Do you have a right to feel offended?

I think that if your doll is crossdressing and someone mistakes them for the opposite gender it's okay to correct them. However, I don't see a reason for complaining about it. Generally, I think if someone's going to dress their doll like that they should be aware that people are going to mistake him/her for the opposite gender.

 

*Sighs*

And here I state my hatred for battle of the sexes, and the norms of society. And how i have to [regretebly, and sadly] say that I see your sisters point, and I find it morosely depressing. [I really. REALLY hate gender and gender roles. I just wish we could all be equal and not have expectations put on us, like a feminine boy in a dress OBVIOUSLY screams "female." =_=;]

Do you have a right to feel offended? Yes. You ALWAYS. have a right to feel offended. However instead of getting angry, camly correct people. You can't change the way people view others, or the world. I know correcting people over and over again can get REALLY annoying, but its not fair to jump on someone for making a mistake. =]

 

Well,once someone knows that a doll is a male dressed as a female, if they continue to say things, I would be offended...But honestly if a male doll looks exactly like a female, I wouldn't hold the mistake against anyone.If You are dressing your feminine looking doll in more feminine clothing, what do you expect?

I look at dolls all the time and make the mistake often, especially since I love tinies so much! They look like all children (rather soft and slightly fem) so I have thought "aw isn't she beautiful!" only to find he was a she.

It's nothing to be offended over, you can be frustrated, but in the end if something looks exactly like a girl, you shouldn't be upset if someone can't tell they're a boy.

 

I for one agree with your sister but I will just shrug it off as a subjective opinion and leave it at that!
( I dress my doll the way I like...(that's why it's MY doll) end of story!)

 

It's funny because even though this was started three years ago, I was just telling my mother about this. I showed her Crobidoll Nia, a doll I really want, and she though he was a girl. (Nia doesn't even wear girly clothes, he just has nice lashes). Then I showed her a picture of a doll in a long blonde wig and a pink dress and she also though that was a girl, but the owner had left a nasty message under the image saying that her doll was a BOY not a girl. This owner clearly did her best to make the doll look as much like a girl as possible. I don't think she should get offended if people think that doll is a girl. Some girls dont have much for breasts, it could still be female.

My mom was flummoxed, unable to discern a doll's gender by looking at it, and walked away thinking that doll people are freakin' weirdos. I support dolls of a physical sex that happen to identify as different gender. I don't support its owner bitching someone out, especially a non doll owner like my mother, for making a judgement call based on what her eyes tell her.

So, uh, I agree with your sister. Like.. 100%.

 

Since I last posted in this thread, I actually got a doll that identifies (sort of, weakly, he's more androgynous more than anything) as a boy, but dresses... Well, not in dresses, but in puffy short bloomer shorts and frilly shirts with stockings, complete with a page-boy cut. Like a little prince, or a tomboy princess. You know, right in the middle as far as gender-identification goes, just like his character (and I would use gender-neutral pronouns for him, but they're really... silly-sounding, IMO).

Most people tend to refer to him as a "she". Doll people, non-doll people, they all say that he's a "pretty girl". In fact, the only doll people who don't refer to him as a "she" are people who heard me talk about his character and know that I refer to Peppermint as a boy. I'm not even going to talk about non-doll people, because to them it's a pretty girl through and through, no exceptions, and no questions.

And you know what? That's fine. I dress him like that on purpose, and I don't even bother to correct people. I only wish they didn't yelp and begin near-prostrating in front of me in apology for daring to make the mistake, because seriously guys, yeah I can see that it's an easy mistake to make too. I can only imagine what kind of experiences they had before that would make them react in such a way. (I'm over-exaggerating here, obviously, but I have had people acting so apologetic it sounded as if they insulted the memory of my beloved great-grandma or something like that)

I seriously cannot wrap my mind around someone sticking their boy doll in a frilly dress with the intention of making sure that everyone know he's a boy. Uh, hello? Gender-norms aside (which I don't think will do away any time soon, and even then... You're still going to have to use some kind of a pronoun to refer to the doll, and have 50% of getting it wrong every time), these dolls are pretty androgynous-looking. Their faces are definitely 100% female in a lot of cases, they have curvy bodies and long legs and thin, feminine hands. They look physically female - of course people are going to make the mistake if they see one in a dress with long hair! I think the only exception to this would be someone sticking one of the more masculine Iplehouse men in a dress. But then, I think most viewers would just kind of look at it, all O___o and still politely say "she's so pretty!" because really, it looks like a guy trying to pass off as a girl, and that the polite thing to do (unless they knew the doll and the character before the incident. Then they probably wouldn't).

