Do you have a right to feel offended?

i assume you mean the stereotyping bJD owners thread, ive not checked their later posts but i dont get that impression from the OP

thats not liking it because its someone assuming something about you which is false. and to 'normal' people gothic is seen as more derogatory/weird/funny (id be hard pressed to find someone labelling me as a goth saying it in a positive way. though id be hard pressed to find anyone who labels people at all a nice person) the other is someone calling gay people disgusting. unless ive missed something, which i may have

 

I am with the sister 100%.

I AM part of the doll community, but I'll confuse girls and boys pretty easily. Why? Because the boy molds can get pretty androgynous. Throw a skirt on an androgynous mold, and I'm lost.

But that happens in real life for me too. I see a pretty boy in a skirt, I'll probably think they're a girl.

It's not that I don't accept people crossing over that "normal" line, it's just that most people DON'T, so I don't expect it or think about it right away.

 

Actually, several people did comment on the goth thing and there was a discussion about it if you go back and read the thread. Plus the OP did not say that being goth was disgusting--people have every right to be upset by what Mask The End said. She doesn't have to like yaoi or effeminate male dolls, but her complete lack of respect and nasty attitude towards those that do was absolutely uncalled for.

 

I did find MaskTheEnd's comment offenseive. Why? Because I do have an effemnate male doll. He is homosexual--if dolls have a homosexuality, is say this because the character on which he is based is homosexual. And atop that, I, myself, am a homosexual.

Jsut becuase you find "gay" to mean "disgusting", such opinions are highly, highly offensive not only to people in the LGBT community but also those that are supportive. I do not refer to heretrosexuality as disgusting. Please, learn respect! I quote Thumper from Bambi as I say, "If you can't say anything nice, then it's better not to say anything at all."

Slightly OT, yes, but...

*steps off her soap box*

 

kinda old, meh meh meh, but thought i'd add my little bit to this too. just incase they are still looking at the thread,

i have one boy doll, who is very much a straight guy, very masculine, doesn't cross dress or even close to cross dress, won't wear long hair, or anything like that. and is 150% straight. i say this cause well not only is he straight he's homophobic. VERY HOMOPHOBIC.

and I AM A RABID YAOI FANGIRL and proud of it.

i like him cause he is the minority even in my resin family, and it's fun for his gay little brother and his boyfreind to pick on him and make him uncomfortable with their gayness.

and much like you he also states his dislike for gayness in very rude, and inflamtory ways, which always gets him in trouble with someone. either his chicky refusing him any company till he says sorry or his brother and his boyfreind trying to do "gay" things to him.

also for the op, if your doll is dressed like a girl is silly to be offended if someone says they thought it was a girl or called it a girl :/ it has nothing to do with anything against gays or anything like that when they say, it's just first thing to come to mind for almost everyone! is long hair/skirt/eyeliner, it's a girl.

i don't even get offened when people argue with me that my boy is a girl after i drop his drawers. or telling me that one of my boys is an ugly girl and my other boy is a pretty girl. when they are in the buff. :/ yes this has happened. i laughed and bought the man another drink. annoying as it is. it isn't offensive.

 

I wonder about MasktheEnd--s/he hasn't replied since 16Nov on page 3--Did this person purposely make those inflammatory remarks just see how much fuss could be caused?

 

Please do pick out something in the thread on stereotypes which says, "I think goths are disgusting. People who dress like goths and act like goths are sick rabid trend-followers." I would like to see how the what MastTheEnd said is comparable to that thread.

In the end, that thread on stereotypes is about being labeled something you are not regardless of the positive or negative connotations of the label. It's like if you tell someone you own these dolls that cost $600 and they immediately judge you as having filthy rich parents. Many would get offended by it even though there's nothing wrong with being rich. It's just the immediate snap judgment someone makes that can be annoying. Like when redheads are stereotyped to be fiery-tempered or all Chinese must be fantastic with maths. Nothing wrong with those things, but people still take offense. Basically, no one likes to be slotted into a set category based on surface appearance (and sometimes, not even that).

