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Counter culture v. Mainstream

May 14, 2008

    1. -Do you consider BJD a sort of counter culture? [clarification in post 19]

      Nope...

      -Do you believe that BJD should remain an "exclusive" hobby? (I use that term loosely)

      I really don't consider it any more exclusive than any other hobby. They all have their little circles and their elite collectors. They are often reasonably obscure. I mean... I've met and spoken to more ABJD collectors than I've met Stamp collectors, My little pony collectors or actual Barbie collectors combined... So, yeah. I don't really think its exclusive so much as a not so common collectible...

      -Would it matter if it became popular? Like would you just stop collecting?

      Not at all. If I were that insecure that I'd need to collect something to feel special from the rest... Well... Then I obviously wouldn't be genuinely interested in the dolls... And should likely seek counseling...

      -At what point is the exposure too much?
      When they whip them out in Sex Ed or anatomy class as "educational models"... lol

      -Do you feel special because you collect these dolls? Would you feel less special if more people were active within it?

      Nope. See answer above previous answer...
       
    2. Do you consider BJD a sort of counter culture?

      I do, considering alot of people who are more into 'mainstream' hobbies such as cars or for instance, stamp collecting...find BJD collectors 'odd' and 'creepy'. That is precisely what drew me to this hobby. I hate being stereotyped in with everyone else, when I'm so obviously different. So I guess BJD expresses my artistic passion aswell as my indivuality.


      -Do you believe that BJD should remain an "exclusive" hobby?

      In a way...yes. I think if people bought dolls just because its getting popular and they want to be 'cool' or 'in' would ruin how special the hobby is. We are all here because we are passionate about BJD and the creativeness we can outlet into them. It would be tough to see someone who knows nothing of the culture of BJD to waltz in just because its 'cool' and demand answers to n00b questions we have all been asked a million times, because they didn't bother researching before they bought a doll.

      But also, in a way I don't feel we should exclude other people. heh, I'm on the edge here. If the person is genuinely interested in the artistic and cultural aspects of BJDs aswell as the outright beautiful-ness of them, we have no right to exclude them, we should nudge those people in the right direction. I guess the best we can do is hope that the people who buy BJD are genuinely interested in the hobby and not just being 'in'.

      But every hobby is exclusive in some way. Its hard to categorise BJD into anything more exclusive than being 'expensive' to some people. But I also feel that it takes a person with a certain state of mind to be in the BJD hobby. We're all a little strange aren't we?



      -Would it matter if it became popular? Like would you just stop collecting?

      I would be miffed if for instance, people around me started getting dolls because I had one, and I knew for a fact that those people have no interest in these dolls or the culture of the hobby. It wouldn't stop me from collecting. but i would be sure to put those people in their place if I saw them treating their dolls disrespectfully, or losing interest after a month and stuffing them in a closet.


      -At what point is the exposure too much?

      Hmmm...tough one. The exposure would be too much if for instance, someone like Paris Hilton (used only as an example mind you) started carrying one around in her purse instead of her chihuahua. That would make me sad.


      -Do you feel special because you collect these dolls? Would you feel less special if more people were active within it?

      I can't help but feel special sometimes, because no-one else around here has BJD. But I also feel lonely because I can't go to meetups unless i go to Sydney or Canberra specially for them. So if my friends, whom are all artists, got into BJD's, I'd be thrilled. But maybe not-so-much if some other people got invloved, people who are trend-followers. My city is full of them.


      It's wrong to suggest that BJD should remain completley underground, but it would also ruin the 'magic' of the hobby if it became so mainstream so as evryone you see on TV or walk past has a BJD.
       
    3. It really isn't. I wear Juicy Couture and I like them.. I don't think fandom has a uniform.. but thats OT
       
    4. -Do you consider BJD a sort of counter culture? [clarification in post 19]
      Subculture rather than counterculture, although I don't think that you literally have to be actively rebelling against society to be part of a counterculture. And I agree that the aesthetic of a lot of these dolls, especially boy dolls, is inherently different from mainstream tastes in western culture. Also, just because a lot of people collect dolls doesn't mean that everyone thinks that's perfectly normal and you see representations of it in the media/hear people chat about it around the water cooler. That these are dolls from Asia with a different style about them makes them especially non-mainstream. Whether intentional or not, choosing to participate in this hobby does mean resisting certain culture perceptions of acceptable use of time and money as well as taste.

