Cracking on other people's dolls where do you stand?

There's always going to be people who like to dish on other people, or other things. After all, look at how well gossip magazines sell at grocery stores-the photos of celebs without makeup always seem popular. Or there's the best/worst dressed lists, and a group in with the lolcats and all of that called "Poorly Dressed."

Nobody is going to come on here and say "OMG yeah I LOVE talking about how utterly horrific a faceup is!" or something like that.

If the idea behind it bothers you, just don't go on any of the websites that might offend you. If you don't want to see your doll on their, or your work, REALLY don't go on there-I've been to some of those sites and seen long-term members who were the nastiest about other people's work totally freak out when one of their pictures were posted.

I don't see it as a hobby, nor do I take those sites seriously. If you're happy with how your doll looks and proud of the work you've done, even if it's not the best in the world, why be so bothered? There are mean people on the internet who will not be like the wonderful people on DoA and just say nice things and see the effort instead of the result. It's just how things are.

 

I think no one has a right to make fun of another person's doll. I see BJD as a great source of creativity and to belittle that... (shakes head). Also many people are extremely invested (emotionally) in their dolls, often making them shells of beloved characters with elaborate and epic backstories. That takes a lot of work!

However everyone has their own opinions, but what's the saying "if you don't have anything nice to say.. don't say anything at all". But calling someone out on a bad faceup I believe is up to the situation and the person at the time. Sometimes criticism concerning faceups makes people improve or a least see what they had been doing wrong. As for the communities that are created for the sole purpose of belittling others is just mean....

 

Personally, I think it behooves people not to behave like jerks, but that's their choice. It isn't necessary to like everything that everybody does with their dolls, and realistically, we all see things we aren't fond of. When that happens, they can just click the back button and think to themselves "ewww!" or decide to share their opinions all over the net. The problem with posting it elsewhere is that the internet isn't private, and there's always the possibility of it getting back and hurting someone (the bjd community isn't that big after all). It's one thing to not be fond of a specific company or style of clothing and saying so, but making fun of someone's specific doll or the work they did is something else entirely.

I dislike wank forums/sites intensely and just stay away from places that allow that behavior.

 

Okay, so I'm going to be a little weird here and come out vaguely in favor.

I'm the current administrator of the oft-alluded-to THAT forum. So obviously I don't have a problem with people speaking ill of other people's dolls, or I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

Here's what I think: Not everyone is going to like everything. There are plenty of things I dislike intensely. And to some degree I have absolutely no problem expressing that dislike. Would I EVER go straight up to a doll owner who hadn't asked for my opinion and tell them their doll was hideous? No. (Heck, even if they did ask my opinion I still wouldn't tell them their doll was hideous unless they were in a context -- like a snark forum -- where they knew that to be an existing risk. That said, I would also not lie and say I liked it if I didn't.) That is mean and uncalled for and it doesn't do any good for anyone. But at the same time, I don't think that expressing my dislike of something in public is wrong.

I honestly see it as a lot like gossip, and I don't really have a problem with gossip. I think it's a perfectly normal human activity and I don't think it hurts anybody unless someone decides to up and actively be a jerk about it. Not everyone will like everything you do, and they don't have to.

I don't feel responsible if someone is so dependent on the opinions of others that the fact that some stranger hates their doll's faceup makes them never want to do a faceup again. If that's the case either they weren't that dedicated to the activity to begin with or they have way bigger problems than my dislike of their doll's faceup.

I also don't understand why people who know they'll be upset if someone were to snark their doll insist on checking snark forums to make sure no one is doing it -- it seems like a fundamentally masochistic activity to me. You'll never know about it if you don't go looking.

How would I feel if someone did it to me? It depends. If some stranger on the internet did it I'd range from mildly irritated to totally indifferent. I know plenty of people don't like my dolls and that's fine with me because I like them very much (and yes, that Bambicrony Sunday I used to have did look very much like a squashed frog. And my taste in dolls runs to ones that look a bit like goldfish.). I find the person who's been running around the Soom website pretending to be me (and making weird, vaguely sexual comments laced with Volks elitism) straight-up amusing, so carry on, whoever you are. My self-worth is not based on internet strangers' opinions of my dolls.