 

I... have to say how I'm pretty disturbed at how a number of the replies talk about flashing their doll's boybits (some even in an eager manner) in trying to convince others on their doll's gender when someone refuses to believe. Although I don't really think my dolls are living people, flashing their penis to a stranger or any other person is the last think I'd do (unless it's another bjd doll owner and they request to see it). I mean, if someone refuses to believe beyond my words, then that's fine. I'll just stop talking.

 

Well I don't have any male dolls wearing skirts, but they've still been called girls oh so many times.
That annoys the hell out of me.
I guess I sometimes understand it with my Ducan since he has such a fair face and could easily be mistaken for female, but when people mistake my Hound for a female.
Now that's over the top.
His wig is long, yes. But males have long hair too in todays society + the Hound really has a masculine face, and his face-up is for me hard to be mistaken for a girl.

When it's outsiders that see girly boys and mistake them for girls. I think it's because everyone grew up and knew about Barbie.
10.000 females and one damn dude to rule them all.

 

I dressed my MSD boy in girl stuff a few times, just for the kicks. His character is totally straight, and he even has a girl friend. And when people confuse him for a girl [when he's wearing his usually casual-boy- stuff], I politely correct them. No harm done. Because honestly, I get confused when seeing girl-boy's in drag too.
BUT! My 70cm...I don't dress him in "girly" or put him in skirts or anything like that. Like my MSD, if people mistake him for a girl, I let it go. However, it does bother me just a little when I've got him wearing an open chested vest [clearly showing off his man-chest haha] and people still call him a girl. Other than that, I take no offense.
So when you're flaunting your boy doll in a skirt or a dress, no matter the character, you should expect people outside the hobby to assume that it's a girl. No big deal.

 

I spent the first four years of my son's life telling people politely, "He's not a she", so I'd have developed quite a sense of humor about it.

But I've got to come down with your friend on this one... dress him in a dress and people are going to assume that's a girl unless you want to put 5 o'clock shadow on him too.

As far as offended goes, it's a dolly for god's sake it doesnt really have gender or feelings.

 

Yesterday I had same conversation as OP, only difference is that it was with my mother, not sister. I just send her several pictured of dolls. They were not in dresses thou.
I dont feel offended, actually, but I cant say I was happy that mom criticised their looks.
So I just wont talk to her about such things, to avoid further misunrestandings.
But I think people have right be feel offended, since they are free to feel what they feel. On the other hand, they shouldnt be angry with those, who do not understand specifics of their hobbies.

 

If you dress your dollie in a skirt, people are going to immediately call it "her". The face sculpts do tend to lean towards the very feminine, and with the trend of longer hair, as well as the general Western thought that dolls are girls, it's an innocent mistake to make.

I suppose everyone always has a right to be offended and upset, but to me...I dunno. I feel like if you have a feminine-looking doll, you should expect to have it called female. What gets rude and annoying is when, after telling someone "No, my doll is a he", they continue to insist that it's a female, even after you pull his pants down to prove it.

 

To be honest. I agree with your sister. People can dress their dolls however they want but they should be prepared to get that; it comes with the territory. At times it is hard for me to know if dolls are male or female, and if it is a male dressed as a female, people are going to think it is a female.
I do think however that if they keep calling her a him, that you can be offended because they're just not listening to you.

 

Well...

If you dress your androgynous doll in a feminine manner people will assume it is a girl. If you dress your somewhat more masculine doll (but still pretty) in a dress people will still assume it is a girl. This is not something which should be taken personally, it is not an attack on you as a human being, and your doll despite having oodles of personality is not going to be "hurt" by someone's comments because it has no true emotion.

