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Do you have a right to feel offended?

Nov 15, 2008

    1. it doesnt bother me that my friends and my family refer to my boy as very girly,they say bit hes got long hair,and i say yes,boys are allowed to have long hair,!!i really like femine boy style,when you look at films and games like final fantasy they all have very feminine faces,yet they yeild swords and wear cool clothes,its just the whole anime style,
      i dont care i know my boy is really a boy no matter how girlie he looks,i can always prove it too!!!simply show him off naked if they dont believe you
       
    2. Yeah. It's not really maturity.

      My little sister's toddler pictures are almost indistinguishable from my big brother's toddler pictures. Minus when my mother went nuts and decked her out in pink. Though one time she was decked out in pink and this old man still called her a boy! :?

      >_> People get confused...
       

    3. This is what I was taught also, and It does seem it doesn't apply to dolls, because the owner is in charge of the dolls identity/ sexuality/ etc... they decide what gender the doll is to be called by and not just by the dolls appearance as is expected with living crossdressers.

      To be honest I kinda get erked when doll owners get mad at me for calling their crossdressing male a girl/woman, because I'm so accustomed to doing it for real crossdressers and not being scolded.
      You make your doll "want to dress like a girl" but your doll "does not want to be mistaken for a girl" and that is beyond reasonable expectations.

      The only time I think the person has a right to be offended is if the doll is not crossdressed in any way and is still referred to be the opposite gender.
      For example: a boy/man wearing a non flamboyant suit with short hair and masculine face-up being referred to as female, one has the right to be offended, just because it's a doll doesn't make it female, but the opposite is also true, though less frequent.
       
    4. Wow, I just now read this and... :evil:
      Be careful what you say, because that offended me because I DO like yaoi very much but I am not a "sick rabid yaoi fangirl" as you put it. Everyone has the right to like something and not everyone who likes yaoi are crazy fangirls.
       
    5. Okay, I may be off base because I'm not friends with any "out" cross-dressers, but isn't it true that not everybody is trying to "pass"? When I've been cross-dressing myself, while I would think it was a compliment to be mistaken for a boy, I also wouldn't be bothered at all by people talking to/about me as "she," because I'm...well...not a male. I think there is a difference between drag queens, who, even if they're not gender dysphoric, have a female persona, and transvestites overall (being maybe the overarching category into which drag queens...and drag kings?...fall) which may include people who prefer to be known/referred to by their biological gender despite the fact that the kind of clothes they like to wear are usually the other sex's. I guess I'm basing this thought in part on what I've gathered of Eddie Izzard's position--there he stands, a skirt!boi on stage, and he doesn't seem to want to be called "she" at all. But again, maybe I'm misunderstanding, since this isn't something I've discussed with friends who would have a personal opinion.

      Also, the whole walks-like-a-duck thing can lead you astray. I knew someone who was introduced to me as a boy. I'd known about this friend-of-a-friend for some time before I met him, and it was a bit surprising to find that in addition to being a genetic female (which I knew), he was wearing a short skirt and makeup. So should I have gone against my previous information and referred to him as "her"? Uh, no. Could I have been forgiven if I did so unknowingly? Hopefully. And to draw this back to the original question, if I had, when corrected, persisted in calling him a girl, would I have been a giant jerkface? Absolutely.

      And that's what I feel about this issue: that people can have an understandable reaction to the outrรฉ without being rude. People with skirt!bois should be tolerant of the moogles, yes. They're engaging in a pretty weird style, and not everybody gets it. But if people proceed to be jerks about it, the owners of the skirt!bois have just as much right to be offended and (within reason) express that feeling of offense, as anybody else does when someone's rude. Earlier in this thread, the "you paid how much for a doll?" question was brought up, and I feel much the same: people who ask the question once are demonstrating a reasonable response based on their culture and personal expectations. But if someone keeps badgering you about it, it's okay by me if you tell them they're being a jerk and you'd appreciate it if they dropped the subject. Just because you like something that's unusual in your culture doesn't mean you've given up your right to be treated with respect.
       
    6. I work in a neighborhood that has a large homosexual population, including cross-dressers and transgenders. What they like to be called is very highly dependent on their own personal preferences. Most of my coworkers call each other "she" and "queen" and "girl," even though they never cross-dress. But I have had other lesbian coworkers who didn't want to be called "he" even though they dressed as men. They still identified as women, but women who dressed as men.

      Exactly. However, I always try to give someone the benefit of the doubt, especially if I know they have pretty set biases against cross-dressing and similar things. I can respect where someone's coming from (social customs, religious dogma, etc.), even if I don't like their opinion. If they persist in being ignorant about it, then sure they're being rude.
       
    7. Yes your right, playing dress up is not the same as making an attempt to have yourself identified as another gender, it's a matter of intention. someone wearing the clothing of the opposite gender just for fun is not in the same mindset as an individual who is making an honest attempt to be recognized as the opposite gender. If I made the assumption that every man in a dress actually desires to be identified as a male, it would be very upsetting/ distressing to those who don't.
      If your a man in a dress I'm not going to walk up to you and say "Hey man, how's it hanging?" and try to pal around with him like he's just one of the boys, because I would not want to act like an a$$ and/ or make him feel like a fool for making his attempt to have others see him the way he feels towards himself.
      QFE
      That is exactly how I feel about it.
       
    8. I really don't think people who own girly dolls have the right to get upset if someone mistakes their doll for a girl. Now if the person keeps insisting it's a girl after they've been told it's a boy, then they have the right to be offended.

