Do you have a right to feel offended?

One of the dolls I'm planning on will be the girliest boy alive.... and I know that if people call him a girl, I'll get that crazy evil grin, say he's a guy, and prove it by showing them his junk.

Just to scare the hell outta them.

Ok, maybe not. But I sure won't be offended.

 

LOL well the junk is there, plus we know they are guys, so whatever someone who doesnt know dolls has to say, will be like a breeze of unwanted air :P

 

Lucky for you it wasn't say, your son dressed as a girl. I guess the point I want to make is that it is not really about dolls, it's about transexual and transvestite culture. The fact that "effeminate" and "gay" are considered insults, well, take it from there.

 

I think I would be more offended if someone commented that I was wierd or wrong for wanting my boy to dress as a girl in the first place. I know I get a lot of strange looks when I admit my boy IS a boy in a skirt, but then I point out that in the hobby, it's actually a common thing, and that is the way I imagined his character to dress. If they still don't understand, then that is their opinion, and they are entitled to it.

As for the question, I havent taken my boy out a lot, but from family members I've gotten the "..Wait, he's a boy?" and I don't really mind, since I go through it when I try to explain about the Japanese bands I like.

 

Well it depends on the society you live and what kind of culture affects you. Around here where i live is very liberated, temrs such as "tranny" "gay" "lesbo" are not offensive, in fact they allow the people to get their identities not confused with those who are straight. I have seen loads of "draggy trannies" in loads of situations, and nobody is offended. They know what they do, we enjoy their performance, their friendship and overall, we respect their choice. No need to be offended, its their identity and they know what comes with it.
I used to be a tomboy, people thought i was a dude, my brother had long hair and loads thought he was a chick. Did we care? nope, did we feel insulted? no. The same with dolls, loads of people will come with idiotic ignorant comments, and all you need to do in life is to take it with a smile and let the wind flow.

 

Mishita: Just because that word is not offensive to the people around you does not mean that it's inoffensive to other people. It's language that is used to dehumanize and mock trans people, particularly trans women. Could we perhaps discuss the question at hand without using hate speech?

To stay on topic - I don't get offended at the first mistake or if I don't correct the person, but the same person continuing to use the wrong pronouns or insist that my doll is not the gender I say they does get my hackles up. Obviously the dolls don't care, but who appreciates being openly, obviously ignored?

 

well i am sorry in america is different. At least in europe people is not offended by that terminology, and embrace their changes with pride. And i am clearly puttin "" on words considered offensive.

As for dolls, not i am not offended. Pkus i have seen very tom-boyish looking dollie girls as well. And i believe their fleixibility to look whatever way thier ownwer wants, is what makes them fun ^^

 

Mishita, I don't live in Europe but I can tell you that I live in a very accepting part of America, in fact I grew up in and now live close to NYC, which is rife with gay culture of all miens. That doesn't mean that certain words are not used as insults, even among drag queens I've heard "that is so gay" to deride.
ShirouHokuto, the only reason I used "hate speech" is to discuss the original point, which was did the OP have a right to feel offended, answer being no, which got steered onto other tracks in the various replies.
As for being offended by being ignored which I take to mean "but I told you before he was a boy", the point I was making was that in transgender culture here as far as I have known and experienced it in the 47 years that I have been alive, if you are dressed as a woman and you are not addressed as such you will be insulted. I have a friend (who works with me openly dressed as a woman) who has all the male parts with no intention of losing them, but we refer to her as she, as she lives as a woman, dresses as a woman, has a husband, and uses a female name, although her paychecks are made out to her male name. She's been like this for 25 years, and expects to be addressed as a woman, and uses the Ladies Room BTW. If I see a doll dressed as a girl, I will call her "she" and if she is yours and you get offended, that is actually insulting to the transvestite culture that I have known and lived with my entire life, and the culture that encompasses real life cross dressing humans. It's not really about dolls, is it?

