"Discontinued item" A sellers foolishness.

Have a look at the MiniFee pages on the Fairyland web site. There are 28 doll variations presented. 27 of them are out of stock or discontinued. You can have a MiniFee if you want Celine. That's it. No alternatives. You at least have a choice from 13 of the 26 MiniFee wigs. You can pic from 7 unpopular outfits (hat, bathrobes etc.) of the 43 items listed, and 7 of the 14 sets of shoes.

I do not care how much anyone argues or makes excuses for them. That is a disgraceful presentation. It says to the buyer "Minifee is dead. Go look somewhere else."

 

I hate to nitpick, but I see 3 dolls that aren't sold out.

And uh...please correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't many of them still available through the a la carte?
It says 1-9, 14, and 17 are unavailable due to maintenance until autumn 2015, but at least they tell you when they'll be back?

To be fair it would be nice if they said so on the sold out item page, I suppose. (If they have on the sold out bits I didn't see it since I didn't bother to click them.)
As would be a definition of a la carte but now I'm being nitpicky again. But thanks to that system I'd say the problem lies with the site layout rather than item availability.
But hey at least they announced it in the news section about the heads sometime last year when it happened. Yay for information.

 

And that would be another failure on their part. I was not even aware that Minifee was available via the a la carte. I've only just come back into the hobby after 8 years away, so in a way, I'm like a noob. Their current sites need a degree to navigate. (and I did buy Celine - because she happened to be the doll I wanted)

 

You obviously have no idea how dolls are made.

You are making several large and false assumptions.

Molds do not last that long, unless you are presuming that every cast is perfect. That is so far from the truth and so presumptuous. You also presume that a mold life is based only on when you can cast, not cast good quality casts.

When you make dolls then you can declare our struggles as "non-issues" and say people "throw money at" us.

It's lack of capital that makes it hard to have a large product library. Every SKU active costs.

If you don't like it, go collect Pullips. Because you obviously are finding no charm in having an artist made item. Edit: acknowledging that this comment is a going a bit far.

 

Lets keep the personal attacks to a minimum. It does nothing to address the problems we are trying to discuss.

 

True. A friend of mine just received two limited edition Soom dolls; by their certificate numbers, they are the 6th and 11th cast sold from that mold (though probably not the 6th and 11th made, as there will have been test casts and miscasts and such). You can tell how quickly molds start to decrease in quality just by looking at them -- the 'older' one has almost no seam lines, while the 'younger' one (with a certificate number that is only 5 up from the 'older' one) has decent, but definitely noticable seam lines.
My own IMPLDoll Xavier, which I ordered after the sculpt had been around for a while, had a thin 'skin' of resin closing up the hook opening on his gun hand that I had to remove before I was able to use it. My dad, who used to collect model vehicles when he was younger, told me that that's quite common for parts cast from older molds.
So yeah, molds do seem to have a very limited lifespan.

 

You're right, sorry.

Just got riled up because her argument really reminded me of the "companies are mean so I deserve my recasts" argument I keep hearing.

I feel like recently people are deliberately constructing reasons to accuse companies of being unfair to buyers, which may not be what she is doing but she is displaying a large level of entitlement, which is why it sounds deliberate.

Surviving as a doll company is tough, why on earth would they deliberately alienate buyers? It's such a weird argument to make in seriousness.

 

Perhaps some companies keep sold out items on their sites as a kind of gallery or archive showcasing their works? Other artists and doll companies also do this, but often they are placed in separate sections on the site. I personally like it since this offers me a wider variety of things to look at and often I enjoy looking as much as getting.

As for discontinue stuff, one possible reason is to stay one step ahead of the recasters. If the recasters are competing with the legit companies on the older dolls and people are buying them, then new dolls will leave the recasters behind for at least a little while, especially the fullsets. Just a thought.

 

I do understand it from an artist perspective. I personally already get discouraged when I have to make an item a second time, so if it's just a small shop or one artist doing all the work, I get the limiteds and the desire to make new models.

 

Personally I want to be able to look at items that used to exist but are sold out. However, I would like to be able to choose to just look at "in stock" or "currently out of stock but WILL be back soon" items when I look in the stores and then have an "archive" of "these are the awesome items which are sold out and won't come back". In my opinion archives of sold out items are good since it gives an idea of what has been available so you can search for said items second hand. I would prefer not to have the "archive" all over the place so to speak but I will still buy and look through the pages even if the items are all in the same place

 

Artist dolls are "run" by artist.

Volks, SOOM, Fairyland, etc. are run by business people who employ artist.

There's a difference.

I think this topic brings A LOT of hot button topic to the fore front. Kudos.

I would say that it is a brilliant business practice.

Why would you have to makes thousands of dolls for half the price when you can make a few hundred at double the price.

It is we as a community who have long accepted, and defended, this practice.

I am NOT speaking of artist dolls whose production relies solely on the sculpted to handle everything from inception to reality.

The price HAS to be higher to even come close to producing a profit worth the time. In some, if not many instances, artist dolls may just break them even.

Larger companies know how it works...it works amazing for them.

Keep production runs small to build up demand to increase price.

This is so common place...As a retail manager I train hundreds of associates in how to build ADT (Average Dollar per Transaction). It's better to have 10 customers spend $75.00 = $750.00 in sales vs. 20 customers spending $30.00 = $600.00 in sales.
You created MORE work by trying to hustle more people than if you provide a better experience for fewer.

Doll companies ARE a business. Period. They are there to make money.
If they were just breaking even they would not grow or offer as many products.
The whole "sold out" is yet another business tactic. It creates and artificial demand and interest, I.e. "OMGOSH this stuff is SO popular everything is sold out. You are either "I have to keep checking back" ( and you magically find a WAY more expensive item (a doll) or you "I'm gonna get this cause it's obviously so popular".

