Do you have a right to feel offended?

Another interesting example of gender confusion based on visual signals is the Saturday Night Live skit "It's Pat" (and the movie based on the same character).

And you thought having your doll confused for the opposite sex was annoying..

LM

 

I myself hate how strongly gender roles affect society as well, ESPECIALLY in advertisements. I believe people should be able to wear whatever they want, if a guy wants to dress pretty in womens clothes, fine with me, whatever floats your boat.

However, I don't think it is fair to get angry at an individual for assuming your doll is a girl because he is wearing a dress. If they KNOW already that it is a boy and they keep calling it a girl instead, well then that's another story, but if they genuinely thought it was a girl, I don't think it is a cause for anger.

Maybe men do commonly wear dresses or clothing that resemble dresses in other places, but here in America, dresses were originally made solely for women so I don't think it would be wrong to make this assumption. When I first started this hobby, I had a very difficult time distinguishing some of the boys from girls, and the only way I could tell was by what they wore. So many of the male molds have such feminine features. Again, I have no problem with this, I think they are beautiful. But if a person who knows little or nothing about bjds walks up to a feminine looking doll that is wearing a dress then I don't blame them for thinking so, I would just kindly correct them and get over it.

 

Yes, you (general you) should and you can wear whatever you want or have your doll wear whatever you want, but I think people should accept that the rest of the planet isn't going to necessarily go along with it and nor should they have to. Living in the world is all about striking a balance between who you are and what you have to do to get along with your neighbours. You shouldn't have to suppress yourself, but neither should you disregard the people you will have to live and work alongside. It's a balance that I think some people forget about when they're dressing a doll...and then they get upset when someone just can't accept that the doll dressed in the sweet pink school uniform and pearls is a boy.

 

At this point I don't get offended personally. One of my dolls used to wear a long purple wig and always had a skirt or something on. He still gets called a girl becase he wears pink and he's on a modded girl body. I expect it sometimes.

However when they're kind of being rude about it I'll back myself up and explain. My biggest issue is when my manlier doll gets called a girl. Honestly. He had a short wig on, has a more masculine faceup, was wearing jeans, boots, and a shirt that was open to expose his chest.

I think it's sometimes that in general seeing a doll you don't expect a boy and because we have set ideas that boys are like this and girls are like this people who aren't used to seeing the opposite don't generally associate it the way the owner of a boy BJD that happens to be girly would associate it.

That and some BJDs have a slightly feminine sculpt so they wouldn't neccesarily know to look for a female chest or not.

I just correct them politely now and move on.

 

I think people tend to forget what it is they're really discussing. Clothing, when it comes down to it, is nothing more than cloth created to basically help protect the body. Since the beginning of time, Society has imposed all these little structures on us telling us what is acceptable and unacceptable, normal and strange, wrong and right. We forget that what we're dealing with here is just pieces of cloth and material. It does not have a gender. I personally like the idea of a little gender role reversal, so to speak. The idea of a girl only being allowed to act and look "feminine" and a boy only being allowed to act and look "masculine" and anyone who does otherwise must be insane, is controlling and close-minded. Unfortunately, its what people have been taught to believe since forever. However, this doesn't make it right. Doll or human, most of us need to learn to be a bit more accepting towards new ideas. Gender is only a word in my opinion.

 

I like to think of it as being a 'parent' to your doll, and you've accepted that your 'son' is a crossdresser (it sounds a little Jerry Springer, or Maury, I know, but...)

Getting weird looks is something you should be prepared in advance to get. Not everyone understands crossdressing as a whole, and a lot of the time, it's easier to tell if a real person is a crossdresser, rather than a doll. And I'd be prepared for people to say "Oh, she's so beautiful..." and have to correct them. And I feel that I have no real right to get angry (though it's natural if I did) at these people, because I made the decision to put them in girl's clothes, because it's something I should've prepared myself for.

But sure, natrual annoyance at telling so MANY people the same thing's sure to grind your gears, but be patient - as long as you don't keep reminding the same person.

And people fear, or hate, things they don't understand. Take the proactive role in explaining why your 'child' is the way they are.

 

I agree with the sister completely.