So, in short, I think feeling offended over something like this is still stupid. And I say this with experience in owning these trap dollies now. I don't even know why you'd feel offended if someone continued to make the mistake, or does it on purpose - annoyed, maybe, but offended? Why add to your stress level?

 

I've never really been that offended by it, myself. I have a girly boy who I sometimes put in girl clothes and I'm totally fine with him being mistaken for a girl because part of the intention is to make him look more like a girl. Its part of his character. He was female in his past life and so he has gender identity issues and sometimes enjoys being a girl again. However it does get a little annoying if I have him dressed in boy clothes and people still mistake him for a girl. lol That I don't quite understand, especially if his chest is showing. Because yes I've had people mistake him for a girl even if his chest was bare. Its just because he has a long wig and that does rather annoy me because I hate how people tend to assume long hair = girl. x_x And so in that case, I think its ok to feel offended especially if you're intending for a very male character.

But as far as crossdressing goes, in real life most crossdressers I know, myself included, actually LIKE being mistaken for the opposite gender. I mean that's kinda what we're aiming for in a way sometimes. Because it means we pulled it off well and in some cases the person wants to be identified as so. Granted I too hate gender stereotypes and I try to go against them as much as I can. But I must admit when someone calls me "sir", I can't help but smile 'cause it means I was able to pull the look off. Its funny too as a lot of people will realize I'm a girl and freak out and apologize up the wazoo, feeling so afraid they've offended me and then I tell them "actually that was just a huge compliment". But it is a bit unfair how males tend to not get that same reaction. They only tend to apologize if its a girl because it seems more "normal" for a girl to dress boy-like than a guy to dress feminine. And I hate that double standard.

But eh my point there is just that I find it odd that a doll owner would get so upset over someone mistaking the gender of their doll if they are purposely dressing up like the other gender. 'Cause I would think the character itself would enjoy it unless they still look really like their original gender. It also confuses other doll owners as one is never really sure what gender the owner is aiming for and you don't want to offend either way. But I don't think its something worth getting all that upset over. If after you've corrected the person and then they go on a rant saying how wrong it is to have the doll dressed that way...then yes you should feel offended because that's another issue entirely right there.

 

Being a doll owner who has several dolls that are more androgyonous and one boy that does dress as a girl I am not offened. Though as one person put I do label that he is boy when posting pics as a clue to people that he is a boy but not because I am offened or anything just making it more obvious because its is hard sometimes even with my most male like boys getting identified as girls so honestly unless someone was really rude about it or went off on some sort of that's wrong speech I would just smile and be glad they noticed my doll at all. I mean really isn't that part of the point too? Being noticed?

 

This entire ordeal reminds me of my real-life ex who refused to wear "American clothing". We live in the USA. He lived in GA. He would wear Middle-Eastern robes. He would wear European dress shirts and festive regalia... If anybody, and I mean anybody gave him a slightly off-sided glance in public, he'd get mean with them. If you don't want the stares and the odd attention, do not do things out of the norm. Don't expect people to understand. We all have our eccentricities, but we have to expect a certain degree of confusion and confrontation from those who do not share the same mindset.

You can be offended all you want to be, but I do not understand why you would be when you know you're doing something out of the ordinary which will warrant a strong response.

((Please note the 'you' I use in this post is a generalized 'you,' and not directly referring to OP, but anybody who would fit this description.))

 

I don't think they have the right to complain, no. Sure, you can grind your teeth and sag "he's actually a boy" but complain and whine about it? No. If your boy doll has long hair, long eyelashes and a pretty pink dress it looks like a girl! Especially for someone wo is'nt in to the hobby.

It's like having your 2 month baby boy wear dress: everyone will assume that he is a girl because they dont know better. Just ignore it. it's just a unecessary thing to get angry about.

 

I think your sister is right. If they're going to dress the male doll up in girl clothes, they should expect for them to be percieved as females. Being effeminate and cross-dressing are two different things. Now, if he was wearing more masculine clothing, but looks feminine, then yea, you could be miffed. But he was wearing girl clothes. You can't really expect someone to call a male in girl clothing a male.

 

I can't see getting offended. A lot of the sculpts are very androgynous at times. Just a few days ago, I was reading a thread and people were speculating whether the preview picture was male or female. Then, it's made even more confusing by some of the choices that people may make for face-ups, clothes, etc. I've also had this happen in reverse to me. When we had a meet-up at the Japanese Friendship Garden, I took two of my DDs. Aya was dressed up in a kimono and very clearly feminine. Saber was dressed up in a Bleach-style Hakama and a passerby thought she was a male. I had more of a laugh about it than getting offended. (picture here if you're interested)

 

Everyone has the right to get offended. Even get offended over what seems to be nothing to get offended over.

