Do you have a right to feel offended?

some dolls look very bishie.. people would offen make mistakes about their genders. x__x" sometimes my mom make mistakes that my doll is girl. it's really nothing big. I do get confused what's their gender.

 

I find when I am out and about that non-BJD people in general seem to just assume ANY doll is a girl. No matter what. I mean, my boy dolls have short hair, wear very masculine clothes, etc., and people still tell me, "Oh, she's pretty!"

It's a little annoying but I think most "civilians" are just not used to seeing male dolls, other than Ken and GI Joe.

If worse comes to worse, I am happy to lower their trousers to prove my point, lol! I suppose at that point MY behavior becomes offensive....

 

Well, you have a right to feel what you feel, but you can't expect others to change how they see things just because you feel annoyed right?

It's like asking people to change their world view... Almost impossible.

So go on feeling offended... But know that you can do nothing about it unless something changes.. and that will probably not be the others. Tough, but that's just how it is, i think.

 

Your sister seems to have the right idea on this one. I can understand if there's a girly looking guy in clear guy clothing even if it's just jeans and a tee and then they get called a girl. I would get offended but if it was a skirt or a dress then there is reason to assume it is a girl.

 

no offense but I think you are over-reacting

 

Ugh, I know what you meen. My Grandpa calls my doll a girl when he knows he is a boy. Even though he has long hair, he keeps calling him a girl. But mostly I ignor him.

 

Well, (I'm sorry if this has been mentioned, but) an important part of this is to ask why the doll is wearing dresses and skirts. Generally, it's a want to be more feminine, so why would the doll be upset by the gender confusion? And by extension, why should you?

Not entirely the same, I know, but I have a Build-A-Bear panda who likes his white ruffly spaghetti-strap shirt and his cute green capri shorts, even has a bow on his ear. He just likes the pretty clothes. But his girlfriend doesn't want a girly boy, so he doesn't want to be called a girl. But he kind of expects it. It comes with the territory.

It's all backstory and characterization, as far as I'm concerned. *shrug* But there's no reason to get more upset than the doll itself would, at the very worst.

 

I must admit I have had problems identifying the gender of some dolls based on their apparel. I have seen beautiful clothing intended for male dolls that I have initially misidentified as being for females. Volks and Dollheart are both very good at this. If I bought such clothing for my boys, I would expect their gender to be called into question. I wouldn't be upset if I dressed my boys in feminine outfits and they were referred to as girls, especially by someone who wasn't an enthusiast. It's no biggy. I know what gender they are. Maybe your sister is teasing you?

 

I didn't read through every page of this debate, so please pardon me if this has already been said!

I think one of the things that makes it hard for people to identify some dolls as males, even if they're wearing "male" clothing (and even if they're one of the more "masculine" sculpts), is that in many societies, what was once exclusively "male" is no longer considered so. I mean, I don't know any girls who've walked down a city street and had people stop and stare at them because they're in jeans and a t-shirt, both of which were once "men only". However, in most of these societies the opposite is not true: if a boy walks around in a dress, people will take notice. Also, in these societies, doll collecting tends to fall in the "feminine" category, and dolls themselves are usually thought of as "female".

So then, if you've got a doll who looks "feminine", and is wearing clothes deemed by society to be "feminine", then... I don't really see how it's offensive if people think he's a girl. If you point out that it's a boy and they start flinging slurs or saying that you and/or your doll are going to hell for that then yes, by all means, call them on it. (I would, and rather loudly, too.)

 

It annoys me when the mistake is made continuously by the same person/people. My family are classic examples.
I have a doll, wolfgang, who wears dresses. I was fine with it when they first called him a girl. I just corrected them and thought that'd be the end of it but they still call him a girl and it makes me angry. I take it more as an insult to me because of the fact that they obviously aren't listening to me.

 

and that makes tonnes of sense... if you dress a doll in a dress, even if it's just a guy who likes to wear dresses, then people are going to assume it's a girl (unless you have a really masculine mold)

but if the same people repeatedly tell you your doll is a girl when you've told them multiple times that it's a boy, then you have every right to be upset.

 

I could understand somebody taking offense, particularly if they have customized the doll themselves or have a very good bond with the doll, but if it were me I would try to empathize with the person who made the 'offensive' comment. If they've never really encountered a male BJD or even a BJD at all before, what they're seeing could be confusing to them.

