Cultural differences between buyers and doll companies

i investigted and this is want USPS as to say:

What Items is the Postal Service™ liable for? Can I file a Claim on an Uninsured Mail Item?

The United States Postal Service® liability is restricted to loss or damage claims for the following items: Registered First Class Mail International, Registered Priority Mail International flat rate envelope, and Insured Priority Mail International variable weight or flat rate box items that begin with CA-CC and CE-CZ (from the customs declaration form) , Collect On Delivery (C.O.D.) and Express Mail® service items.

Additionally, the liability amount is limited to no more than the insurance value stated and paid for at the time that the item was mailed.

The United States Postal Service® is now legally authorized to compensate for loss or damage of uninsured items for Registered First Class Mail International, Registered Priority Mail International flat rate envelope, and Insured Priority Mail International variable weight or flat rate box items that begin with CA-CC and CE-CZ (from the customs declaration form) items..

Note: To process and deliver the huge daily volume of mail in a timely manner, we use high-speed automated mail processing equipment; occasionally this equipment malfunctions causing damage to a few pieces of mail. The Postal Service™ is not held liable for damages occurred during the processing or handling of mail matter under Title 28, Section 2680(b) of the U.S. Code, except for the items listed above.

 

I don't think the problem is Cultural, per se. I've never had anything but joy when dealing with traditional shops, or even smaller shops in and around Asia. This is a problem with Capitalism, and by extension the culture of capitalism.

When selling things stops being providing goods of quality/ providing a service and becomes a cut-all-costs money-making venture, then it is a problem. I'm not saying that it has necessarily become a problem with these doll companies, but as has been suggested above, the sheer quantity they're having to deal with simply means that some of these companies are quite possibly biting off more than they can chew.

 

Actually, I would have to disagree with you. If dolls are yellowing or changing color say 6 months or longer down the line, I can understand a company not necessarily being held responsible, however, in the recent case of a company whose dolls started changing color within a month of their being received and said dolls were not even in direct sunlight, I think the company should be responsible for testing these colors a little more before releasing them for sale.

 

Rkold:

I completely second this, and it's how I felt when the issue with the colored elves first came to the forefront. Most of us who have been in the hobby for any length of time understand the issues with resin and yellowing or lightfastness. The issue with the Bambicrony elves was not that the resin yellowed, it was that it noticeably changed within weeks in some cases, even in dolls that were kept out of sunlight entirely. IMO, the techniques Bambicrony used to make the multi-colored elves were not anywhere near perfected enough to offer the dolls for sale. When you think about how immediately everyone jumped to order the blue elves (I would have if I had had the extra $$ at the time!), there is obviously a huge interest in differently colored dolls. With interest so high, it's telling that no other company has tried to release blue or green bjds. Resin is a tough medium. Yes, we know that there are going to be changes in color eventually, but to me, less than month is unacceptable when the unusual color of the doll was a primary selling point (and cause for a higher price). I could have even given them slack for this if the blue elves had been a limited quantity but regularly priced item. That would have supported the "experimental" concept more as well.
EDITED TO ADD: I'll add that many of those who bought the elves have expressed that they don't mind the color change, in some cases even saying they like the new color better. I think that's wonderful and it's great that they're happy, but it doesn't change that those were unhappy had a valid reason to question Bambicrony (IMO ).

 

Just a generality, but some Asian business people seem to be touchy about the quality of their item being questioned. I have also found that language syntax and meanings can translate strangely unless the reader is truly familiar with colloquial English.

Personally, I try to keep my sentences short, use words with single meanings, and I often praise something before addressing the problem.


A couple of interesting quotes from a busness etiquette guide, South Korea section:

"Korea is a Confucian society based on respect for elders and the subservience of females. Unfortunately, it is therefore necessary for all foreigners to expect to encounter gender and age discrimination."

"Under no circumstances should you resort to scolding or yelling in Korea. The concept of "face" is just as important in Korea as it is in Japan or China. Try to be as diplomatic as you can in resolving conflict, no matter how infuriated you may feel."

And regarding Face (from China section)

"It is essential to understand the concept of "face" when conducting business in China. Chinese people regard the respect of their peers and colleagues as a matter of the utmost importance. Conversely, to be humiliated or embarrassed in public is regarded with great shame."

