Do you believe that some owners mistreat their dolls?

Today I took my Elf Yder, stripped him naked and put him up to his waist in a muddy pond. 8D

Based on that, I'm sure some people would point and scream "ZOMG DOLLY ABUSER!" But does it matter that before I took him home I took him apart, shook out the water, put his pieces in a doll carrier, carried his head home by hand, and then washed all his pieces and elastic in warm soapy water? I plan on letting his elastic dry for a few days, giving him an additional magic eraser bath tomorrow and putting him back together this weekend.

Do I mistreat my doll? *shrug* It's cleaner now than it was this morning most likely.

 

The voice of reason has spoken.

 

"mistreat: to abuse somebody or something: to treat somebody or something badly or roughly"

Some people are thinking in strict terms, but abuse is defined as harmful or improper uses of things as well. I think that laboring on the topic and making a fuss about it, like worrying about how other people treat their dolls is a waste of time, but don't underestimate the fact that most bjd owners do care for their dolls and property, even if you may think they're obsessed or weird.

Also, the way that comment (Silk's) sounded was that money is frivolous and people can mangle their property, but don't worry about it because you can just buy it back. It's not that simple for most people.

I'm done now.

 

That sounds like an order. If so, then I just have to oppose you.

Don't go shooting holes in my faith, my family's faith and my nation's faith simply because you do not, or cannot see the animate in the inanimate. The possession of physical objects (especially dolls) is central to Shinto and to the transition from life to death within it.

You ask us to "Stop making dolls more than they actually are". Very well, as long as you accept that - for me at least - (some) dolls are both living and dead at the same instant, gateways to Meido, interlocutors for the power of specific Kami and (in one case) a little sister (who does not wish to stay dead).

I don't go forcing Shinto down yer gullet do I? Thus, please refrain from blanket statements like this and commands which may or may not trample on deeply held and profound beliefs.

My dolls to me are exactly what they are, no more and no less - and this includes my Goshintai (avatars) of Ebisu, Hyakudayu, Susanowo, Sanbaso and little Yumiko.

And the same might be said for those who turn to their dolls for less orthodox expressions of the self-made-form. If this interaction and imposition of of a remote identity gives succour and comfort, then I charge you not to drag these people down as if they are somehow perverse.

Tolerance, I beg of you.

Yuko.

 

I think her main point wasn't really telling others how they should treat and view their own dolls, if you read the entire thing, it's more about losing perspective and I think the real point she is trying to make is - why should anyone be concerned about how OTHERS are treating their dolls.

How others treat their inanimate objects shouldn't matter to you. It's their choice to enjoy their dolls their way, just as it is yours.

Tolerance is a two-way street.

 

I agree, that was more of a demand than an opinion Silk, you cant tell someone to stop doing anything just becase you believe otherwise.
Many cultures, (mine included) believe in life given to inanimate objects. While I dont practice this myself, many cultures still do. And I know in Japan, dolls are not just dolls, they have many different types for many different symbolisms and it can get to a religious level.

I just want to say again since my post got buried before, It is possible to abuse/mistreat *anything*, dolls included. And that my friends is more fact than just my personal opinion.

onnawufei- No, you did not mistreat your doll, after being in the pond you made sure he was cleaned up. Now if you put him in the pond, took pics, left him muddy and wet to rot, then I'd think personally that it was mistreatment, and just downright silly.


Now if someone just happens to enjoy this hobby by mistreating their dolls, more power to them!
I am not one to say it is wrong or right. But who's to say I cant be concerned?

*Jen

 

I cringed a little at all the toaster comparisons too. just because two things share a property (inanimacy, in this case) doesn't mean they're the same. I'm sure there are people out there who actually bought their toasters so that they could enjoy the process of making toast, but for most people, they're just a means to a delicious end. compare that to BJDs...while some people are interested in end products other than the doll itself (photos? stop-motion videos? that's about all I can think of...), for most people the goal IS the object. I'd say that puts dolls in a different category than toasters, and therefore if you want to make comparisons about what does or does not constitute abuse, it's better to find something more similar. I thought the people who mentioned clothes had a good analogy--something else where people run the gamut from pristinely preserved clothes that last decades, through those people who follow washing instructions and hang their nice things carefully (but refuse to worry about a fraying pants hem or the like), right through to people whose wardrobes are the bedroom floor and who scrape holes in their jeans not because it's a fashion statement but because they were bored and had sharp objects to hand. and I guess you can say, none of these things is really "abuse;" they're all just "what the person wants to do with their clothes." but I feel like when people neglect things out of a spirit of "who cares? it's only STUFF!" that's abuse...whereas when people do whatever they do because it actually helps them enjoy the item, I think that's fine.

so in dolly terms, the person who gets joy and bonds with her doll by swooping him around by his arms is totally cool by me. the person who leaves her doll lying in the floor where it can be stepped on because why should she bother picking it up bugs me. would I ever say that anything should be done about it? no...it's her doll. but I don't have to like it, and it's not because of the behaviour, it's because of the attitude.

of course, from my perspective, you might as well snap a photo, because whatever the damage is, it's already been done...