Generally, I think you can tell if someone is going out of their way to be downright offensive to you- in which case, yes, you have every right to be offended, but you certainly shouldn't let the comment hurt you or make you make any brash decisions about doll-owning.

 

I would be a bit offended if my male doll was continuously called a 'she'. I think it's reasonable, since cross-dressing is very common in the doll world *as far as I can tell* unless the doll's character is supposed to be feminine in appearance, I wouldn't get offended, I'd just say the fact he looks girlish/wearing a dress is part of the character...it gets annoying, but if people just don't get it, then they really..just don't get it. OH and I think we DO have a right to get annoyed. Some people consider these dolls their babies, and IRL, you wouldn't want someone calling your daughter your son...

 

First, before I delve into the world of sharing my questionably PC opinion on this, I do want to chime in and say you have the "right" to feel any way you want. No one can tell you how to feel. So feel free to feel offended or angry over someone confusing your boy doll for a girl one just because he looks like a girl.

That being said... LOL! This is probably gonna sound mean. Don't take it that way. But.... They're dolls. It's always seemed to me to be a ridiculous thing to get offended about any personalization of your doll, regardless of the issue. And just like folks out there are free to get offended by people guessing gender wrong on their dolls, I am free to mock them for getting pissy about it.

However, since this was offered by way of qualification....(And little Rika, I promise I'm not singling you out to pick on. Promise!)

Okay, so some folks DO think of their dolls as their babies. (I myself regard my DiM Winny that way. But then that doll sculpt is genderless as a Ken doll--on purpose--so you can go either way with it. and I dress the sculpt as a girly girl because I want you to regard it as female.)

But...

In real life--with babies, gender confusion is common in strangers because they ARE babies. Gender on many babies is difficult if not impossible to tell unless they're naked or until some distinguishing traits appear later on. So clothing is used by parents as the major external qualification of a baby's gender. Hence so much baby garb demonstrating such exaggeratedly polarized gender traits. If a person saw a baby girl in a blue boy's outfit they'd be a moron to assume it was a girl. They would, in fact, be well within the norm in assuming that since the infant was dressed male, it is indeed a boy. Furthermore, if someone did happen to dress their baby in the garb of the opposite gender, it's absurd to be mad because some stranger followed the primary cue for determining gender for an infant and didn't automatically assume the opposite of the norm.

That's not how people think and it has nothing to do with "not getting it". Reasons for crossdressing a doll are always personal choice. By virtue of that domain of internal decision making, the public isn't going to be in on that grandly inspired concept... unless you are into the whole "this is my pamphlet explaining why my doll looks female but isn't"

But even so, we can take the argument regarding real life children changing our perspective on whether we have grounds for offense--to make it closer to the heart of the matter by inverting the gender and upping the age.

I have a 13 year old son. If I put my real life teenage son in a dress and long hair (this would be more relevant if he were remotely androgynous to begin with) then I most certainly still wouldn't have grounds to be offended if he was thought to be a girl. (Though you'd be an idiot for the assumption regarding my son in particular because dress or not he's 6'2" and 230lbs of giganto-boy) But if he was more slender, smaller, less obviously male to begin with and you DID happen to make the mistake of thinking him a girl, standing there in his wig and dress and girl shoes--then I only have myself to blame because I'm the one who put him in a dress. Female clothing. I may have done so for my own reasons, but since the general populace (for the most part) isn't psychic, nor are they prone to approaching everyone who looks female and inquiring about gender JUST to make sure they don't offend any crossdressing boys by using incorrect personal pronouns--they will assume female gender. And rightly so.

So most certainly if someone dresses a rather questionably masculine doll sculpt (regardless of the goulies hidden in his lacey knickers) in a dress, bloomers, whatever...--then people are simply going to assume a girl. And there's nothing wrong with that.


Of course, At this point the owner of said male doll may certainly get irritated if they like. But that doesn't change the fact that they put feminine disguise on a doll and then had the temerity to be surprised when people followed the visual cues to their logical conclusion instead of going "oh wait! I must first follow obscure dolly etiquette to be sure I am not offending anyone by assuming that which I could normally take for granted".


Now, don't get me wrong. I find this entire thing hilarious. The idea of getting mad over it is more than chuckle worthy. And I gotta warn you folks out there who think this is "get offended" fodder. If I see your doll in a dress and it looks female, I AM most likely going to make the mistake of addressing it as such. And if you get mad at me, I am going to laugh at you.