I can think of times I get upset when I see babies, children and even adults and cannot tell if they are male or female to save my life!

So, yes, when it IS babies, children OR dolls, I question the parents, because what do they want people to think? Is it their intention to confuse? Are they intentionally going for a Unisex or Sexless look? And if so, WHY?

Dolls on one hand: there are some people that confuse the rest of us as to what gender they are, then to top it off they give them these foreign names like Sakarandu or Hokonalei (which I just made up).

So, when people ask about their sexless doll I suppose the proper response would be: "yes, your doll looks great"

 

There's a story floating around called Baby X it may even be on the internet. It's about a child who's parents bring them up to not have a gender and everyone like other parents get really annoyed. But it explains why it was done and pretty much what you are confused about. (sorry that was a bit non doll related)

But yeah I just except my stuff as things now. Like if someone says to me oh you character she looks nice when it's a he. If he looks questionable to the average jo I just nod and smile.

 

This is a very interesting topic. It's on my mind when I look at the stunning pictures around. I agree with most in here, if you dress a guy like a girl then he will be mistaken for one, especially in the beautiful world of dolls. I have no problem with it, as a lot of them are very stunning. But from the average Joe, who has probably never even seen a real life crossdresser, you need to expect "OMGZ it's a gurl" responses.

Although preferable I like my men manly and my girls girly but it's nice to see the spice of life.

 

While it's true that clothing is just cloth and anyone should be able to wear whatever they want, if a guy dresses like a girl some people are going to think he is, or that he wants to be.

Society is so confusing these days, and it's hard to tell if a person is a drag queen, transvestite or just likes the clothes. Nothing is wrong with any of these, but if they dress like a convincing girl, I'm going to use female pronouns for them until they correct me. (and likewise for girls dressing as men)

Many male dolls are so androgenous that it should not be surprising if someone confuses them for a girl when they're wearing a frilly skirt and stockings. That's just how it's going to be.

 

I think people have the right to feel offended, but I wouldn't feel that way...
I mean, if I put a dress in a boy, Its kinda normal that some people will think its a girl, right?

It only bothers me when someone looks at a girly boy and say something like "eeew, thats gross"
... thats not nice >_>

 

Exactly. Or a girl doll dressed like a boy might be mistaken for a boy. It's nothing to get offended over unless the person gets hostile or rude over it.

 

My opinion is that when you have a girly boy you're gonna have to expect people to assume they are female. I think that when it's ok to get offended, atleast I do, is when you state that they are a boy and go through the whole 'no it's not' 'Yes he is' process they still intentionally call them a girl. I don't openly freak out on the person but I am still miffed a bit. If they do it on accident then it's fine. Like my photography/graphic arts teacher used to say 'her'/'she' but then correct herself and apologized so it wasn't that big a deal.

 

Personally, if people mistaking the gender of your doll bothers you that much, then you probably shouldn't be showing him/her around to begin with. Not saying that having a boyish-looking girl or a feminine-looking guy is anything to be ashamed of (heck no), but there are peeps out there who forget they're living in an ever-changing world--they will say crap.

 

Honestly, if there is no mean intent behind it, you have no right to be offended. Not everyone knows about BJDs and the INTRICATE details that separate females and males... because honestly, if it wasn't for seeing the naked body, you can't tell because some males dolls are very femmy looking. And then if you go and dress that doll as a girl, how can you expected it to be called anything but?

Heck, people take some female heads and put them on male bodies... and they expect you to KNOW your character is a boy?

I was at a meet and thought a girl doll was a boy because she was dressed in a kimono type thing with shortish hair. She looked like a boy to me... I don't know if the owner was offended but I hope not. It was an honest mistake.

 

I agree with your sister, but I also think.. well.. how many truly MANLY sculpts are there? You can't say something is obviously manly because most boy dolls I see arent even if they're dressed 'male'. Even if the doll is dressed to be 'manly', the faces are usually pretty slim, smoothed, and feminine- This is the aesthetic, but non-doll people can't be expected to recognize things they know nothing about.

Expecting everyone to be knowledgable and respectful of your hobby or whatever is pretty ignorant. People will be people, some people lack tact and respect, that is how life is. Sad, but true.