 

I think that our age difference may imply that culture and society is different. My generation at least does not pay too much attention to such things. Many of my university and school friends who have been gay, and in one case a transgender girl, have joked and have laughed it off. I am in my early 20s in a very bohemian and uncaring europe. We do not even think about trans and non-straight people too much. They are not part of isolated groups. To get offended by a doll is totally different o intentionally offend or insult an actuak human being. If there is violence, insult and bad intention, then that is offensive. However, in day to day western europe, that is not much heard off. Just think about amsterdamn, soho, paris, those are places in which freedom is total and absolute.

I believe the OP has a problem of communication with her sister. I doubt many people will understand the difference between male and female dolls, unless they are actual owners. Face it, many of our boys do look girlish. But thats their flexibility, many people dont intend to be insulting, they dont know.

 

I highly doubt adults would make fun of a little kid, no matter how oddly dressed. A doll doesn't have feelings, so someone isn't really going to care about saying what they really think of it.

What I was originally going to say is this whole crossdressing doll thing isn't about transexuals at all. If it were, people would buy girl dolls and say they'd been born as men and finally had the surgery to make them feel whole. People would be complimented when their crossdressing doll was mistaken for a girl. If you talk to a real transexual/transvestite, they are overjoyed when people see them as the gender they are dressing as and putting forth.

 

I really doubt it. And I also doubt freedom as being so absolute in those places, for instance I know it is not allowed for children in French schools to wear Islamic head scarves. That isn't freedom, it's just conforming to another set of restrictions.
I also find it more than a bit hypocritical that you don't see a problem with insulting me, or my culture.
Truly, I don't believe that all young people are ignorant, but I can point out a few here who clearly are.

 

I just wanted to pop in real quick since I couldn't help but find these words a little interesting since it implies that any person (or doll character) that cross-dresses is automatically a transvestite. True, if a transvestite is all done up to look like that of a woman or a man, they will probably want to be referred to as such. But just like a multitude of other people who also crossdress, these dolls often times have extensive backgrounds and stories that explain their cross-dressing tendencies that may have nothing to do with wanting to be the opposite sex at all and I'm pretty sure those who have dolls who's characters ARE transvestites certainly aren't the ones getting "offended" in the first place.

I don't have any flat-out cross-dressing dolls myself but I may in the future, and I already know that if I do his reason for doing so won't have anything to do with wanting to look and feel like a woman. I already have a male who's character was originally female and I certainly don't give a flip one way or another what sex he is reffered to by strangers that don't realize he is a boy as I realize how feminine looking he is and honestly, when people ask me about my dolls in a polite way I'm more in the mindset of being flattered that they asked in the first place, not all ready to give them my doll's life story.

 

Mishita: Putting quotation marks around the word is not really addressing the problem. It's a damaging word with a lot of transphobic baggage; in the interests of being respectful during the debate, please don't use it, as obviously not everyone here is part of your circle of friends that is okay with the term.

Stella Maris: It is, obviously, insulting to address a trans woman with the wrong pronouns - that's not even close to the point I was trying to make. What would be offensive is assuming that a person's stated preference is less valuable than the other person's assumptions - regardless of cultural gender markers such as clothes, to refuse to listen to a person's preference in pronouns is extremely rude, both with people and dolls. It's not rude to assume at first that someone is the gender they present as, but if that person corrects you - yes, ignoring their preference is rude.

 

lol,totally agree with you

 

Actually, a transvestite is someone (usually male) who dresses as the opposite gender. You're thinking of a transexual (someone who wants to be or has surgery to become the opposite sex). So if you crossdress your doll, your doll is a transvestite.

Really most of the male crossdressing dolls on DoA don't have transexual characters, (in fact I've never seen a single one) the owners just think it's cute or edgey to dress them that way.

 

My character does dress like a girl and has long hair. However that is where it ends. He does not wear make up, does not "manscape" doesn't paint his nails, is not gay, and is by all normal means a "jock". He is supposed to look like a man in a dress, not a man trying to look like a woman. That said I dont get offended when some one mistakes him for a girl. I politely tell them he is male. If they insist he must be a girl, then i strip the doll and flash all his male glory. and if they then insist he is a tranny of some sort, or they try to insult me or the doll, I do get offended.