 

Uh... I don't see the point in getting offended.
Since I've been in anime/manga/games, cosplay and figure collecting for a while, I kept hearing 'oh, that's a lovely girl you are doing this time / have gotten as figurine' and me go... 'XD Mum/Dad... it's a boy. Again '
Even when my sister was like 'O.o ... Still looks like a girl' I just went 'Yeah, to the untrained eye it might seem that way, but trust me, there are worse traps XD'

I know how often 'I' have been tricked by games and anime and manga characters in thinking it's the other gender, so... Why should I be ticked off if the same happens to others?

It's a different thing if someone would tell me 'OMG this doll looks totally shity girly like that! Do him a favor and put him into some 'real'/manly clothes' that I'd go 'Excuse me, but I doubt it's any of your business. My doll, my choice of clothes.'

That aside: If someone is wearing female clothes and has a pretty face people will draw the conclusion of the 'mainstream' / majority. => Girl.
Same if someone is having a more masculine face and masculine/manly clothes on. => Guy.
So if one thinks it's worth to go offended with a reaction one has deliberatly 'provoked'... Sure, go ahead. It's the right of every individual to react individually and if that's the reaction one considers 'right'... Who am I to say it's not? ;P

 

I can't see the point in getting offender either. At least I don't get offender if someone mistakes my boys as girls. Yue is very feminine and likes to wear kimonos, so it's kinda obvious to me that someone mistakes him for a female. But if someone starts to say something like: ''Dirty transvestite, Poor guy for being dressed up as I girl ect.'', then I maybe get little offended, but hey. That's only their opinion! : D

 

I won't feel offended. To be honest, sometimes, I draw guys that I want to look like girls. So if somebody come and say : Is this a girl ? I will correct him and be pleased (I would have reached my aim). I love sexual ambiguity. I mean, female or male, it doesn't really matter.

I think I would want to kill such a rude and narrow-minded person XD Your reaction is more mature than mine ^^

Maybe it's easier for the "young" generation to accept the idea of a manly girl or (that's more often the case) an effeminate man. When you see effeminate men in anime, in games, in mangas etc, you easily get used to it.
I want to point one thing : I've known people that automatically link a symetric, beautiful figure to something feminine. No, men don't have to have an inelegant rough face !

Concerning people, Lyn is absolutely right. It may be funny to mislead people. And you can hedge one's bets !
I've been raised with a mother who cultivates a manly appearance (when I say "manly", I just mean leather jacket, heavy-duty boots and jeans instead of a dress and cute shoes). I follow her example XD With the terrible lack of curves in our family, my mom and I have often been asking about our gender. I must say that it's kinda disturbing sometimes, depending on the person who asks. But it's a bit my fault. If I don't want people to ask, I just have to dress myself in a womanly way.
Same thing for dolls.

 

I agree to 50 percent with the both of you. I think you both have a good point and I can tell from both sites, because I only know about dolls since september this year. Sometimes it´s not this easy to identify the gender. When I showed the picture of my first to be doll at work, everybody was saying, what a cute girl. When I told them it is a boy, they´re saying he look really girlish. And he was dressed like a boy. So maybe it´s really difficult for outsiders to see the gender.

 

I'm more sexist than I thought I was, I suppose, because when I see a doll in a dress and long hair I instantly assume it's a girl. I know now that that's not true, especially in the ball-jointed doll world, but I still have to ask myself on a regular basis "Is that doll male or female?" Usually folks are pretty cool about it when I ask, but I've yet to speak to a bjd owner face-to-face!

 

Offended? Yeah sure, if you've told people over and over again that your doll is "a", and they keep insisting on "b". It's, at least in my opinion, less of a problem with people not realizing your doll's real gender, and more of a lack of respect that they don't seem to be listening to you. However, I do think that you shouldn't go down someone's throat the first time they don't get your doll's gender right. And if it happens with several people at a meetup or on a website? Walk away and take deep calming breaths, repeating "serenity now, serenity now"....the momentary feeling of wanting to snap will hopefully have passed.

Though I also think it's partially how our society is atm; people certainly didn't back when FDR was a child call him a girl for how he dressed and looked. And if you attended a Scots festival, I'd certainly like to see someone at a caber toss utter the phrase "girls in skirts".....

(Though I go the opposite; I develop a nervous tic over the phrase "tomboy". Though that's for another thread........)

 

I would be offended if some one called it stupid and it would get annoying to repeat its a boy but you have to deal with that if your boy doll dressed girly