Do you have a right to feel offended?

I wouldn't be offended, but like others have said if it is a continual thing by the same person I would be annoyed. It's probably just their personal perception, and for some people it takes some training before they start to distinguish between male and female BJDs. My boyfriend was terrible at guessing genders, but after showing him a ton of sculpts, he's actually quite good (especially after I told him
"When in doubt, guess male" ).

 

I think everyone has the right to be offended and annoyed about whatever they want - but that isn't to say that they're right. Personally, something I have found is that it's so easy to get immersed in this hobby that it's easy to forget what it looks like from the outside.

I remember myself being quite shocked at dolls I would have sworn were female but weren't. But now I can spot it a mile away - what the gender of a doll really is - often without needing to see the chest. But more than that, I don't even question it anymore - effeminate dolls have become a normality. But to beginners and people outside the hobby, it can be quite mind boggling. There will probably be more people that get the gender wrong than those that get it right. There's nothing wrong with that.

In my opinion, doll owners shouldn't get offended if their doll's gender is mistaken, but that's not to say they don't have the right to. However, I'll admit there is a certain something that irritates me, even without girly dolls - when someone mistakes a boy for a girl, is corrected but then continues to insist they are female. I've had conversations like:

A: She's pretty
M: It's actually a boy :P
A: What???
M: I know... but it is a boy.
A: No, it's not! It's a girl!
M: No, it might look like that, but he's just feminine. He has no brests and underneath those close he has male parts.
A: I don't care, that's a girl.
M: It isn't! It has no brests!
A: It's a girl! Look at it, it's wearing a dress! I don't care what you say, it isn't a boy.
M: ASDJIEUFHCIWNHDOWEHOCHFWI *flail headdesk*

Shortened version, but arguments like that go on for a long time, usually with the other person wearing some smug sort of smile like their opinion could move mountains, let alone change the gender of a doll they've only seen one photo of.

Yeah, that kinda bugs me.

 

That is a good advice.
There are dolls that are dificult to distinguish
Don't think it's offensive though if a person say "she" instead of "he". Comes with the territory.
The person usually only saw the picture in the internet. Didn't hold the doll or had any more clues about it than the image he/she is seing.

 

haha i was coming here to post almost exactly this! my dog Rockstar is an adorable little longhaired miniature dachshund & i don't think ANYONE in his two & a half years of life has ever said "aw HE's so cute" upon meeting him lol

maaay have had something to do with the fact that for the first year he had a hot pink collar because damnit, i love hot pink! but then that goes back to the topic of this conversation & that no, of course i wouldn't/shouldn't be offended when people thought he was a girl due to his pink collar. that's just me being selfish & wanting the entire world to be pink.

if you want to dress your male doll in girly clothes & have them portray themselves as effeminate because that's what YOU think is awesome/fun/interesting, then you shouldn't offended if people call him a girl on first sight!

ps, now rockstar's got a very tough blue camouflage-print collar like a proper big man

 

I agree with your sister. I had the same problem when looking at dolls on dA. If it looks like a girl, and is in girl clothing, I just can't accept that it's "supposed to be a boy." *shrug*

 

well.. your sister definitely shows some amount of ignorance, still I agree with her.
I never understod the whole drag thing. In reality, yes.. guys who feel like being girls, best dress drag. But if I wanna have a female looking doll, why don't I just get a female..??

 

i agree with your sister, and i don't see why people would get offended over such. it is perfectly normal that if you dress your boy in girl clothes (note that there are some male sculpts that can easily pass for girls out there) the first guess that people are going to make is that it "obviously" is a girl...unless you tell them otherwise.

 

What if you don't want a "female looking" doll - what if you want a male doll in a skirt?

 

Yes-- and it's even sillier when the person who guessed the wrong gender gets offended at being corrected! "She's pretty." "Thanks, but it's a boy." "Well, *indignant huff* it looks like a girl! It's totally feminine! It has long hair! It's not logical to assume it's a boy! How is anybody supposed to guess that??" [*sound of forehead-veins throbbing*]

I have actually seen this happen, too. It's hilarious-- like it's such a big deal that their Drag Radar is crap, that they feel they have to save face. Or something. I dunno, never second-guess those with short fuses. I mean, Jesus, man, relax, save your blood-pressure... it's just a doll.