"This respect or status is regarded as "face." It is very easy for a Chinese person to "gain" or "lose" face and foreigners conducting business in China must remain aware of the public image of the people they deal with."

"Difficult situations must be handled delicately and without anger. To shout at a Chinese person in public, to reprimand them in front of their peers or to raise one's voice when exasperated will cause both parties to lose face and disrupt the negotiating process.

Confrontations that place a Chinese person on the spot should be avoided and resolved quietly."

 

My main input on this is that companies, when a certain percent of their profit comes from a country whose predominant language is not their own, needs to hire a fluent translator to deal with patrons from other countries. I am sick to death of having to use rudimentary vocabulary when I'm trying to describe, in specifics, exactly how I want my doll's face to look. I try to accommodate people who speak other languages at my job, and we only get a few a year who speak nearly no English- but I'll still do my best to use my college-level French and basic Japanese to get them the information that they need.

As far as taking responsibility for broken parts, I believe that companies should address concerns brought up by customers seriously and fix whatever they may have done wrong. In my experience/knowledge of Asian cultures (Japan in particular), they tend to be very polite and concerned with the satisfaction of their customers. Being a "reluctant" company is unacceptable and unprofessional.

 

Hi, all. Just noticed this thread. I'd just like to add my thoughts. I would like to point out that these are not a general Korean point of view (seeing that there are very few Koreans here at DOA and that there might be misconceptions), but my personal thoughts only.

I spent a couple of years of my childhood in the States, several years of my adulthood in Europe, but most of my life here in Korea. I can understand where there can be frustration and misunderstanding, and how there really is no 'right' nor 'wrong', but what is true is, as someone said above (I forgot to how to do the quote thing) "I understand completely that there are huge cultural differences at play when buying dolls from Asia but (there just had to be a but, you knew it was coming did'nt you?)......there is absolutely no excuse for poor customer service or shoddy goods."
I don't think there is a culture where that is acceptable. There might be differences in how to complain about it, and how the complaint might be received and dealt with, but the fact remains that bad quality is bad quality. And bad quality is something to be pointed out and fixed, because it will both benefit the company and the buyer in the end.

There is something that I would like to point out, however. Most of the Korean doll "companies" are NOT "companies". They are mostly individual doll artists who happened to find a large fan base and started to grow from there. They are registered as companies because it's the only way to be able to handle international payment. I can't think of a Korean doll company that has more than 10 full-time employees. (Most of them, are just 3 people.) So most of them are not, as someone else mentioned above, 'business people'.

Although they have become businesses, and I know that in the Western mind if you are a business you should act like one, but most of the approach here towards dolls are still based on the 'art' factor. I don't think you ask an artist how a certain painting (or sculpture) might look in 10 years time, whereas for electronics you might. The fact that these dolls are indeed 'products' haven't been sunk in totally in the mentality yet.

There's also the fact that sometimes there are things that are taken for granted here that have to be explained in other cultures, but which the dollmakers have no idea until something happens or someone points them out. Color fading, for example. "Yellowing" of the resin is something that the doll community here take as inevitable fact. Some dolls fade more readily than others. Dollmakers who have been it for a while may be able to predict this in advance and say 'if you are oversensitive about this, please consider thoroughly before purchase' but as most of the makers that are selling now are fairly new they would not be able to know either, and when this happens people would tell the company 'I am so disappointed that blah blah blah is there a way that I can prevent it blah blah blah' but since it wasn't a deliberate falsehood on the company's part, people just let their voices be heard and if it really really bothers them they just don't purchase from them in the future. They do post about the experience in related communities, but it's mostly in the vein of 'please note that so-and-so company's resin fades quickly' without any accusation nor anger towards the company itself, especially since it's a public post. (In the western world, I think that the tendency is if you don't get your money's worth you get a lawyer and start suing.)

If problems simply can't be ignored, because of the magnitude of it, it's better to discuss it in private with the company only. (Have you guys noticed that ALL Korean doll company boards and most personal site BBS boards have the auto 'private' setting?)

Someone already mentioned that "face" is taken into consideration more than Western cultures. It's a very close-knit society. They say it's 1.3 degrees of separation here in Korea. You can't go around "insulting" people because their sister-in-law might be related to you, or their mother went to the same high school as yours. Ridiculous reasons, perhaps, in other cultures, but here it is very relevant.

