Do you believe that some owners mistreat their dolls?

I have to say that yes I have seen people mistreat their dolls. ..

I mean its their right to d so as its their doll but still it hurts. The thing that pisses me off is when they turn around to resell them and say that their doll is in good or great condition.

I have seen people in public who carry dolls around half hanging out of bags arms out all over the place the head slumped off to the side what not and I just want to grab them and save them...

Its peoples business what they do with what they own but I take a stand at when they want to resell them for what they bought them for after all the abuse has been inflicted.

 

I think once you've bought a doll, you're free to do whatever you like with it - whether that's keeping it in a glass case and handling it only when wearing gloves, or carting it around in your handbag and getting it chipped and yellowed. A doll isn't, IMO, something you deserve or don't deserve - it's a financial transaction. Put dollars in - get a doll out!

 

For me, the line is drawn when it comes to customising, and the artistic side of things.

If I see a doll with messed up hair, chipped body blushing from playwear, a chip or two, or smudges... to me, that's just a well-loved doll. It won't even cross my mind to think that it is an 'abused' doll, or that their owner doesn't respect them or care for them. If anything, it can be quite endearing, like seeing a child with a beaten up old teddy bear.

On the other hand, seeing a doll that has been sanded with a too-rough grit of sandpaper, or one with nailpolish as lipstick, or permenant markered makeup, makes me very upset.

I think there's actually two sides to it - on one hand, I do think it's disrespectful to the doll in some sense. It's almost negligent, really - instead of doing five minutes of research, people use corrosive or staining products, or scratch up their dolls, or do any other number of things to them. Damage through play is acceptable because it's incidental; damage through customising is almost always something that could have been avoided entirely by just the tiniest research and preparation.

The other facet is the artist in me - I can't stand seeing people being lazy about art. I don't expect everyone to do professional-level quality in their work, but I can't bear seeing customs done by people who just obviously have no interest in art as a skill - they don't research, don't practice, don't have any intention of getting better. I don't understand why you would customise a doll if you have no interest in doing a good job. Well, cheapness and laziness are two reasons, but I think they make pretty poor excuses, really.

Thank you for posting this topic, by the way - I've spent a long time wondering where the line is, and it was this topic that suddenly made me realise where it is (for me, at least)

 

I can understand possible neglect of dolls. People get new ones and forget about the older ones.

But actual abuse of sorts? I can't imagine after spending SOOOOOO much money on one of these works of art that anyone would blatently mistreat one. Unless they underestimate or don't appreciate the value of them.

It's mind boggling, but then abuse of any kind to anything is mind boggling to me!

 

^ This. I don't understand why it seems to be such a negative thing if a doll has yellowed... it's one of those things I just don't "get".

I often see discussion of yellowing as if it's some sort of dollie plague or some horrible disaster. Resin yellows, period. It's part of the chemical nature of the material. Pretty much all resin WILL yellow eventually. Yeah, sunlight or heat can accelerate the process... but depending on the resin batch/mix, some dolls are just going to yellow regardless, even if they're kept in a light-tight cabinet 99% of the time.

I've never really seen yellowing as a huge problem, to be honest. (As long as the yellowing is even all-over... not blotchy or showing "tan lines"). I have no qualms about buying a doll that has yellowed. A couple of my dolls have yellowed, one before I even bought her and another over the course of a couple of years. The one that has yellowed as I've owned him hasn't been out in the sunlight any more or less than some of my other dolls that have not... he's just one of those batches of CP WS that's turning to a buttery shade over time.

To me... it's just another resin color. *shrug* Is DZ's "yellow normal" resin somehow less appealing than their "pinky normal" shade? If not, why is it seen as a bad thing if one CP doll is a bit yellower than another?

 

Yellowing CAN'T be "abuse" because it happens to all resin dolls. I keep my doll-collection draped during the day, and most of them have still discolored slightly in some way over the years. You could keep your doll in the box in a dark closet, and its resin would still discolor with age. With or without you-- and with or without direct sunbathing-- it's going to happen.