Rule One!

This rule has actually led me to mis-guess a lovely girl doll in boy-drag before, but I wasn't offended and nor was her owner. ^^ The law of averages in this hobby still makes it overwhelmingly more successful to just Guess Male First.

Rule Two! They're just NOT the same thing.

 

Seriously, if you want to say something nice and you aren't sure, just compliment the dress.

 

I can see both sides to this story. On one hand a lot of the tiny dolls do look more feminine even without the clothes distinction. At least the ones I've seen generally do. I think it's just unique to the sculpt. My husband couldn't tell the difference between a boy tiny and a girl tiny. I don't think it would offend me.

However, I can see why someone could be offended or at least minimally annoyed. It stems from people just not knowing about the hobby so they make assumptions, I suppose. And yeah, if the doll is wearing a dress people will think it is a girl, because that's the norm in society. The owner just has to expect questions like that. But after being told the doll is male, if the person continues questioning the attire and look of the doll it would be frustrating. And I think at that point they're either being ignorant or rude.

 

Four and a half years running, my dad STILL thinks Amir is female, despite countless reminders that he is NOT. He has long blond hair, yes....but so does my husband and he is anything but girly! I've NEVER dressed Amir in drag. Ever. He wears business suits, dress pants, jeans, tshirts, button ups, tank tops...typical male clothing. Usually, his clothes are so tight there should be NO mistaking that. (we're talking AoD guy here...>.> ) yet it never fails...he's always "that girl" to my dad. What confuses me even more is that my sister's dolls are "her boys" to my dad....even the DZ Megi in the pink wig!


It also frustrates me when a male is not dressed as a female on non-doll people try to argue about the gender. My co-worker (I work in an office and am allowed to have a doll "decorating" my desk) has tried to flat out fight with me over the gender of Hansel, my RingDoll Valo. The guy commented on "her" legs (Hansel was wearing black jeans and a tshirt), I told him Hansel is a guy. and he told me, SO confidently, that I was WRONG! I told him nicely that Hansel is my doll, he's male, I'm sure of it. but he wouldn't drop it and just kept insisting that I was calling a girl doll a guy. Finally, though I tried to ignore him and change the subject, he asked "Does he have a 'thing'?" and I told him yes. to which he replied, "No, he doesn't. No way. That's a girl." -headdesk- I did NOT strip my poor boy (though Hansel wouldn't have minded, he has no sense of modesty). I was done with the ignorance at that point.


I understand that people unfamiliar to BJDs might not be expecting such "pretty" boys, but once corrected, I don't understand the need to argue. Though if you are putting a male doll in typically girl clothes, expect it. It's confusing to people. I wouldn't put a boy in a dress and get mad that he was mistaken for a girl. As a baby my mom dressed me in blue overalls and red and blue tshirts, never frilly dresses or pink clothing, except special occasions. I got mistaken for a boy CONSTANTLY. and when told "Awww, he's just to pretty to be a little boy!" she'd reply "that's because she's not!" and laugh it off and let it go. It's really nothing to get upset over. There are much bigger things to spend time on than that.

 

The first time my mum saw Alex I'd told her prior to their first introduction that he was in fact a male. When I introduced him to her, he was wearing his Dollmore kimono & a mid-length wig and she said: "That's a male? He looks quite feminine." I reassured her, with a quick flash of his white briefs for some reason, that he is a rather masculine doll. I wasn't offended in any way. I love how Alex looks feminine with his wig, and how elegant he looks in his kimono. And I don't really care what others think of him.

 

My cousin is 9 and EVERY single time I show her a male doll, she assumes it's a girl. I always ask her why she thinks that, and sometimes it's the long hair, sometimes it's long eyelashes, and sometimes she says he's just dressed too pretty. I don't think it's too big of a deal. For example, my daughter is 1 year old and is constantly mistaken as a boy because she's still bald. It doesn't matter if she's wearing a dress or if I tell them HER name. So...I just let them know, she's a girl or he's a boy. Because at the end of the day it doesn't matter what they think, they don't have magical gender-changing powers.