Other stuff : Most doll companies do not have the means to hire full-time "fluent" translators. (Bloody expensive.) And it's hard to find translators who are fluent not only in the languages required, but in 'doll-speak' as well.

EMS. I find it extreeeeeeeemely frustrating when sending things to my sister in the States. The reason why shipping costs are so expensive here is that all parcels sent overseas by plane are sent ONLY by EMS, and they MUST be ensured. What I find annoying is that we can track the package to the hour until the package arrives at its destination. It usually takes 2 days, 3 days maximum for a package from Korea to arrive at the States. Then that package lies for 5 days who-knows-where within the States before the recipient gets it. Sorry to you Americans, but I have no faith in the American Mail System. They are so damn slow. (I'm sure that this isn't all the time and that I'm probably making a hasty generalization, but after 6 years of the same thing you'd lose faith, too.)

This has been a ridiculously long post. I hope I was being coherent. I would like to end by saying once again that bad quality is bad quality no matter what, and if it's not an issue about service/attitude/language misunderstandings, it should be addressed and dealt with.

Cheers. Happy weekend.

 

Thank you for posting this! Actually, it was really interesting and enlightening, esp. when mentioning that some of these "companies" are more like a couple of friends getting together to sell stuff. Looking at it in the same way that you'd look at buying artwork also helps to put things into perspective.

 

Before I say anything else, I want to thank you for giving us a really good insight into how the korean doll "companies" operate. We've needed that for a very long time now and it answers a lot of things that I've always wondered about!

Now, about the EMS part: You have to understand that any package coming into the country is going to go through Customs. Just like with any other country out there, it will get stopped by Customs. In the US, there are only a handful of Customs offices that I know of. New York City, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Seattle and Miami are the only ones I've heard of. I'm not sure how many provinces/states there are in South Korea but the US is pretty big, with 50 states. The longest I have had to wait on something sitting at customs was 3 days. I know with Canada, it can take longer than that.

 

Good business ethic is universal. Making and selling defective merchandice is bad no matter where you're from.

However, being that BJD in particular are hand made, some flaws should be expected. Obviously nothing that mars the product functionality or overtly disrupts the esthetic is acceptible .

To be angry because one ear is a few mm higher or that the inside of the head isn't perfectly smooth - the kind of nit picking I have seen burgeoning through the community is horrifying.

 

It is. And needless whinging about things like that tends to make the artist deaf to complaints of a real and serious nature.

"Oh no its those Americans complaining again..."

 

I dunno if this has been said, but I think the main thing is our perceptions of the difference between "human error" and actual "damages". I get the sense that Asians are more accepting of "human errors" and consider it part of the wholistic beauty of the doll. Americans see "human error" and think of it as "damage" because we are trained to expect perfection from everything we buy (consequence of living in a capitalistic, "dog eat dog" society). Of course both our cultures frown upon "damages"; it's bad to receive an item that turns out to be valued at less than what we paid for. But I appreciate the "human errors"; they make the dolls feel more like they were specially crafted by a human being rather than a cold machine.

 

That and the mass produced products that Americans are used to. The mass production we have been engaged in since the industrial revolution does churn out goods that are pretty uniform (you don't see the hand of the craftsman so to speak), but the uniqueness and overall quality is often less. When we buy dolls from these small companies that are hands on in making them, we might see some small imperfections, because they were made by humans instead of machines. However, the bjds have more care put into their making and it shows in their overall quality.

 

I only ever had to get a replacement part from a company once, and I got it with no trouble.

I agree with many people here about what the issue is. The cultural issue is not "they are Asian, they won't replace it." It's that when you send an insulting and angry e-mail to someone who is not used to this level of rudeness, it's not going to get a great response.

Perhaps when the company recieves an angry, insulting e-mail demanding a replacement they feel, why should I bother with this customer.

On the other hand, I've gotten my way alot with this companies because of my experience with Chinese and Korean schoolfriends. I know how to get the best response.

If anyone is looking for a solution to the issue of companies being reluctant to help out customers who recieve a damaged product, read Carolyn.s' post above! Also, read the anouncements on the company's sites which have bad news. You'll notice that they contain some polite 'small talk' before mentioning the bad news. Use this in your e-mails too.