As for anybody "deserving" to own a doll, well. I'm not even going to dignify that with an answer. Not when Clint Eastwood can do it for me in 7 words or less. Have you ever seen "Unforgiven"?
Right before Clint kills Gene Hackman, Gene says: "I don't deserve this... to die like this..."
Clint says: "Deserve's got nothing to do with it."
[*blammo!*]

 

I think this is my new favourite quote

Yellowing happens. If it was luminous day-glo yellow I could see why it would be undesirable, but my yellowish dolls are a nice creamy colour and they do spend most of their time inside my wardrobe, inside their boxes, covered in pillows. I take pretty good care of my dolls and the resin has still weathered on the oldest ones...that's a good indication of how yellowing affects every doll regardless of how you treat it.

 

While my practical, sensible side agrees with this, my inner little girl does not (no offence, who_la_hoop ). I REALLY don't want to turn this into a "barbie vs. BJD" debate, but I feel like with a doll as expensive and carefully crafted as most BJDs are, you're kind of obliged to treat one with more care than a mass-produced doll that you picked up for $20 at a toy store.

I'm NOT saying that the monentary value of a BJD is what makes it special, though pratically speaking, that is part of it... but BJDs, in the best sense, are closer to art pieces than "regular" dolls. You might go off-roading in your beat-up old Jeep, but the Ferrari that you've customized, polished, and tweaked to perfection? Not so much. Both are great cars, and both mean a lot to you, but you think more about the way you handle one than the other.

It's not so much about "deserving" as it is common sense. BJDs are special--in many cases, they are more lovingly crafted, more expensive, and mean more to their owners than your average toy bought off a shelf (not ALWAYS, I know, but a lot of the time). To me, that means they should be cared for with a gentler hand and with more consideration for the time that went into creating them.

Yes, there are owners who disregard this fact, and when they do, I'd say it can range from disconcerting to appalling. Yellowing isn't it (unless you do something incredibly stupid, like leaving your doll outside, naked, in the blazing summer sun for hours with no real excuse), but careless mod jobs, using inappropriate materials for faceups and customization... while that's not always "abuse," it's certainly saddening. I suppose my definition of "dolly abuse" would be people who treat their dolls more like disposable, replaceable art projects than things to treasure and care for. Not that dolls can't be art projects, but you catch my drift.

 

Even disregarding the view that dolls are art and just looking at them like any other object, I believe that people can mistreat or neglect to care for their other possessions, not just dolls. Clothes, electronics, books... sure, once they've bought them those things are theirs to do with whatever they want, but at the same time it's possible to mistreat your possessions.

 

I totally agree with Sonja. I feel like people are mistreating their stuff when I see scratches all over ipods, expensive books dogeared, torn, and with split spines, ect. Adding my own two cents,I don't think anything of people doing this, other than making a mental note not to lend anything to that person. It's not like the person is throwing their dog or child down the stairs. That is something I would go up in arms over. But tossing a doll down the stairs? Yeah, you're mistreating it and damaging it, but if that's what you want to do with it, have at. I don't understand it, and would probably look at the person funny, but I wouldn't react strongly.

If someone dropped their doll down the stairs by accident, I think I'd scream and have one of those slow-motion "NOOOOO" moments. I'd be running to save it just as fast as the owner!

 

I ask everyone this question now and expect you to really think about it and be honest with yourself;

Have you ever in your life seen someone with what used to be a nice car, but is now a scratched up dented paint-peeled mess and said, even in your mind, "They mistreated it"? Never in your life? Think about that in reference to other inanimate things that we use in daily life. A nice piece of jewlery, an expensive camera, an article of designer clothing even. Really really think.

It's inanimate and just a "___" and made for our use and enjoyment and all those things everyone is touting, but the thought of mistreatment would never cross your mind?

You're honestly lying to yourself if you deny this, and I'm sorry, nobody can convince me otherwise. If you appreciate something, you don't want to see it ruined or 'hurt'. Everyone has thought it, at least once, no matter how objective or sensible or practical they are. Period.