      -Do you believe that BJD should remain an "exclusive" hobby? (I use that term loosely)
      I would certainly never try to exclude someone, but I do understand reluctance to see them get too popular and accessible. I've been an anime fan for 17 years, and it's very easy for me to get annoyed by much younger fans with no sense of the history of the subculture or how difficult things used to be/how much smaller a subculture it used to be. I'm brand-new to dolls, but I'm sure veterans have to shake their heads at just how much easier it is for new people to get access to these dolls, and how that can lead to less appreciation for what they have.

      Less exclusive also means more competition for what you want, though. I've noticed in another fandom I'm in that's growing, it's a lot harder to get tickets to events than it was a couple years ago >_<.

      -Would it matter if it became popular? Like would you just stop collecting?
      That wouldn't make me stop collecting, no.

      -At what point is the exposure too much?
      At the point where good quality dolls are impossible to find.

      -Do you feel special because you collect these dolls? Would you feel less special if more people were active within it?
      A little, yes. I feel these dolls do have a certain geek cachet ^^;. I don't think more active participants would change that for me, though, especially since that isn't the reason I'm getting into this.
       
    5. -Do you consider BJD a sort of counter culture? [clarification in post 19]
      Not really. Maybe something that is perceived as an obscure or unusual hobby in western societies.

      -Do you believe that BJD should remain an "exclusive" hobby? (I use that term loosely)
      Unless the quality decreases it will always be slighty "exclusive", it's expensive and it's not something you can just get on a trip to the supermarket. Also, this sort of thing is not something most people find interesting anyway, there's a reason why a significant percentage of the people in this forum are artists or people with tastes, hobbies... that are slighty out of the norm.

      -Would it matter if it became popular? Like would you just stop collecting?
      I wouldn't stop collecting unless it meant that the dolls became mass produced in plastic and the aethetics changed to more american/european standards.

      -At what point is the exposure too much? / -Do you feel special because you collect these dolls? Would you feel less special if more people were active within it?
      I admit I enjoy the fact that people don't know about these dolls. I wouldn't be too pleased if it became mainstream and they started selling them in Toys R Us :lol: It wouldn't bother me if they became more popular though... if they could truly be called a counter or sub culture in western countries (which is something I guess they are already in Asia... or maybe I'm generalizing).
       
    6. Do you consider BJD a sort of counter culture?

      BJDs are just dolls, really, with an Asian aesthetic. I suppose BJDs are made symbols of counter culture in film, video clips etc.

      Do you believe that BJD should remain an "exclusive" hobby?

      Didn't know BJD collecting was an exclusive hobby. I don't need any requirements to get one, except the money. Anyone who can afford a BJD only has to click the "Pay Now" button and Voila!

      Would it matter if it became popular? Like would you just stop collecting?
      No. I'd like them to be a bit more popular in Australia. Finding shoes, wigs, etc for them can be a pain.

      At what point is the exposure too much?

      When the paparazzi start annoying my dolls?

      Do you feel special because you collect these dolls? Would you feel less special if more people were active within it?

      Only two other people know I have BJDs. One hates them, the other is indifferent, so there's no call to feel special.
       
    7. -Do you consider BJD a sort of counter culture?

      -Do you believe that BJD should remain an "exclusive" hobby?

      -Would it matter if it became popular? Like would you just stop collecting?

      -At what point is the exposure too much?

      -Do you feel special because you collect these dolls? Would you feel less special if more people were active within it?


      It really depends on the person. I don't really consider it a counter culture, it's just another 'weird (as people say)' obsession of mine ^^

      I'd like for BJDs to stay more exclusive, because I like being more unique than others..

      I wouldn't be crushed if it became popular, but I don't think I'd like to see BJDs everywhere. as much as I love them, I like them to be a rare item ^^;; I don't think I'd stop collecting them just because they became popular...I'd just go around exclaiming that I was a BJD-o-holic before it came mainstream to try and make myself feel better ><

      Do I feel special? Not really, just different, which I've always loved. I'm not sure I'd feel less special myself, but I think if more people got into the hobby it might take away from the dolls themselves...seeing them everywhere would make them...well, just not the same. I'd be sad...
       