 

First off, i must comment on this, even though it's been a few monthes since it was posted...

I think MasktheEnd is doing a TON of assuming. I think she is assuming that all people are posing their dolls as homsexuals, out of the yaoi fandom idea, instead of the fact that there are many who make their dolls gay out of a personal desire to be supportive, or because the subject hits close to home. I have three gay doll characters. Mykal and Angel are Lovers. I made them gay, because I myself am a gay man. I wanted some characters in my doll family to reflect my own lifestyle, and to show that part of me. Arachne, is a Lesbian. I actually didn't plan that, it just sort of happened over time, and i wrote her to become gay after a number of failed relationships. I think the only really disgusting thing is when people make harsh statements about how other people have fun with this hobby. I'm not into Yaoi, (hell, i didn't even know what it WAS till about two years ago) and i'm most definatley not a fan girl. (being that my gender would prevent that....)

Try to do a little less assuming, and a little more soul searching. There has to be some serious reasons why you hate this so much, and i think it has little to do with the actual dolls.

Although, to the people who get so upset and annoyed when someone calls your near-crossdressing doll the wrong gender....If someone compliments your boy doll, who is practically dressed like a girl, can't you just say thank you? You were just complimented. It's alot more rude for you to go off on a tangent about your doll's proper gender, when the proper response should be to politely say thank you for the kind comment. (obviously this does not apply to the situations where someone is harsh or nasty) I've been to doll meets, and seen a stranger come up to people and say "Wow, she's really pretty!" only to have the doll owner glare at the person, and say "Um, he's a BOY, not a girl." To me, that seems alot more rude than anything the person did. Hell, Mykal constantly gets mistaken as a girl, and he never wears pink, or anything remotely 'girly'. He's a goth boy, with big boots, and short, spiky hair. I just usually say thanks, and leave it at that.

 

Personally, I'm in complete agreement with the sister. If a person deliberately dresses their male doll as a female, they have no right to get offended if their doll's gender is mistaken.

No, let me correct that. They have the right to get offended. They don't have the right to yell at or rudely correct the person making what would only be a natural mistake. Doing that makes them the rude ones and I'd say they'd need to sit in a corner for a time-out if they're going to react in such a childish manner.

My one doll, Puck, gets mistaken for a girl all the time when I take him to meetups. He's a minifee Shiwoo elf on an activeline body. If anyone has ever seen the activeline bodies, they're extremely ripped. No way possible for anyone to mistake it for a female body while unclothed (it doesn't match his face very well to be honest, but I love the posing so he's keeping it). Puck has a very pretty, girly face with big eyes and long lashes, and he wears a long, blonde curly wig (generally with butterfly clips). So while clothed, it's very easy to mistake his gender, even if he's dressed in jeans and a plain white shirt. I don't get offended, though. I love that about him, and I think it's kind of funny. I do correct the person, but politely, and only because I don't want them to go around calling him a her and then perhaps finding out later that she was really a he and feeling embarrassed about it or something. I'm weird like that.

So, yeah. If you deliberately dress your boy like a girl, suck it up and deal with the mistakes. If you can't handle your dolls genders being mistaken, don't have crossdressers in your group.

And for those who think crossdressing and gay dolls is sick and disgusting, you're also allowed your opinions, but please keep those sorts of rude comments to yourself. There is no need to deliberately insult others or pick fights on the forums. That is also very immature behavior.

 

This is a very, very good point. What's so bad about saying "thank you"? You could even gently correct them in your response: "Thanks so much! I think this dress is awesome on Bob, but I'm not sure if I like the dress or the pants more on him." You've managed to appreciate their compliment, clarify your doll's gender, and nobody blew their lid. It's a win-win.

 

Yeah, I had a similar conversation with one of my friends. I didn't have a problem with her repeatedly miss-guessing the gender, but when she started to get annoyed it was ridiculous. I mean, it's part cultural (people who watch a lot of anime etc. seem to develop an instinct) but seriously, almost all girls find pretty boys more attractive. She herself is dating a boy who looks more than a little girly. It's a stupid thing to get annoyed by: people want dolls that are attractive, rather than hulky and ugly.