If you appreciated poetry and someone aquired a very rare and old book of beautiful poetry, then ripped the pages out infront of you, maybe even burned them, would you simply shrug your shoulders and say "Oh well, it was their book"? No, you wouldn't. You would feel something, whether you let it out or not.

We as humans appreciate beauty and far more often than not will have something to say if we think it's been destroyed at the hands of someone. Inanimate beauty or not, we appreciate it just the same.

You can say you're being objective, you can say you're being realistic, but all you're really being is fake. If we didn't love these dolls, we wouldn't be here. Seeing them disregarded or destroyed hurts all of us, I can see that when someone posts up a horror story and everyone posts their condolences.

Denying that you appreciate the beauty in these dolls by saying you 'don't care', yet would spend your hard earned money just to have one, is contradictory.

Stop trying to be right and just be honest.

And for everyone harping on the use of the word 'abuse', I apologize if the word has personal implications for you or you are accustomed to it specifically referring to mistreatment of a living thing, but its simply a word in the english language. For being so objective and impartial, alot of people took it into a personal context for no real reason.

With the following definition, any overuse of anything could be considered 'abuse';

2: improper or excessive use or treatment

No mention of the subject being living or inanimate, so please, step down from the soapbox.

And with that, I step down from my own.

 

If I may, allow me to equate?
I was talking to Zuka about this earlier actually, and I found a very nice equation. I play Warcraft (Um, obviously xD) and find it -so annoying- when people hack or twink to min/max stats (specifically in certain brackets, but we won't go too far into it).

Okay, so, let's say you're having a battle in-game. You've got some good challenges form the other players and you're getting some nice rewards from participating. Suddenly this high level, twinked out character comes and obliterates you in two hits, whether it be to hacking or to twinking. That just ruined the experience for someone else. First of all, It doesn't give you, the victim a chance to fight back, and secondly it's of -no- challenge to the perpetrator. The perp is only making life miserable for other people because s/he can.
'Well it's my game, I pay for it, I can do whatever I want!'
No. No, you see this effects the community. Now other people are going to start hacking and min/maxing to try and compete, and those that are just in it for the training skill and the rewards in-game are getting shafted out of a positive playing experience.

You've been looking at this dollie for some while. Researching prices, finding a good used buyer. Someone else comes and snatches it away for twice the price. They then ttake the dollie you've been saving for months for and post pictures of them putting it's hair on fire, breaking off the limbs, and letting their dog use it as a chew toy.
No matter who you are, that hurts.
And not to mention the collectability of the dollies, profitability, and worth that have been suddenly shot down by this poor user. They just made the other dollies less worthful in the community's eyes because, oh no, all those owners must treat them that way! I don't want to get one! I'm scared of paying $200 and getting a chew toy in the mail!

Granted, yes, it is -all- psychology. But that's why we're into dollies in the first place. We likes them. And it hurts to see the worth of one go down because someone wants to grief someone else.

 

Fellwing; don't you think that is strecthing it a little far? I don't mean to offend you, but I'm sorry- I'm not with you on the similarities. Besides, does this really happen? People buying BJDs to torch their hair and destroying them for kicks? I never ever experienced that, and although I haven't been a part of the BJD community for a very long time, I have been a part of other doll communitues for several years(with much more inexpensive dolls).

You are talking about very extreme cases here, which I doubt (I hope!!) does not happen very often so your referral to psychology wouldn't have much ground to stand on. For this to effect in any way how we view dolls or doll owners it would have to happen repeatedly(which is one of the main cornerstones in learning and shifting our thought patterns).

Zuka Engel; You make a good arguement here, and to some point I can agree with you. Of course it has been times that people annoys me with mistreating their things, but it never really bothers me to the extent that I would dwell with it more than a second. I really don't care how other people are treating their cars, or their cell phones. However, I do care how they treat my car or my cell phone. And I think this is the distinction that lacks in your arguments. As a doll owner, of course I love and cherish my dolls and of course I feel sad for someone if their doll has been in any sort of accident(and hence, I will give my sincere condolences because I sympathize with the doll owner- not because I'm horrified the doll itself has been in an accident). However, if they "mistreat" their dolls(meaning; treating them in a way that for me would be closer to ruining them) that is their choice and it wouldn't really bother me all that much. But if someone mistreated MY doll, I would be furious! ( I like dollsin general, but I really just love my own dolls).