 

This. On DoA you will practically never come across snark, at least towards one's dolls. To actively seek out snark while being someone who dislikes it is ridiculous.
IMHO, there is a place for practically everything on the internet, apart from the illegal. Snark isn't illegal. In siteswhere anything goes, I'd suggest staying away if you're particularly sensitive, for your own sake.

If someone had something disagreeable to say about my dolls and tastes, they are entitled to that opinion - I'm not going to hold it against someone for not liking something I like. It doesn't make them a bad person - internet strangers are only internet strangers afterall. The only instance where I would be offended is if it was a good friend who had been complimentary to my face but insulting behind my back. But that's to do with how friends should behave in regards to honesty - not an issue of depending on others opinions for self worth.

 

Personally I think that the owner reflects on the doll. For example I know a girl who have a doll that I don't like at all, I think that it's to yellowed, chipped face-up, horrible clothes and wig, but the girl is so kind and sweet that her doll turn to the most wonderful doll in the world.
And I know another girl who owns one of my favorite dolls. Ah, he is so beautiful, got expensive clothing and wonderful hair, but the owner is horrible, stuck up and "elitist". And therefore that doll is ugly to me. Not the whole mold, but that particular mold.

So I would not write in a snark comm, especially not just towards the doll, but I love to read about such things, it makes me a little bit more happy with my own dolls. (I know that's lack of self estem.) But if I knew that the owner was kind I would think that the doll was adorable even if he/she was ugly or not.
I would never say anything. If they asked me what I thought I would be honest, I am always honest. But talking behind someones back. No.

 

I frequently rip the piss out of my friends dolls...and my own for that matter... and my friends tooo whilst I'm at it... thats because we are friends though and thats what we do ^_____________^

I would never be openly hostile to a stranger reguarding thier doll.

allthough there have been awkward dollmeet moments when your watching someone try to re-string a doll all backwards and twisted and your wondering if it's polite to offer help and can only sit there making pained expressions to the person next to you as you watch the car crash unfold. O.O

 

Its like Failblog of dolls. There are sites for bad tattoos, poor clothing choices, even Reretsy, which pokes fun at unfortunate listings of things people made and are selling on etsy. Sometimes those things are even sold, for the lols sure, but it wouldn't have been noticed most times without the promotion of the site mocking it. S.Meyers put a lot of effort into her Twilight books, but there's a whole movie made to snark at it. I'm not saying its a good thing or condoning snark/wank sites, but people have every right to express how they feel about the styling of a doll in the privacy of their own forum.

If you don't want to see it, don't go actively seeking it out. Sure members of those places could hit the back button and not ctrl+c, but its a lot easier to just not goggle search these sites and request membership to see if you're doll is being talked about.

 

I personally find it rude, and mean. And it shows more about the ugliness of character that the people making fun of others have than the perceived ugliness of the dolls. Honestly, if somebody has nothing better to do in life than make fun of other people, I really feel sorry for that person.

I don't go to those sites. I ignore them. I have better things to do.

 

I've learned a lot from that one forum in particular and found a damaged head for sale that I'm sure I wouldn't have noticed on my own as I don't browse the MP often. I bought that head, modded it and am very happy with it.
What I learned from "doll snark" is what materials not to use, to have patience while modding, and a lot of hints and tips for face-ups. Although I didn't need examples to take people's advice, for some it helps to see why you should be careful with knifes, acetone, sharpies, lipstick, nailpolish and not sealing before doing a face-up or body blush.

You have rude and you have honest. Sometimes rude people pretend to be honest people, but in the end there will always be unkind people and you have to deal with those too.

 

Exactly. We live in a world that has 4chan, Encyclopedia Dramatica; it's full of people being snarky for the sake of snark. Trolls are called "trolls" for a reason, and if you don't let it bother you, the attention dies down. If it really upsets you, act as indifferently as you can; people do these sorts of things to get a reaction, and the best thing you can do it ignore it and deny them the satisfaction.

This. :3 If they don't like me based on the dolls I have, I'm sure I'll somehow pull myself together again. The dolls we chose, we chose for a reason, and the enjoyment shouldn't be taken away by the opinion based on a person you will likely never meet. And if you do end up meeting them, and they're rude/snarky/whathaveyou, it'll say more about that person than it will about you. So just smile and try to have a good time anyway. In the words of the great Movies in Fifteen Minutes: It'll be okay, pet cactus, it'll be okay.