 

I think that people are always sensitive when it comes to gender issues, and in a sense this is a gender issue. As humans, we are taught to live in a code (dresses are for women, pants are for men) so that we can make sense of our surroundings. When something disturbs that equilibrium, it brings attention. It is foreign, not right.
Clearly people have a right to do with their dolls whatever they choose, but in making some choices they should expect notice. That does not mean, however, that their choices should be ridiculed or made fun of. We all have the right to respect.
Personally speaking, I am not fond of the androgynous look, but that is my preference. Sometimes when I am looking at a doll with the intent of purchase, I am annoyed that I have to really look to see if it is a male or female body. That, too, is my preference. But that doesn't mean that I am going to be difficult or rude to another person who dresses his/her doll in that fashion. After all, it is a matter of personal taste.
As for offense, if none if given, none should be taken. I see dolls I adore, I see dolls I don't care for. If I see a doll I don't care for, I keep my mouth shut unless specifically asked for my opinion. I think people would be better off doing this more.

 

I don't remember if I told this story, but I've had two instances where I mistook a boy doll for a girl.

The first was before I joined DoA, and really had no idea how many people had these dolls, and if these were a popular thing. I was looking on YouTube for videos of people who owned dolls (not the best place to go, I found, back then), and I came upon someone who had a really beautiful doll. I told them that I liked their doll - I might've said 'she's beautiful', or something like that. The owner was kind, and told me it was actually a boy. Still being completely new to the idea of BJDs, I couldn't wrap my mind around it. I think, if I saw the doll now, I would, but back then it was really new.

I also had a semi-embarrassing event happen at the meet I went to. They had a Puki, and I completely mistook it for a girl. They didn't really correct me, and I only found out when someone else went up to them, and the owner referred to it as a 'he'. I was really embarrassed; I didn't know if I should apologize for my mishap, but I did remember it for the remainder of the time.

But doll owners are going to know their dolls best. You might know your doll is a boy, but be aware that it might look like a girl to others. I think it's kind of silly to go insisting that someone's doll is a girl rather than a boy if you're told by the owner it is, in fact, a boy. Why the heck would you try to debate that? Yes, it can easily look like a girl to most people, but why are you giving me a lecture on that fact?

I'm betting he's just teasing you. He might think the reaction you give to that is humorous, and might enjoy poking fun at you. I think a lot of families do that to one another from time to time, or they keep it as a running joke. True, it can be kind of tiring, though.

 

My Resinsoul Long has a factory faceup (pretty androgynous, but it doesn't look like makeup), short hair, and wears a t-shirt and plaid pants, and those of my coworkers who didn't see the nude box-opening pics of him first often think he's female. Does it offend me? No. I think it's funny. Then again, I think it's funny when my pre-op ftm friend gets mistaken for a girl because to my mind he registers as male.

 

I'm sorry, but your sister is right. Dress = girl for just about everybody who's not familiar with either drag or the Jpop fascination with guys in long pretty dresses. It's something that's been put in their heads more or less since birth and you shouldn't expect them to throw it out the window just because it's your doll and you really, really prefer people to use "he" and "him."

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge drag fan, and I've always kind of wanted a doll modeled on Ongina, my favorite drag performer. But the thing is, in drag tradition, it's actually correct to use "she" and "her" when the performers are in costume. So even if the doll was portraying someone in drag, I would still use feminine gender pronouns to refer to it if it was wearing a dress at the time.

 

It's fine for them to make the mistake, but once they've been politely corrected as to what the doll's gender is, that should be the end of the discussion. So yes, I would expect them to then refer to the doll in the way that I refer to the doll. People who continue to insist the doll is female or can't be male or on the reverse, can't be female because of the short hair and muscles are being assholes.

 

"Well shouldn't they expect that? Kinda comes with the territory? They knew what people would say and ask and if it's so annoying why do it at all? If they choose to make their doll all feminine and stuff they knew what they're getting into, they haven no right to complain and get all up tight!"

yup, exactly what i was thinking. how are people going to know anything about your character anyway.