You can argue all you want about "that's not how it is" lol

We, as a community, continual justify the BUSINESS practices of these companies.

they do a great job of making you feel you are buying something magical and special. You're NOT. It's just a hunk of resin. The BUYER is what makes them special.

There is artistry in the sculpting, face-ups, clothing design. That being said if you're buying from a larger doll company you are paying for a PRODUCT.
The BEST practice they have...fostering an environment where people are happy to pay for a doll believing it to be "rare and special".

@babytarragon

I do not mean to dismiss, what must be, so much hard-work.Especially as an individual who IS providing an experience for others and, I'm sure yourself.

I think, as I stated above, that it's not about artist dolls but the larger doll companies.

I understand you reasoning on assumptions. However, and I say this with all respect, are you not making an assumption on individuals choices. Frankly, "I deserve" or "I am entitled to" is a blanket statement. There are those that choose to want a doll but not pay the higher price. It's not a sense of entitlement but a choice of how to/not spend ones money.

I know this may be a justification; however, I've never been one to dictate how others spend their money or the choices they make. I simply as a buyer support with my wallet, as I'm sure you do.

 

I guess it's because the companies are small and they know shit about how to be a business. They don't have people who have studied economics in there. Limiting the production makes only sense if it's a long term thing; like, releasing 10 dolls of each mold per year. However they try to gain max profit so they release 30 of one single mold one single time.

This obviously benefits the secondhand market, because once the period has passed if there's just one secondhand seller they got monopoly of that doll and can ask whatever price they want to, while if people knew there'd be a limited release again next year their price would be limited to what the company asks for. However, it makes the company lose sales and need to come with new molds all the time. That's how we end with the strategies used by Soom and stuff like that.

 

I don't know where this idea comes from that BJD companies are making huge profits from the dolls. The process is expensive-- if you've ever tried to make a BJD, you know that. And because of the nature of the manufacturing process, (basically everything is hand made), the cost per doll does not go down much when you make greater numbers. It's meaningless to compare a handmade collectible with a mass-produced commodity. Different method, different market.

Which brings up the issue of demand. BJD collecting is a small niche market. If BJD companies were making thousands of a single sculpt, would they sell before the resin died of old age? I doubt it. BJD collectors like novelty and creativity. "Newproductitis" is driven by the collectors even more than the artists.

 

I agree with the frustration of going through page after page after page of stuff listed as sold out to finally find 6 things that are available on a site (and usually not at all what you wanted *sigh*). I'm not a web designer by any stretch of the imagination but I would assume that it wouldn't be that difficult to have a filter button or to create a separate archive area of the site for the stuff that is sold out. That simple thing would make many sites so much easier to navigate for us buyers.

As for truly discontinued items (or things from companies no longer existing), if you're patient (and with a dash of luck) you can find said items second-hand. True, it might take a looong time before you get what you want, but it can happen. There are exceptions, such as when the original numbers of the item were very low (say... 10 or less), but even those items come up on the second-hand market at times. I can recall recently seeing a doll in the MP here that was limited to 10 dolls, so even the quite rare stuff pops up sometimes.

Unless you're asking the artist/company, you'll likely never know why something was discontinued. And honestly, they don't owe anyone a reason for why they're stopping production of something. I can certainly see why a small artist company would discontinue a line after a while so that they could go off in new directions with new ideas. I would certainly hope they'd keep the masters and maybe someday bring back a sculpt(s) in a limited anniversary release or something.

 

It's pedaled by the recast community that FL and Soom are rich corporations who sit back and laugh at the foolish customers. Lessons the guilt of stealing from them if you make them out to be greedy.

 

Funny,considering that the staff at Soom is about 40 people,including the owners.Fairyland is probably not much bigger.
They are very,very successful SMALL "companies"not mega corporations; they are hardly much bigger than the "artist" maker/companies.

There is more than one successful business model to be followed;one size does NOT fit all.

 

LOL, what? This topic seems out of touch with BJD collecting culture entirely. I don't see anything wrong with a company showing off their older merchandise, if anything it's like keeping a portfolio of past works. Companies are well aware that many collectors like to feel like their doll is in some way limited or special, in many ways (*cough*Soom) running unique limiteds drives up sales. So many people will have a wish list of ten dolls, and the one they're buying now is invariably the one they can't get in a month. Standards get put on the list for "later."

You also need to keep in mind that a lot of those "larger doll companies" are just ten guys in a warehouse room. They have snazzy websites, but they aren't Mattel. You can't apply the same business model to a company that specially produces art dolls to order as you do other products -- as hobbywhelmed pointed out, they can't even really keep things in stock because of the nature of resin. Nobody wants to buy a "brand new" doll and find it's already yellowed.

And not all companies "employ" artists in the way you're implying. Fairyland seems to all intents and purpose be a business that is controlled by the terms set by Cerberus Project, the artist team. Just like LUTS and (I think it was) Dollmore sold their dolls for them before.

It's okay to be frustrated when you fall in love with an old limited you'll have to work for on the second hand market, but you lose me when you then insist that companies are just doing things wrong. Obviously their perspective on this is different. If it bothers you that much, go talk to some of them about it. Most of them have very nice reps who would be happy to explain where they're coming from on this.

 

I actually like the fact that companies keep old pages up so I can see and admire what they made.
I'm sure companies would love to stock their items when they have them. I know Korean companies will only allow you to put items into the cart when it is in stock...which is a safe practice. As opposed to Chinese companies who let you order stuff...and then make you wait while they make it. Promise of the World, anyone?