 

Personally I would rather someone tell me that my doll is ugly and make fun of it than have them tell me it is lovely when they don't like it. My dolls have been made fun of in other places, and hell, I kind of get a laugh out of it.... and more importantly, by reading actual honest feedback I find out what I need to do to change them, and make them better.

I would say, if you don't like snark, don't go looking for it. But also don't delude yourself into thinking that everyone loves your doll just because you do. We would hardly be human if we all adored the same things, and one person's 'beautiful' is often another's 'OH GOD MY EYES' (and I should know- I own at least 3 of 'em....)

 

Yeah, I don't get that either -- if people are, then there's nothing the owner can do about it and it's just going to cause bad feelings. That said, sometimes stuff does get back to people when they don't go looking for it -- a friend or acquaintance will point it out, that does happen too. Comparing snark forums to gossip is probably fairly accurate, and it's true people do have a tendency to gossip. However, just like regular gossip, it can get back to people, and on the internet you have a permanent record of what was said about whom.

At least you're consistent Some people will always handle stuff like this better than others. However, when it's very personal comments about things they did and dolls they specifically own (not talking about a doll company in general), I don't blame people for being upset -- those are personal attacks and ridicule. If you're ripping only on those in the snark community, well, they asked for it by being there, but other people didn't ask for that kind of attention. It's one thing to realistically know that not everyone will like your doll or the things you do with it, but it's another to see the specifics of that dislike typed out and plastered around the net. There are some people on the planet that need to grow thicker skins, but sometimes people are justified in being upset. Ultimately people can do and say what they want to, so it's a moot point, and my advice would always be don't go looking for it if it bothers you. However, the idea that stuff is never going to get back or that people shouldn't feel hurt by it is as unrealistic as believing everyone will love your doll.

 

I like my dolls just the way they are, and if someone else doesn't for whatever reason then that's their own oppinion. People have the right of free speech, and thusly if someone tells me my doll looks like the back end of a bus then they're welcome to carry on thinking that or even voicing it if they fancy. It's not particularly pleasant having one of your dolls made fun of, but should I really give a monkeys as to what they think? If it's my doll and I love him/her/it to bits, then I'll just sit back and agree to disagree. Just as they are welcome to their oppinion, I am welcome to have mine.

Snark for the sake of it, without any constructive outcome I do tend to find a little pointless. If someone decided to write a nice long PM or email to me, or even write a nice long post on a dolly gossip forum -just- to troll/complain about/make fun of my dolls, I'd reason that the person doing so probably doesn't have anything constructive to do with their time..unless the highlight of their day is gossping about how bad a doll looks. Again, it's all down to oppinions. If someone likes making fun of other people's dolls and finds this a constructive use of their time, then that's what they'll do.

 

I'll be a voice of dissent too. One person said, "I think no one has a right to make fun of another person's doll." I disagree. I think people should have the right to voice any opinion they want.

I *DO* think it's important to separate the "real" from the "fake". Saying you think someone's doll is ugly is fine. Saying that the person is ugly it rude. Saying that the person should go die is unacceptable. ALL of those things are unacceptable on DOA, because it's accepted by the community members that we are a *positive* community.

And of course, the all-important question - what if it happened to me? Well, it HAS happened to me in other fandoms, and I generally am bewildered (because it always catches me off guard) and amused. On a rare occasion someone will say something that insults me, but it generally comes from a different source than Wanky places.

And I'll paraphrase chibaraki a bit: My self-worth is not based on strangers' opinions of me. Byzantine also brought up a good point...I am WAY more critical of myself than anyone could EVER be.

People who up-turn their noses and say they "feel sorry for me" make me laugh, because they're just displaying their own flaws.

 

i could never make fun of someones doll. i find them all lovely. yes, there are some i don't like, but not because they're ugly or anything. if someone makes fun of my doll, that's their opinion and i don't care.

 

I'm going to break this down to a very simple premise. If you are not willing to accept criticism of your dolls, both constructive and otherwise, then don't post pictures of them to a public forum. If your doll and the personal vision they represent are so precious to you that you can't accept someone else having a negative opinion about them, then don't share.

If you do choose to share, then you are accepting the responsibility for that choice.

In other words, deal with it.