyards, and I don't see why I can't extend that enjoyment into my new love for the bjd hobby.

 

I can say I have done a photoshoot in a graveyard in the past. I live across the street from a historic one that has plots from the original pioneers all the way to the more recent deceased. The site itself abuts a large city park, and a new town home development. It was actually a learning experience about the origins of the city I live in, and its founding fathers. I learned where and who all the street and building names came from. There is even a memorial to soldiers who fought in a war. I also noticed that a lot of people frequently walk their dogs in the grave yard, because unlike the park, they do not enforce cleaning up after dogs there...

I was very sensitive to the grave sites, and while I admired many of the head stones, I chose only to take photos in a far off almost forgotten corner. The headstones were crumbling so I was careful to avoid them. One, a concrete block that said nothing more than Mother, seemed more than appropriate for the context of my photostory. I was careful to keep any headstones with names out of my photos.

I wouldn't say that taking photos in any place is wrong. Whether something is right or wrong depends on context. If I was taking photos of my dolls disrespecting a grave by mimicking urinating on them, that would be wrong to me. Taking photos of my dolls working out their own personal angst over the loss of their own mother was appropriate to me in the context of the shoot.

If there had been anybody else in the cemetery, I am sure I would have left without opening my doll bag out of respect for their privacy and just continued on to the park down the trail. If anybody had asked me to leave while I was there, I would have quietly left. It really wasn't a big deal to me and if I had felt like I was upsetting anybody I wouldn't have been there.

 

While I have mixed feelings about graveyard photography, I have to say that Ka-la's got my feelings pretty much summed up.
I don't much agree on taking photographs with your doll on someone's grave, or revealing the name of said person's grave... but a cemetery is a public place, so, 'generalizing' the photo is fine with me. Maybe your girl is sitting under a tree, overlooking the rows of headstones. Maybe your boy is standing behind a headstone.

A little OT, but, some people have very lovely headstones. I know of a few famous photographers who have books on tombstones and graveyards, all wonderful photographs, for sale. To deny someone the right to photograph in a cemetery is denying freedom of expression.. so, if it's allowed by the owners of the facility, then I think it's fine otherwise.

On another note... I live sandwiched between two cemeteries. There's one across the street, too, and another a few blocks down. There ARE some very lovely areas I'd like to take my boys, but I don't find the headstones particularly interesting there. In fact, if I did find one of interest, I'd more than likely photograph that without my boys in the shot at all! I really think photos with dolls posing with a headstone are a little cheesy, unless it's well done or telling a story, anyway. They all tend to look the same... I'm not saying they're bad, but they just aren't something I'm interested in.

 

lifeisgood You make me laugh Thiz iz gud!! LOL And yeah there were a few family break-ups over marriage choices way back... My own Mother in law is a staunch Catholic and so is my husband, and as I said I'm Church of England so our kids couldnt be baptised Catholic... but all in all I still have a deeply profound respect for every belief, I bawled my guts out in the Vatican Crypt when we saw PJP II's tomb.

I dont truly think one's religious back ground though is a big contributing factor in what constitutes repect

I'm facinated by all the differeing of opinions here, normaly I state my case and depart under a hail of rocks... heheh but this is just awesome!! All the sharing and different perspectives is just WOW, loving it all!!

Another place that was raised earlier was Hospitals.... I took pictures only this morning of my Puki crouching over my GF's new born daughters Humidicrib - The baby is in perfect health just a little on the small size so she's not in any danger of passing away, some might find that distastefull, but she loves my dolls and this Puki is a little Angel so it was precious to see two tiny gorgeous little things together. I wont be posting these in the forums either just fyi because Milla had no-say in the matter It was almost like Sugar was protecting Milla whilst she slept...

However as far as taking the pics anywhere else in the hospital... say the morgue or anythign else... Nooooo Waaaaay!! Not only would it be a little freaky but well yeah its just too freaky LOL

I think fast food outlets could be controversial maybe? Only beacuse you (general) could be holding up their sales or whatever by taking up time posing etc... I personally would LOVE to see a BJD at the soda refill machine, too cute an idea but I'd never do it myself....

 

As cliche as it is, I don't find it inappropriate so long as the dolls aren't doing anything inappropriate. I photographed long before I had dolls and I can say there's plenty of photographers that will wander around graveyards taking pictures of things (including the gravestones) that catch their eye.