    8. -Do you consider BJD a sort of counter culture? [clarification in post 19]
      No Even though I read the definition I still don't really get the term but in the sense of rebellion I don't think so.
      -Do you believe that BJD should remain an "exclusive" hobby? (I use that term loosely)I would like it to be as in.... well I just hate looking at the customization threads lately and seeing OMG WHAT SOAP DO YOU USE TO CLEAN UR DOLLS, WHAT DOES MSC DO. So uhm in the sense that people arn't completely lazy to look at the STICKIES that are posted right up top and post not so common questions. maybe it's just because my policy is to normally lurk before you post because this board is huge it's been posted before.
      -Would it matter if it became popular? Like would you just stop collecting?
      I wouldn't stop collecting I would just stop coming to the boards/ meet ups unless they're people I know. and like Ceze said I would hate seeing them every where. Especially when they were all the people telling me I was creepy because I collected them. >_<
      -At what point is the exposure too much?
      bad quality, rip off dolls just to jump in on the "fad"
      -Do you feel special because you collect these dolls? Would you feel less special if more people were active within it?
      I hate to admit it but I like having something special. so if they became popular I would feel like another one who just jumped in on the trend -__-;;
       
    9.  
    10. -Do you consider BJD a sort of counter culture? [clarification in post 19]
      Not exactly. I think most of us collect dolls because we are attracted to them because of the aesthetic, not just because it's "different". Though it is pretty cool to be the first one to introduce someone to a BJD ^_^

      -Do you believe that BJD should remain an "exclusive" hobby? (I use that term loosely)
      No. I love meeting new people, and love when people discover BJDs. I enjoy sharing my excitement, and for others to be excited about it too.

      -Would it matter if it became popular? Like would you just stop collecting?
      I definitely would not stop collecting, however certian aspects of the hobby would become increasingly annoying with increasing interest. For example, wait times would increase if BJDs suddenly became the hippest thing on the planet. Companies could charge more because there is higher demand.

      -At what point is the exposure too much?
      When wait times are over 6 months, and as timid mentioned if quality dolls were hard to come by. There are probably other points, just none I can think of at the moment.

      -Do you feel special because you collect these dolls? Would you feel less special if more people were active within it?
      I suppose, but that's because I feel like the dolls themselves are special. They are unique, and personally I don't think there's anything like them. I don't think I would feel differently if more people collected them.
       
    11. -Do you consider BJD a sort of counter culture?

      No. Just a subculture. I'm a MEMBER of the counter culture tho LOL - since the 60s...

      -Do you believe that BJD should remain an "exclusive" hobby?

      Not really. Except I really like that most BJDs are from tiny little companies.

      -Would it matter if it became popular? Like would you just stop collecting?

      I like things that I like. If it got popular I might actually be able to buy stuff down the street instead of ordering it from Korea tho... But again w/the problem that popular stuff gets taken over by corporate (see first question) & I have a HUGE problem w/mass marketing & mega corporations.

      -At what point is the exposure too much?

      When it changes the quality of the dolls, their originality, & their customizability, I'd scream.

      -Do you feel special because you collect these dolls? Would you feel less special if more people were active within it?

      I feel the DOLLS are special, because of what they are. More people being active shouldn't change that (oh, except see above)
       
    12. -Do you consider BJD a sort of counter culture? [clarification in post 19]

      I believe it is counter culture at least in America, then again, a lot of things are considered counter culture here.

      -Do you believe that BJD should remain an "exclusive" hobby? (I use that term loosely)

      I honestly don't think it matters, as long as the dolls still have the same quality. And to anyone who thinks it should be exclusive, just remember that out of all the doll companies and all the customization options for one's doll, each doll is unique, so therefore i don't think it matters, it is not like someone is copying you in every way.

      -Would it matter if it became popular? Like would you just stop collecting?

      No way

      -At what point is the exposure too much?

      Ask me in a few years, so far I can't imagine bjd getting overly popular....

      -Do you feel special because you collect these dolls? Would you feel less special if more people were active within it?