And being rational? This is anything but! I'm not arguing that my behaviour is rational at all(because really, no human is so that would be pointless wouldn't it?). I'm just saying that if someone wants to treat their own things poorly, I just don't find it to be worth the time being emotional about it(others might, this has perhaps something to do with how materialistic we are).

However, I agree with you on the beauty part- but you forgot to think about something here as well. Beauty is not a fixed term. It's different for everyone one. The doll that might look hideous and destroyed in your eyes, is beautiful and loved in someone elses.

And now I'll be quiet for a while

 

I would think dollie destruction could go one of two ways:
1) Person buys doll, and intentionally destroys it. This is griefing just to make people upset. That is bad.
2) A person has a doll for a LONG TIME and due to wear and tear, yellowing, etc, decides to demolish it/recycle/throw away/what have you. That's acceptable because it was used well and it's not intentionally being done to hurt someone's feelings.

Sure, there will be people who, out of ignorance, will harm a dollie in a similar fashion. That isn't intentional, and therefore would be innocent as well.
I think that's what I was trying to get at.

 

While I agree, that still REALLY bothers me. The horror stories one hears of people using SHARPIE to do faceups, for example... kinda makes me cringe. Perhaps I'm just being too sensitive (wouldn't be the first time, lol!) but it makes me pretty angry when people do that sort of thing to BJDs. No, it's not a dog or a kid, and yeah, it's just an innocent misunderstanding. Still, do the research, will ya? It's not that hard to figure out the basic "dos" and "don'ts."

Meh. Sorry all, perhaps I'm just being silly, but... that does bother me.

 

My favourite book is dogeared, torn, has a split spine and pages only just holding together. I could replace it with another copy, but that wouldn´t have the same memories attached from reading it so often that I almost know it word for word...

The same applies with dolls, I´d rather see a scratched, marked, broken, badly customized doll that is loved than one that sits on a shelf gathering dust.

Deliberate attempts to destroy a doll - that´s a little different and I see distinctions even there. Why was the doll destroyed in the first place? Was the destruction part of a process of creation? Or was it willful and done with intent to only damage?

For me when it comes to inanimate objects intent is the key to abuse.

 

I don't see how such things could be considered abuse, all of the above are artifacts from daily use a.k.a. wear and tear.

 

Thats a difficult question to answer because it's something like beauty...it's in the eye of the beholder. Some think hey I've spent so much money on this doll it'd be wrong if I weren't to play with it others beleive this doll shou;d be untouched.

I beleive why spend so much money on something your going to keep under the bed to keep safe. I plan to take my dollies out, not everywhere but to various cons and on photo shoots ect. They are beautiful and should be shown off to some point. I guess what would constitute as "abuse" to me is throwing the doll around and leaving the possibility to break the doll. They are meant to be enjoyed but you should also take care of them. Sort of like a very expensive peaice of jewlery or something like that.

 

I think people can, in a way, ''abuse'' their dolls. Even if it isn't intentional.

Like when an owner dives into and eye mod, or face up without doing any research whatsoever and they ruin the doll. Sure they didn't mean to, but the destruction of the doll could have been easily avoided.

Or by not caring for it. Like with the scratched iPod; if you buy a case for it, it won't get scratched and dinged. The same way with dolls. They should be enjoyed, but with simple measures taken to keep them safe.

Sometimes when I see a hideous, self-done face-up on a beautiful doll I think to myself, 'Why are they abusing their doll?'. I know they aren't though. Sometimes it's just hard to understand and accept how people love their dolls differently.

 

I was just re-reading my earlier post and thought I should clarify my ¨sitting on a shelf gathering dust¨ comment. It´s not that I think there is anything wrong with having BJDs as display only dolls, but there is a difference to having a doll nicely displayed in a cabinet and making sure it is looked after (dusted/kept behind glass etc) than just having it sit there day after day, year after year gathering dust and not being appreciated in any way.