I also get offended when people tell me that if I wanted something in a dress I should have gotten a girl doll and dresed her as a girl, that it is the same thing. If that was what I wanted then that is what I would have done. A girl doll in a dress, even one with small breasts, feels considerably different than a male doll in a dress.

 

Well, it does kind of annoy me when people mistake my dolls for girls, but understandable, I guess, as most people just assume all dolls are girls for some reason...

But it irritates me to no end when I correct someone, and they blatently ignore what I say and continue calling my boys girls.

...I don't even dress them in anything vaguely feminine.

 

Ah, my apologies then. Serves me right for attempting to respond when hyped up on Nyquil.

In any case however, was just attempting to point out that there are still a multitude of reasons why a person might crossdress and still wish to be referred to as their own original sex. I myself was very adrogynous my first years in high school, short hair, baggyish clothes and to many I was considered a cross-dresser. I was wearing what was comfortable, I certainly did not wish to be referred to as 'sir'. Just using a personal example since it's one I can think up off the top of my head but I'm sure I'm not the only who agrees.
Also as the person above noted it can also be quite irritating to have it argued that a doll is cross-dressing when they certainly aren't even in skirts, dresses or pink. I have a fondness for ruffles but I still like to keep my boys classy, so it results in quite a few frilly "fantasy-Victorian" tops-even so they are always male clothing that I buy for them. While I could see how they could be feminine...it's certainly a rather ugly feminine to me.

But I should probably exit the debate before making such another obvious mistake.

 

I think it's pretty ridiculous for people to get offended. It's not even a prejudice thing, it's just mental programming. You see girl clothes, you think 'girl' first. Unless you're someone who is into a culture (like this one for example!) where there's a lot of cross dressing going on. I think it's adorable when boy dolls are dresse like girls, (or even when they're not!) but if they are dressed in girl's clothing other people will automatically think 'girl'. Most of the time not to be offensive or because they have anything against cross dressing, just because it's the way minds work.

Anyway, male dolls a lot of the time do look pretty female. XD C'mon, guys, it's true. They have soft, girly features often enough. And hey, isn't it fun to surprise people sometimes!? If someone compliments your doll's looks you can say, "yes, HE is adorable, isn't HE?" and WHOA. Minds are blown! O: Just have fun with it. It's a doll hobby. It's not a political statement.

 

I'm going to pretend I didn't read those SERIOUS BUSINESS posts about tranny-ism and just say that you can hardly expect people who don't know anything about eastern androgyny aesthetics to be able to tell the difference between a girl doll and a boy doll, even when they're dressed normally. Now, stick one of those girly-men in a DRESS? LOL. I'd be AMAZED if someone guessed right, to the point of asking if they were joking and it was a funny coincidence that they were right.

Example: I showed my coworker, a perfectly normal 40-something who teaches 7th-grade math, Luts Flood, because I was thinking of buying him eventually. She said, "She's so pretty!" I informed her he's a dude, and she LITERALLY did a bug-eyed double-take. We both lol'd. Seriously, what the heck is the big deal? I've been into anime, manga, and video games since I was three years old, and I still can't tell the difference sometimes.

Also, I like to draw androgynous characters just to see how far I can push it, so it's just a completely moot point for me by now. Anyway, if it bothers you, frigging just don't dress them up in girl clothes or vice versa! I'd do that if I wanted to play a prank on someone! You can't expect someone to know in a LOT of cases. The only ones I wouldn't mistake are the waifiest, girliest girl dolls who ever girled, with long ringlets, a flowy dress, long lashes, and delicate, feminine features - and on the other side of the spectrum, those REALLY obviously manly dolls, like Ark. And even in those cases, I wouldn't put it past someone to make a guy that girly, or a girl that manly. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Just don't expect people to know, and don't get offended when they don't. :P