 

What you might consider "mistreating a doll" is highly subjective. The point is, why be concerned? It's not your doll. Each person has a different idea of what a doll is to them. Your view on it, isn't going to be the same as everyone else's.

It would be no different than people feeling entitled to voice their "concern" about others becoming too emotionally invested in them. They might find that unhealthy or neglecting the real humans in their life = which truly ISN'T any of their business anymore than it is yours that a person plays with their doll in a way you personally find mistreating.

Do you want to be judged for the manner in which you treat your dolls the same as you feel you are entitled to voice your "concern" about how others treat theirs? Because accusing folks of being "doll abusers" is fine as long as you don't mind people being called "doll crazies" as well.

If you want to encourage judgement because you are entitled to your opinion, be prepared to be judged, because that's how that works.

Personally, I don't think anyone has any business telling people how to play with nor treat their dolls - PERIOD.

 

I don't think it's anybody's business but mine how I treat my dolls, and I don't think it's my business how anyone else treats theirs. Sure, I have opinions about what is and isn't attractive on a doll, and sometimes I feel like people are ruining their dolls, but in the end that's their business and not mine. And to the extent that someone's treatment of a doll "bothers" me, it's in the sense that I think they're being reckless with a very expensive object. I wince the same way when someone drops their iPhone in the toilet -- "Oh dear, through negligence that person just ruined a $500 thing, sucks to be them!" I'm not offended by it (but I might think twice before I let them use MY iPhone, if I had one).

A doll is not a pet or a child. Society doesn't get a say in what is and isn't appropriate to do with a doll. Once someone pays for it it's theirs to do with as they like, whether or not that meshes with what you like. Keep them in UV-protected glass cases, treat them like children, leave them on the bookshelf for weeks at a time, hit them with hammers. It's your decision.

 

I don't know why people are so concerned with what other people do with their dolls. Some people see them as more than 'just a doll' sure, but other people see them as just dolls. They are, no matter your beliefs, not on the same level as a cat or dog or other animal. There is no ASPCA for doll abuse/misuse. There isn't even a clearly defined 'misuse' guide.

Yes its sad when someone puts marker and cheap paint to their doll or cuts them up for some mod, but its theirs. If they want to swing it around by the toes its their money. They can go buy another and if they can't well then now they understand they need to have a bit more caution in the future, but it still has nothing to do with ANYONE else. It is their doll, their fault, their money. You have no stake in their doll.

If you don't like the fact that my dolls have unrealistically painted faces because I can't afford MSC right now to do a face up with pastels or my pencils, that's your opinion. You are entitled to it and I'm not going to tell you you have to love my dolls. I love them enough for all of us. But if I want to mod an ear or drill a hole in their face or let my dog play with them that's my problem. I paid the $600 for them. I didn't ask you for any money.

That said, I'm not trying to be mean, but I just see so many threads about how other people treat THEIR OWN dolls and how upset and traumatized other people are about seeing it. Yes sometimes its an avoidable 'noob' thing, like a tattoo in Sharpie, but a modded Limited, people letting kids play with their dolls, sanding off the boobs, gender swapping, hybrids, eye opening, what people do with second hand dolls, WHATEVER. Its not for you to dictate who can do what with the thing they paid money for. I admit I'm a little nervous about buying a second hand doll for modding purposes, but not even the previous owner can stop what I do since they sold it and I paid them for it.

I just think everybody needs to stop being so concerned about what everybody else is doing with their dolls.

 

"Stop making dolls more than they actually are". Nah ha. That is an order, not an opnion.

And indeed, tolerance is a two way street - or more like a double edged sword. yet, I cannot begin to tolerate views which are so clearly drifting towards blanket intolerance.

Moreover, the difference here is clear: I (and others I think) are not demanding that Silk (or anyone in fact) interact with their dolls in a specific way, we are demanding that other individuals do not require anyone else to conform to their views on the issue. This may not have been Silk's absolute intent*, but it seems very clear from the post. She lays down what she believes dolls are and are not, then requires people to conform. From her position this may be reasonable, but she seems incable to taking in other positions - both religious and social.

Indeed, I'd not get upset if someone bought an effigy of Amaterasu herself and painted her blue. Yet, I do get shirty when someone requires that I treat a sacred object as if it were little more than a scale model.

It might not needle me so much if I were not a follower of Ebisu-Hyakudayu, but there we are.

*Despite my perspicacity, English is still an alien tongue to me and I lose some of the subtlties of the langauge. However, I have had the BF go over the matter and while I will not print what he said, as it was rather fruity, the general gist seems to be that the post on which I commented was, shall we say a shade dictatorial - and that mine was a little thin-skinned and beligerent as well...

I need a drink now.

Yuko.