In the end all companies in different countries are the same, they want to make money. And, as bekka_alice pointed out, politeness gets you a long way in western culture as well as eastern culture, because you are dealing with a human being, not an entire company in phone calls and e-mails.

There's the question of whether we should make a adjustments for Eastern countries. I think that the adjustments to be made are relevent over here too. Learning to be polite and respectful when asking for what you want is a great lesson, that's being lost in my country due to American influence. I don't blame the American people for this attitude, since I can see clearly how the government promotes a "I'll get what I want and I'll get it now" attitude.

I've always been brought up to say please and thank you to waiters and leave a tip. I was taught them you get less spit in your food this way. It's a simple comparison but I think it's kinda relevent. When I bought a doll from Orientdoll I gave them a large tip and my doll was sent the same day.

 

In the case I am thinking of, it was not a matter of 10 years time or even 1 year. Many people talked about uneven fading and lightfastness problems that occurred within 1 month. I understand these companies are tiny or just a group of artists, however they made their models and released pictures around 1 month before the sale.

I personally think the company ought to have just politely warned that the color could fade. People still would have bought the dolls, but I do think they ought to have been warned. I don't think it is a "cultural" issue, to me it just comes off as inexperience.

As for EMS, I generally think it is wonderful, fast and very safe. If an item is sent from Korea or Japan via EMS I generally receive it 2-3 days later.

My only complaint is that the rates companies in Korea charge seem very random. I don't really know why it was $60 to ship my MNF and event head from Luts in Korea but only $32 to ship my BlueFairy Olive from MinoruWorld also in Korea or $36 to ship 4 wigs from LeekeWorld in Korea. All 3 were EMS, all 3 companies are in Korea.

 

The exchange rate fluctuates quite frequently and sometimes drastically and I find that international pricing has become quite the mind-boggler as a result. The dollmakers have to find a price that they can maintain without having to change it in accordance with the exchange rate, especially if it's a long running item. The US$ keeps dropping in value where Paypal rates keep getting higher and the Korean banks also have a transfer fee so it becomes quite the hassle.

As for shipping fees, sometimes certain dollmakers will apply the exchange rates and others don't. And there's also EMS rates that are rather wonky here. Up to 1.5 kg it's a certain fee and then it doubles for the next 1.5 kg or so. So if your package weighs 1.55 kg, for example, you'd be paying the same rate as sending off a package that weighs 3 kg.

I think Korea has the most expensive international shipping fees. Which is why not a lot of handmade shops sell things overseas; sometimes the shipping rates cost more than the outfit itself.

Didn't know about custom offices only being in the major cities in the US. (Thanks to spriteabove.) I had a misconception that local mail would be faster than international mail, especially if it's such a big country like the US, where the scale of things seem to be so much bigger.

As for the fading issues, I was mentioning it on a general note, but agree that the one constantly being brought up in question was a more 'trial and error' thing, and how that is being followed up will decide people's opinions.

I really appreciate the maturity of DOA members and this thread. Wish that I had been more active earlier.

 

I think the reason we get so worked up about lack of communication and wondering if and when our product will ship, and will it be intact when it arrives, is largely because of the price of the items.

I'm not saying BJD are overpriced, I understand the workmanship that goes into them - but many of them are $1000 or more - and that is a huge amount of money. And a huge amount of money to send off to a foreign country on faith that it will all work out in the end. The wait times are long, which is fine, except that they often exceed the paypal "protection" period. And I know filing with paypal is serious, and I wouldn't want to do that to a legitimate business just because the wait is long and I don't want to risk losing my money. (And yes, I know that a credit card will protect you longer than paypal.)

Anyway - if someone receives a damaged product and the company won't do anything, it is awfully harsh to just have to be content with being out $1000.

Fortunately the two times I had issues, the companies did fix the problems for me without it costing me extra.

I bought a Williams from Volks USA and he arrived with one finger snapped off. I was really dismayed, as he cost nearly $1000, and I was afraid I'd just be out of luck. But they had me send the hand back to them, and then they mailed me a new one.

I recieved a Soah directly from Elfdoll with a chipped leg and a foot detached from the screw in the leg (they have an odd foot set up). I emailed and got no response, and then someone suggested a post on their Q&A. I posted a photo and explained the situation - and they had me send the doll to their US agent in California, and they shipped me a new one AND reimbursed my shipping cost. Which was great. In this case, once I figured out the best way to get a response (email was not it), it was resolved relatively quickly.