      Maybe a little, but I can' tell if it is just the customization aspect that makes it feel "special"
       
    13. -Do you consider BJD a sort of counter culture?
      Many of the users here are old enough and don't need some contra-hobby to show that they're different, I think. I don't consider it to be a counter hobby.
      -Do you believe that BJD should remain an "exclusive" hobby?
      I'm not really into meetups and the like. But from what I can gather from online communities, there are for example the ones who come from the doll side, who own other dolls besides BJDs. There are also the ones who are a lot into figurines or action figures and may also like asian culture and/or gaming. I don't see how that is exclusive in the first place.
      -Would it matter if it became popular? Like would you just stop collecting?
      I think it's quite popular already. That doesn't make me lose interest at all, though.
      -Do you feel special because you collect these dolls? Would you feel less special if more people were active within it?
      No and no.
       
    14. -Do you consider BJD a sort of counter culture? [clarification in post 19]
      I don't think so exactly. It is a niche hobby, and it does have it's more unusual aspects. All groups do have a culture to them, but it also feels like 'counter culture' is maybe too strong a word, especially when hobbyists differ so much from each other. I'm not sure we all hang together closely enough to use that term. Plus the culture on DoA might be a little different than the culture of a different doll forum too.

      -Do you believe that BJD should remain an "exclusive" hobby? (I use that term loosely)
      I don't see it as an exclusive hobby. It is an expensive hobby which can make it more challenging for some people. However, there's only so much you can drop prices before an unwelcome drop in quality occurs as well. There's not much anyone could do about it anyway, and there is a much wider range of price than there used to be. Besides the money issue, there is nothing stopping anybody who wants to join in from joining in. It's open to everyone who is interested, and many people here aren't financially blessed and simply save for what they want.

      -Would it matter if it became popular? Like would you just stop collecting?
      No, what people do or don't do doesn't stop me from enjoying my dolls.

      -At what point is the exposure too much?
      I don't know, honestly, and don't think it matters. We're more well known than we were before, and the hobby has certainly grown, but it's never going to become mainstream in the way some people fear it will. We're really a small subset of another larger hobby (doll collecting). Plus as I said before, there's no way to make this hobby inexpensive enough to be truly mainstream, and even then plenty of people choose not to collect dolls or do so only very casually.

      -Do you feel special because you collect these dolls? Would you feel less special if more people were active within it?
      Collecting abjds doesn't really affect how I view myself, to be honest. It's been a positive experience for me, but they alone don't make me any more or less special than I was before. Most nondoll people don't really care one way or another about this hobby (most don't even know it exists), so it really doesn't confer any social benefits with the exception of getting to possibly make some new doll friends through the hobby. There are so many more people here than when I first joined that that already happened anyway, lol, and again it doesn't make me feel one way or another about myself.
       
    15. -Do you consider BJD a sort of counter culture?
      No, not really. To me counter culture implies something a bit more heavy than collecting expensive Asian dolls.

      -Do you believe that BJD should remain an "exclusive" hobby? (I use that term loosely)

      Nope! For me, the more people the better. This hobby doesn't define me and I don't view it as some elite club, either. If the desire's there and somehow you can have access to a doll, then kudos!

      -Would it matter if it became popular? Like would you just stop collecting?
      Nah. I can't tell you how exciting it would be to me if more people started collecting and I saw people with dolls out and about in public. I would never stop collecting for a reason like that.

      -At what point is the exposure too much?
      I really don't know. Maybe if they were as common as cell phones or TVs or something. I really can't see that happening, though.

      -Do you feel special because you collect these dolls? Would you feel less special if more people were active within it?
      I feel honored that I'm able to be a part of this hobby. I understand that circumstances don't allow some people to own one of these dolls. In that regard, yeah, I do feel special.
      I suppose some aspect of it would be lost, yes. But I think the excitement of seeing more people involved would override that.
       
    16. I really don't care if something I like is mainstream or counter culture. BJD's are no different. It's not like it would ruin the hobby for me either way. it might get annoying though if people give me s--- for it, either saying I'm only getting them to fit in better(if they become mainstream) or because I'm trying to hard to stand out(if they become counter culture). :|

      I just don't see how anyone can enjoy their hobbies if they're constantly worried about whether or not it will become mainstream or not.