      I have two girly boys and I'm just used to people calling them girls. If it's someone on DoA, deviantArt, Live Journal or something like that I correct them politely. If it's someone I meet while out taking pictures I just don't even usually bother correcting them. Why wouldn't they expect my doll with makeup, long hair and a big poofy dress to be a girl?
       
    9. O.O

      My family says my doll is 'Gender Confused'.

      m: Do you like his new outfit?
      t(Them): ITS A HIM?
      m: YES!
      t: Thats gunna be one totoally gender cnofused doll!

      Now they call him G-C T.T
       
    10. Its a fact of life that most male BJDs look like girls. I don't know why they do this, personally...I guess its that whole bishounen aspect of it, that dolls are meant to be fragile and gentle things. I have corrected just about everybody that I have shown Souldoll Killian to, and none of them have insisted that he was a girl or gay or anything...I just explained that it was common for the boy BJDs to look that way. they softened up a lot when I told them that a wig/clothes change and a different faceup would mostly clear the girl mess up. I think that owners of effeminate male BJD should always be prepared to inform people of that fact, and as it may be a little tedious, if your boy looks like a girl, people are going to think it is a girl. and remember, a lot of times, the person who made the mistake in the first place is going to feel like an idiot, and they may try to cover their embarrassment by being a jerk. just tell them, ''he is, without a doubt, a boy, seeing as he has no breasts, and he is ANATOMICALLY CORRECT. check the website I got him from, he is listed as a BOY.'' thatll usually shut them up. if they're being holes about it, then maybe they don't even deserve to discuss over your doll.
       
    11. Oh, I wanted to add, in rebuttal of those who say that it's certain owners' fault for making it impossible to tell that the doll is male that while there are certainly cases where that's true, I have also borne witness to my sister's doll in a very low-cut sweater (you really can see his muscly little pecs) being mistaken for a girl. So I can fully believe the people who say their short-haired suit-wearing guys get called girls too.
       
    12. Civilians are usually going to assume dolls are girls at first...but having pecs instead of breasts isn't always a marker of gender either, since there are quite a few girl bodies out there with smaller breasts and you can't tell under a top.

      I can see why people who dress their boys in suits would feel annoyed, but I can't see why people who dress their boys in dresses would feel annoyed.
       
    13. In terms of the general public assuming that a lot of male dolls are female, regardless of whether they're dressed in a dress or not, is because in a lot of parts of the west...we've just never had many male dolls in society?

      I remember reading several times here on the board itself that people loved male BJDs and were excited about them because there was such a lack of a variety of male dolls when they were younger. It's a "newer" thing and it's exciting!

      Perhaps a lot of people outside the hobby have this experience too, and just haven't had the immersion needed to adjust? It's just a random thought ^^
       
    14. I noticed this same thing in an Anime, a boy who is drawn to look like a girl, dresses like a girl, talks in a girls voice, yet insists on correcting everyone who calls him a girl. Drives me bonkers since if he actually had gender dysphoria he'd be a crying mess everytime someone didn't accept 'her' as a girl.
       
    15. 'Civilians' will usually mistake Seiji and Vaughn as girls,(though not Vance) but I mean compared to western standards of masculinity, they ARE very feminine. They have young feminine faces and long hair. I don't dress them in dresses or anything but in our culture girls wear shirts/pants every day and many of them are flat chested. If someone says to me "oh she's so pretty!" I just say thanks ^_^

      As for people who dress their boys in dresses or overtly feminine clothing, makeup, jewelry, etc...I don't see why they'd get mad at someone mistaking the doll as a girl.
       
    16. That wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. My friend had one of her male dolls mistaken for a girl despite being dressed as a boy, and I think it was for the reason you mentioned. It's almost automatic to equate dolls and female to some people, since that's what they've been the most exposed to.
       
    17. WHOA! I think you made a lot of enemies with just those two sentences is that a record? :lol: But seriously think before your fingers start to type I know I've made some offending biased posts in the debate when I was a younger member, everyone has at some point, but never something like this.

      Anywho back on topic! I simply don't comment in galleries where the owner has not clearly stated the sex of the doll and I am unsure. I think doll owners should state the gender if it could easily be mistaken for the opposite sex but if they have not then I'm sorry people are going to ask. Now, if you have stated that it is indeed a boy/girl and someone says, "no that's a girl/boy" then you have every right to well for lack of a better statement "duke it out with them". ;)
       
    18. I see this issue the same way I see the capitalization of my screen name, even if it is a weird comparison. I prefer it to be uncapitalized, however I understand that in my culture its standard for names to be capitalized and as I'm the one that's chosen to do something out of the norm I don't get upset with people who do capitalize the r.

      Owners who dress their boys in girls clothing and accessories really shouldn't be surprised that people mistake their dolls for girls, certainly not when more masculine looking dolls are also mistaken. I can see owners of dolls who look like males getting annoyed when people constantly think their doll is female, it bothers me on occasion as well. But while I feel that the owners of girly boys have the right to be upset about their dolls mistaken gender, I find it rather silly that they would be. They are the ones that chose to put that doll in the clothing they did and they should be willing to deal with the results of that.

      Now, if someone who has been corrected about your dolls gender keeps rudely insisting that they are in fact the opposite gender I can see any owner getting annoyed by that.
       
    19. i have had the same problems ill always start to type something like "she's so cute! i love the way you dressed her!" and then ill worry about them being offended if its a boy so i either dont comment at all or say "i love the way you dressed your doll"
       

    20. Yep I do it a lot now it's a good way to avoid the classic, "my doll is a boy ;_;" line. XD