In both cases, the company made good on a product that arrived damaged, and as a result, I've happily bought from them again, knowing that I wouldn't be out the money if something happened.

However, I have seen cases where people have gotten items that had damaged resin (more in the vein of severe discoloration than breakage) and been told that that's just the way the item is.

So, your mileage may vary.

I think being rude is never the way to get someone to help you, whether you're dealing with Americans or foreign companies. What's that saying about catching more flies with honey than vinegar? It almost always pays to be nice about things first.

 

I think good customer service is important to every individual and every effort should be made to ensure the customer is satisfied. There will of course be times when a company cannot help further if a customer is being unreasonable. I personally have never had any trouble with my ball jointed doll purchases but if I had ie the item had arrived flawed or damaged then I would have expected it to be replaced. With regards to yellowing if that is something that the resin does naturally over time it would be hard to find a fix for that.

 

I was really impressed with the reply by Angmasuzy

This is an excellent post with so much wonderful (and true!) information.

As someone who lived in Japan for many years and worked in a Japanese-owned company, perhaps I can give a bit of information too.

As far as YJ sellers not wanting to sell internationally, I think the main reason is they are scared. They might not have a lot of experience talking with a foreigner, or they might be nervous about their ability to write in English. By dealing with a foreigner, they might lose face if they can't communicate effectively. While I lived there, a great percentage of the people were afraid to talk to me or showed a lot of nervousness, even when speaking in their own language. So I wouldn't take it personally or look at it as "elitism." They just don't want to make a mistake and have everyone feel bad about it. By selling to someone in their own country, they can fall into the acceptable routine and expectations. What you say and what you do is already known ahead of time.

Something I learned in Japan is that the artist is held in higher esteem than the businessperson. Artists who have their own companies, as Angmasuzy says, are doing so only for the formality of being able to make transactions. So in our eyes, they have become businesspeople.. but in their eyes they have not at all. Some of the artists have helpers who are able to work on customer service. Sometimes they do not, and when you email there will be a person who is doing their best with a computer translator and a dictionary. Imagine if you were forced to email them in Korean or Japanese to place your order. Scary, huh?

I think the term that should be killed is "factory faceup." I don't know any artist-company which has a "factory." Unless you consider the dining room table "the factory."

One of my favorite memories.... I received a box of dolls from an artist once, and when I opened the box and the cooped-up air rushed out... I smelled her freshly cooked dinner. That really brought it home to me, that we are receiving some very personal works of art, often made in the homes of their creators.
(A subnote: I did give everything a check, and none of the dolls or boxes smelled like the dinner^^ do not worry).

Another thing that might be helpful to know is that in Japan and Korea, things are made in very small quantities. I believe this is due to the fact that housing and rooms are very small there. Having a "warehouse" would be an extremely expensive proposition. So things are made as they are ordered generally, and there is no "stock on hand" to speak of.. and often there are not any spare parts unless they are ordered. So if something is broken, the extra part will have to be made up specially. Takes time.

I think in the case of flaws and things not working out as planned.. they are all doing their best with what they have at the time. When there are problems, they do find out about it from their buyers in Asia also... and make plans to improve things the next time around. Unlike the traditional Asian dolls with traditional materials (go-fun and all that), they are all working with materials which are often quite temperamental given the weather conditions in Asia. Humidity, high heat and rain make things very difficult when casting and painting dolls. You can't imagine how many times a whole doll must be thrown away because of the imperfections caused by weather and other problems. And unlike many western countries, central heating and air conditioning might not be available. In Japan I lived in a modern condominium with a small airconditioner and no central heating. I had a portable heater in the winters which i had to fill with kerosene.

If I could leave you with one thing, it would be that these are very special people who make dolls from the heart. They want to touch your heart with their work, and it means a great deal to them if you find meaning in their work. Sending their dolls overseas is a little scary to them too... just as it is scary for you to wait for your doll to arrive. One of my artists even calls the dolls "her kids." It's that pesonal. I think it's really nice that so many owners here take time to learn about the origins of their dolls, and really appreciate the efforts of the artists. I want you to know they do appreciate your love and understanding.

Catrina