 

I just want to say that one's person idea of dolly abuse could be someone else's idea of an art project. I recently took part in an art show and someone whom I met has actually had an exhibit consisting on dolls that were done up in unusual ways. You'll have to see these links in order to see what I mean.

http://jenniferbeinhacker.com/artwork/280830.html

http://jenniferbeinhacker.com/artwork/197993.html

http://jenniferbeinhacker.com/artwork/198013.html

Granted she used vinyl dolls and I wouldn't be surprised if she had gotten them from thrift stores or cheap discount places. But let's say she had used ABJD's in her pieces. Some of you would cry "DOLL ABUSE" but keep in mind that just because she chooses to use dolls in this way doesn't mean that she believes that she is intentionally abusing dolls or she gets her kicks in intentionally harming dolls. She just basically used them as tools in her art, just as other artists use paintbrushes or pencils.

I'm not saying that you have to love her art or completely approve of how she uses dolls in her art. I'm just saying that you should at least respect what she's doing, even if you don't personally like it or approve of it.

 

To each their own.

Yes, I do believe there is such thing as maltreatment of a doll.
Dolls, as I see them, are meant to be loved and cherished, not necessarily kept in pristine condition in their boxes etc blah blah -

However, to me.. ruining or intentionally lowering the value/degrading the item in value, appearance, and purpose of the object be it a doll, toaster, or person, is 'abuse' of the doll.

For example, the head which many have seen which was colored in a "Kiss"-esque mask in permenant marker, sanded down to barely any remants existed, and pretty much destroyed - was abuse.

It's sort of hard to say, I am very poor with words, but I am entitled to have my own opinion on what is abuse and what is not, and if I see something wrong I am entitled to think abuse. This does not mean I must force it on you, or you force your ideals on me. We can keep them to ourselves, but we are each entitled to their opinion.

Yes, I do believe some owners mistreat their dolls, but what can I do about it?

 

So if someone took off the default makeup from a doll, that in your mind would be abuse of the doll. Since the makeup was standard and lowered the price of the doll.

 

If someone is using dolls in the ways depicted in those barbie photos- art- then that is ART to them. It's how they care to use them. It's just as legitimate as the owner who lets children play with her dolls freely because fingerprints can be removed and the good memories matter more, or the owner who keeps their doll in a hermetically sealed class case. It is how they care to use their dolls. But to simply take very bad care of a doll out of carelessness, rather than lack of resources, seems...
Well, who here doesn't cringe a little when they think of someone taking a sharpie to their doll's face? Their doll, their rights, but if done out of laziness rather than simply not knowing how to care for a doll or by accident it's rather upsetting.

 

That's obviously not what Nyalee was talking about, Kaiser-Serena... But I suspect you already know that.

 

I just re-read what Nyalee wrote and noticed that she said she has hard time expressing well. And Brightfires, English isn't my first language so when I read something I read it literal, so there was confusion on both parts.

Anyway I retract what I said.

 

But then it comes down to this- who's to say anything isnt anyones business?
I wouldnt go accusing anyone of "doll-busing", and I am actuallly not very concerned about what ANYONE does with thier dolls. Because Like I said, however someone enjoys their doll, it's their thing. I didnt mean I was personally concerned, I just meant who has such high authority to say anyone is banned from being concerned because "its none of their business".
The topic of emotional involement in this hobby has been beaten to death. I posted here for the sake of contructive debate, not to "encourage judement" which I didnt attempt once.
I dont know if most of your reply was directly toward my opinion, but if it was, you really need to reread my post cuz you've got it all confuzzled...

*jen

 

LOL.

Actually most dolls here seem pretty well-taken-care-of in the faceup department; its rare to see a truly bad artistic attempt on DoA. [Or maybe I'm seeing the wrong threads - whichever :p]

However, on other doll-related boards this is not always the case. There, we often DO see repaints that may as well have been done with a Sharpie. Then people come out of the woodwork to reassure the artist on what a great job they did - so they instantly go off and purchase ANOTHER mint factory doll that is long discontinued and highly sought-after, [and would sell for upwards of $200 as is, to boot] they rip the face off of her too and VOILA'! Another repaint courtesy of Crayola and Sharpie.

Then they try to auction it for $200.00+.

*facepalm*

It makes me feel bad for the dolly victims. No kidding.

As for me, I wash my hands before touching any of my dolls, BJD or not, I iron their clothes if I can or the clothes need it, and generally handle them in a respectful fashion. Especially with my large BJD, I may quietly speak to her when entering or leaving the room where she lives. Dolls may be the actual equivalent of a toaster or other inanimate object.... yet toasters do not have eyes that look at me. [Or seem to look.]

I do not HAVE to treat dolls with respect. But I do. Because I love them. I want them to be happy. Yes I know that sounds pretty stupid, but I *do*

 

I also agree with some past sentiments. A doll is an inanimate object. Sure, it costs money, but there are things that cost alot MORE money that people abuse. Some people buy a new car and never get an oil change, or tune-up. This is really none of my business. Yah, I've seen some things that i'd never do to a doll, that some people do, but i didn't pay for their doll. Therefor i have no right to tell them what they can or cannot do with it.

In the end, its an inanimate object, and i'm personally a little more concerned about things that REALLY are an abuse issue, such as Children, women, and animals.