 

Most people have stated they only get mad (or offended) if the person keeps mistaking the doll's gender even after the owner has stated said gender. Several people stated they have friends or family members insist the doll's a girl, even after being shown the doll's crotch. I can understand how that could be irritating. But mad or offended? There must be other things in this world more worthy of your anger.

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, I'm going to assume it's a duck. Expect me to be surprised and confused when you say it's a goose.

 

People mistaking the gender of my dolls wouldn't suprise me so it's not really offending either. I do think it's rude and ignorant when people insist "No way that must be a girl" when they've been corrected. Fine, maybe they are girly, maybe they're a transvestite, etc, etc. But now you know. There's no reason to be a jerk about it. I don't know how upset I'd get as I'm used to this and being teased about my 'girly boy' JP dolls by my family. But that doesn't detract that some people are downright rude. On those ocassions, although we have the expectation of mistaken gender issues, I do think the owners have legit reason to complain abit. Jerks are jerks and we whine about them :p

PS, I don't think it's worth getting worked up about. A little irritated maybe but nothing more. And that's probablly more when you're having a bad day imo.

 

i have a girly boy. i dont dress him in skirts, but he has a feminine face so people think that he is a girl. if someone comes up to me and says "oh what is she?" ill calmly just reply "he's a..." and continue to use "he" or "him" during the conversation. i dont get offended, and ive gotten used to it. generally im just flattered that people like him and dont think im a nut job for having my doll with me in a craft store.

you have a right to be upset, yes, but id suggest just taking common misunderstandings with a grain of salt. if youre getting teased about it by friends and family, then yes, i can understand youd be upset. i get mad when my brother teases my boy, but lets get real, some boys just dont get the dolly thing.

 

Someone simply mistaking a boy for a girl in the dollfie world, particularly someone who wasn't familiar with BJDs or Asian aesthetics, for that matter, would not offend me. On the other hand, someone who would take it to the next level and insult a male doll for looking effeminate out of closed-minded bigotry would certainly offend me. In the end though, you just have to ignore people like that.

 

I honestly don't get offended by anything regarding my dolls that is not an insult. I get mildly annoyed when I have to keep correcting someone on my doll's gender, however, but if they do it once or twice I can kind of understand. Despite the fact that Theron has a very masculine face (DM Film Noir Lawrences have such MANLY jawlines ), he has shoulder-length hair. From the back, he looks female. Even if people are looking him dead in the face, I've had them compliment me on my pretty girl.

People see long hair and automatically think "girl". I've come to accept this. Why should I be offended by someone seeing a DRESS and thinking "girl"? Although Theron doesn't crossdress, my next boy doll will. I'll just have to learn to correct people and pull down trousers if need be, which I already do.

The only thing that ever annoys me, like I said before, is when people repeatedly call him a girl. He was even shirtless one day, and someone called him female! Another annoyance is when people refuse to accept that he is indeed male. I think someone has the right to get mildly offended when someone is in their face saying "That CAN'T be a boy! It's a girl!" Sorry. My doll, my rules. If I say it's male, then it's freaking male.

Offense depends a lot on the person and the situation. I don't believe people have no right to be offended - but I do believe it's rather silly to get up in arms about one little mistake, when you're the one toting a girly boy in a frilly skirt. Lighten up, you know?

 

You know... even when I dress my baby girl in a pink dress, people still look at her and say 'HE'. I guess it's because she has a mischievous face and is a big baby.

I used to get a bit upset but I don't even bother correcting them anymore.

I really don't think you should get upset if you dress your boy doll in a dress and people think he's a girl. They wouldn't know! Especially considering that boy dolls tend to look androgynous because they're molded so prettily and all. But if you tell them once and the same person makes the same mistake again and again, you'd have the right to tell them off. But if it's the first time, you can't expect them to know.

Actually, in real life, even for crossdressing Jrockers, their goal IS to look like a girl, so I imagine they'd be flattered if someone mistook them for a girl on stage...

As for dollies, I guess the owner dresses a boy in a dress for personal enjoyment, but the owner has to keep in mind that other people can't look inside their heads or read their minds...so they should be prepared to explain their doll's gender, and not just get offended...