Going inside a church I might find a bit awkward (probably because while I'm not religious, a lot of my family is Catholic), but I wouldn't say it's inappropriate. I'd be more cautious in the area and most likely ask if it would be okay to photograph, but I wouldn't regard it as a completely off limits location. People use churches to film in all the time, so that's mainly how I see it. Besides... Catholic churches are so beautiful... I can't see why anyone wouldn't want to photograph inside one at least once with or without a doll.

All in all, I wouldn't really regard any location as off limits so long as you act professionally when others approach you and if you have to ask permission. Just be respectful when taking the photos and do them tastefully... and as someone said here earlier *I can't find the post again* leaving some flowers or something before you leave is a pretty nice way of saying thank you.

Honestly, art is art. And if someone were to use my headstone in an artistic way, especially if they plan to use it in an art portfolio or something to that effect, I think I'd be honoured that I could help that person out. Dead or not. And honestly, I'd be surprised if my family didn't feel the same way since we're all a family of artists.

 

It all depends how it's done. If it's done in respected of the deceaced (like not making fun of the tombstone or showing their names in any ways) I say if people do it, it's their choice. And it's your choice if you don't want to do it. But what right have you to tell other how they should act?

Last time I checked people were free to do things like that and if there isn't a law against it nor is it illegal. It's just a question of your own personal beliefs. What happened to "Judge not lest you wish to be judge?"

Personnal choices and morals, really if something offends you well don't look at them. You'll be happy and they'll be happy. The only thing I would condone would be if in taking pictures people were disrecpectful of the graves or did things that were really inapropriate.

And I'm sorry to point this out but grave nowaday are so rarely visited by loved ones that maybe the people burried there are happy to have at least someone take an interest at them! Even if it's people taking pictures with their dolls.

 

Honestly, I think it comes down to peope's personal feelings, rather than right and wrong. If one person feels she is respectful when she takes her photos, she's entitled to that, but at the same time if another feels it distasteful, she is entitled to feel that too.

Personally, I don't like it at all. I'm not a fan of photos taken in any of the mentioned places. I'm atheist and actively believe there is no God or afterlife, but I also actively believe in respecting people who do, and so I would never walk on a grave if I could help it, even though I believe there's nothing left underneath.

I would love to take photos in an abandoned hospital, but given the suffering that went on there I would not do it. As much as I love the imagery. Being an atheist, I don't believe it right for me to take photos in a church either, out of respect for those who worship there.

 

Well the election's over now, but I doubt officials would even allow dolls near the booths...it's be awesome if they did though.

Question: What if you abused your working position to get some really cool shots of your doll/have you ever abused your working position? For example lets say you were a mortician or a worker in the morgue at your hospital, do you think someone might actually do that, would you be tempted? I personally would never and would think it really creepy and just plain wrong! But if this peaks anyone's interest I want to hear your opinions!

 

I find the art and the architecture in graveyards beautifully crafted, so of course I wouldn't mind taking pictures in a graveyard. It's public property, anyone can go to them. I know in my grandmother's time, people went to graveyards to have picnics by the headstones of either a loved one or a random one. To me, graveyards are suppose to bring peace and comfort to people. If taking pictures of your doll in a cemetery is calming, then why not? As long as you don't destroy the headstone and you leave with everything just as it was before you came, I see no problem with it.

 

A lot of people are saying they wouldn't mind if someone took pictures of their grave with dollies and/or that they would be honored for it. I've gotta point out the fact that if you're in a grave, you're likely quite dead, and you would not have feelings on the matter one way or another. It's easy to say while you're alive that you think it's just fine.

But while graves are a resting place for the dead, they are more over a place for mourning for the living. While I personally would not mind someone taking dollie pics on my grave and I can say this while I'm alive, I say it because I am in the hobby and have a respect for the art.

My family, on the other hand, would be absolutely horrified if someone was taking pictures with what they think are expensive barbie dolls. There would be no way to determine if it was done respectfully or not in their eyes. And me, being dead, would not be able to say, 'No no! I don't mind! I'm honored by it!'

Please take into consideration the feelings of the living. Even if you think your entire family that may come to visit your grave would be thrilled to find a stranger doing a photo shoot there, that is not likely the majority. And even if you're not religious yourself, you don't have to be religious to be respectful to other living people.

Also for graves that are not often visited, I feel it would still be considerate to ask the grave facility for permission first. Again, the people buried there are dead. They're not going to 'feel happy' that someone is visiting them regardless of the purpose. They are dead.