      Heheh, I don't really feel special for having an interest in them now, and there aren't that many owners in my area. But then, most people close to me know that I've collected several different types of dolls over the years. They probably think BJD's are just part of that. Which I guess they are. :lol:
       
    17. -Do you consider BJD a sort of counter culture? [clarification in post 19]
      Given that the definition of counter culture you supplied is about rejection of the dominant culture, I'd have to say, no. What exactly are BJD owners rejecting? Consumerism? No... The political structure? No... Religious ideas? No... The aesthetic common to western dolls? Maybe, but that's hardly a key part of the dominant culture.
      -Do you believe that BJD should remain an "exclusive" hobby? (I use that term loosely)
      No. However, I do believe in the idea of dilution of culture, that a sudden influx of newcomers can disrupt a community because they lack the shared history (even values) of the long-timers. But as long as the new folk buy into what makes this such a great hobby, i.e., valuing the artistry of the people who make and customize these dolls, I'm fine with the hobby attracting more people. So long as there's no whining about the elitism of the longtimers, either.

      -Would it matter if it became popular? Like would you just stop collecting?
      No, but see above.

      -At what point is the exposure too much?
      When the exposure is negative. My local weekly newspaper did a story on Blythe collectors that painted them as super creepy. Knowing the standard of "journalism" for this paper, I have no doubt that they sought out the weirdest people they could find to interview. I wouldn't be happy with that kind of exposure, because it wouldn't be accurate.
      -Do you feel special because you collect these dolls? Would you feel less special if more people were active within it? Not sure how owning something could make me feel special. And I definitely don't understand how someone else owning something makes me less special, unless I am someone who looks at life as a zero-sum game, where for me to win someone else has to lose. Ugh. I don't play that game.
       
    18. -Do you consider BJD a sort of counter culture?

      No, it's just less mainstream culture. All doll collecting is and BJDs are a subsection of that less mainstream hobby.

      -Do you believe that BJD should remain an "exclusive" hobby? (I use that term loosely)

      Not really, but the prices, even of the cheapest dolls available are going to put many people off. I think that unless resin costs plummet or Hasbro/Mattel wade in and start making vinyl BJD wannabes, it won't ever be too mainstream.


      -Would it matter if it became popular? Like would you just stop collecting?

      No, there would just be more people out there recognising what my dolls are. But as very few people even know I collect dolls at all, that wouldn't be too big a worry. That's not because I'm ashamed of my dolls, btw, just that I'm quite private and don't invite many people into my home, and rarely take my dolls outdoors. I work with doll accounts and make art dolls though, so it shouldn't come as such a big surprise.

      When I was a teenager I think I did do a bit of that whole "They are my private band and no-one else is allowed to like their music" type of drama-queening, but I grew out of it. I just like what I like. Hell, I still loved Chihuahuas even when Paris sh*t-For-brains Hilton got one, and then all of her I-don't-even-have-sh*t-for-brains followers got them too!

      -At what point is the exposure too much?

      When I open the curtains and 1 million pair of teeny Volks eyes stare up at me from the street!


      -Do you feel special because you collect these dolls? Would you feel less special if more people were active within it?

      Ha ha, no, I have always known I am a special little snowflake! Seriously, you are in big trouble if material possessions of any kind are what make you feel special.
       
    19. I don`t really care if this hobby would become more popular or not, it wouldn`t affect my wish to collect bjds. I don`t see BJD as counter culture, I do not consider this hobby "exclusive", and for sure, I don`t feel somewhat special just because I own bjds. XD
      But still, I know that there are people think otherwise, for example - I met some bjd-owners, who thought that they are "special".
      Also I heard about "exclusiveness" of BJD rather often, from people who are not into this hobby, because many of them think that the price of these dolls is to high and they couldn`t spend so much money on a doll.
       
    20. A resounding no all around. I'd be ecstatic if BJDs were more mainstream. I think it would make it easier to find items for them, and it would definitely make it easier to explain to people. Who knows, some of those Mattel sculpts might be really nice, and if not the ones we have now would still be there for those that prefer them.