Now if someone knows that your doll is male but insists on calling them a girl or what have you, then why get upset? It's their fault if they refuse to accept anything beyond the norm, and in the end that's their loss. You love your dolly and he gives you comfort so don't worry what anyone says, in the end it's about you and your boy

~Gio

 

the fashion now for guys in the northeast asia is "bishounen" beautiful guys...
its even in Japanese,korean and chinese drama movies...
im not surprise...out with the manly "brute,muscle man" in with the "girly,sensitive man"...after all guys arent much different from girls..is there?

as for my dolls...my first doll i brought a DOT Lahoo..i thought he was a girl,untill a week later after i paid..
and he was the only guy doll i have...or should i say ..by mistake

 

That's possible - the remarks are just so over-the-top IGNORANT (not only of what it means to be a caring human being but of what exists in the doll world) as to be ridiculous. Ugh.

On the topic at hand: the OP asked "do you have a right to feel offended?" Well of course you do. You have a right to feel whatever you like (even the ignorant hatemonger mentioned above has that right). But you shouldn't be surprised by people's reactions.

Shakespeare wrote "Clothes make the man." Many of his plays dealt with exactly that - how easy it was to confuse others by dressing differently or as a different gender. Shakespeare was incredibly observant and perceptive of human nature - and all these centuries later, human nature isn't much different than it was then. As others have said, we must of necessity work from our first impressions. As androgynous as most of our dolls' faces are, it's easy enough to get confused. Put him in a dress and, well, we see "female."

It's just the way our brains work.

 

Conversely to the topic of seeing the male dolls in a dress and having an outside viewer think they're female... I had an experience just this weekend where I visited some friends I haven't seen in a long time and took my dolls along. Shortly before going to their house, I switched my girl doll into jeans and a tank top from her frilly "princess" dress. My friends looked over the dolls, checked out how they were customizable, played around with them, the usual. The next day, one of my friends commented while holding Esa, "I just realized that this one's a girl..." All three have long hair, all three were dressed similarly, and I can see how she could have made the mistake (the tank top was loose so her figure wasn't especially obvious). I wasn't offended by the comment at all, and not sure how I possibly could have been.

 

My friends and I volley back and forth on this matter. They can get quite irritated/offended when their dolls are mistaken for girls. Me it doesn't even effect me. I suppose I choose to be upset more by what the comment's reference is to. October my el gets it worst of all, even tho he doesnt' wear "girly" clothes except a fer coat and thats a very new aquisition. He does have longer hair but a softer faceup than most el's. When I hear people say "Oh shes just lovely!" Or "What a beautiful doll, isn't she beautiful?!" I don't focus on the fact they thought he was a girl. I focus on the positive, even when people tell me they are creepy mostly I laugh it off. I'm secure enough to know, my boy is a boy.

When you have a doll in what would be considered "traditionaly girly" clothes or colors. aka pink, dresses, ruffles. Then I think you need to expect that errors will be made, its just standard assumptions. A new baby in a pink jumper. will be assumed to be a girl. In blue a Boy... in yellow.. watch people play the game of trying not to offend parents. Seriously its hilarious.

I think maybe it was hirati perhaps who said in a faq: Why does your doll look like a girl then? A)Well thats asian doll asthetics for you.

 

I'm with the sister on this one. Most sculpts are androgynous enough that I've seen males and females swapped with nothing more than a body change. Even after 3 years admiring ABJDs, when I'm looking at pictures occassionally I'm still confused--even for molds that I'm familiar with. Is this person crossdressing the doll, or did this person just want to take the mold in a different direction because it's features suited a character of the opposite gender in their opinion? I've even seen Hound made into a female doll, so there is no hard and fast rule about any sculpt. As a result, I have to look at the body shape to decide the gender once in a while. And I try not to use any gender specific pronouns if I just can't tell.

Since my boy's default faceup included 5 o'clock shadow (and he's only dressed as a boy and completely straight on top of that), I don't have the experience of him being mistaken for female. I'd just giggle if someone made that mistake anyhow. But for many doll owners, dolls that are obviously male inside that hobby are mistaken for female by well meaning onlookers. If you want to take an already pretty doll and dress it in pink frills, what do you expect people to think? Follow your bliss, but know people will think he is a girl. "What a pretty girl," is a compliment anyhow. If they said, "What an ugly girl," then the owner would have every right to get offended.