Does 'historical background' of a doll bother you.

...Possibly because Volks is a Japanese company, not Korean, and neither Korea or the West are the markets they have in mind when they plan their releases?

That said, it would be awesome if Korean companies made dolls inspired by Korean history. Companies like Angell studio or Doll Leaves have done historic/ wuxia-style dolls, and they're also great. Bimong, for example, has created dolls like these for expositions, and it would be great to see more of that style.

 

So you're saying you can't see this from a Japanese point of view, but you expect the Japanese to see it from a Korean point of view?

Also, Japan's government not owning up to war crimes is not Volks's fault. Volks is just a group of artists who wanted to name one of their dolls after one of their country's heroes. It has nothing to do with the government or Korea.

 

What seems to be happening here is that people are saying they understand why you're upset, and you have a right to be - but Japan also has a right to release a doll of Date if they want to. And you are repeatedly saying that those who disagree with you that it's outrageous are ignorant, which isn't very polite and is unlikely to get your point across.

I personally feel that it's fine and understandable to find the subject matter tasteless, and it would be really uncool of Volks to release it somewhere in Korea, but it's not reasonable to insist that they shouldn't release it. Like the way its "not ok" to depict certain religious figures because it will offend people - which I think is ridiculous. The fact is, all our histories are filled with blood and war atrocities, thats what the world used to be like.

*edit* i started this post before your response, and I hope I didn't offend you. And yes, some arguments are getting off-topic. However, I feel naziism and racism isn't a relevant comparison here, and we'd all be better off dropping it. Hitler specifically aimed to wipe out jews (and the disabled), if he had "only" invaded the rest of the world I think we would find him less horrifying.

 

I'm a bit confused as to what the objection here is... while the Hitler connection isn't apropos, I'm assuming it was brought up because of the great offense most take to idolization of such a person. But whatever atrocities committed against Korean people by Date Masamune, they by no means defined him, and his name is not synonymous with anti-Korean sentiment. I don't think any Japanese people are going to buy Date Masamune from Volks because they are racist towards Koreans.

I'm assuming the much more salient objection to making dolls of figures like Robert E. Lee and Hitler is that there are people who would buy such dolls for idolization purposes because to many their names are synonymous with racism. And in modern society encouraging or enabling that idolization is considered offensive and legitimate grounds for boycotting, but that doesn't seem applicable to me in this case. I'm pretty confident Volks doesn't carry anti-Korean sentiments, nor is there much of it in Japan nowadays. On the contrary there's quite a boom in love for Korean culture in Japan right now, as Korean dramas and pop idols are all over the TV and CMs these days.

And if the point is (as Rosemarygarden brought up with Hetalia) misinformation, I don't really see how that's possible with dolls. It's only revisionist if information is being provided, and as far as I can tell, and just releasing a doll with an outfit and a wig that doesn't even strike a realistic resemblance to the person in question isn't providing information. Also in the Hetalia situation, if the people saying that aren't joking then I highly doubt these are people who would ever bother informing themselves on accurate [or as close to accurate as one can be about something which is always recorded subjectively] history anyway. If people didn't know anything about Date Masamune and see his name on a doll, and then look up information about him, then they're probably reading more about it than they wouldn't have otherwise. If they don't look anything up on him, then they've just got a doll whose product name doesn't really mean anything to them, which seems harmless enough.

Ultimately, I don't really see any issue with putting the name on the doll. As mentioned, it was probably created for Sendai, but even ignoring that, putting a historical figure's name on something seems more for the purpose of generating a false sensation of real-world relevance. If someone released a doll with 18th-century French fashion and hairdo, how much better do you think that doll would sell if you called it Marie Antoinette instead of a random female name? While that may seem exploitative to some, to me there's only a real issue if it's encouraging some negative viewpoint. And at least in this case, I don't think it is.

 

Rosemarygarden Yes, I did read what you said after I posted because it actually took me a while to decide what to write. I think a lot of people's issues iare that your actions speak louder than your words. Spreading the idea that you personally feel that this doll is not okay, is a way of making another person feel bad about liking or wanting the doll. It's shaming to that person. That's the impression you are giving me. Personally, I feel even when you are talking about the doll, it's not really on topic of the debate you have started. The debate should be about whether the historical background of a doll is relevant. Not about what Japan did to Korea. Or what Germany did to France. Or what Bob did to Susie.

The fact that you've drawn in the comparison between Germany and Japan makes it seem to me like you have never properly studied post WWII history- or the Allied occupation of Japan or of Germany. It makes it seem like what you know is very much second hand and biased. Different powers made very different decisions about how to appropriately 'punish' the losers and they are still very much in effect today- please don't preach about how others should know or understand history- when you aren't showing a very good understanding of it yourself. Yes, I agree that the Japanese are at fault for various things and I wish they would do what they so obviously should do (and should have done)- but I've also had the chance to understand why they haven't- it doesn't make it right, it just makes it so. It's painful to see this simplification of history, when it's so much more complex than that. Probably just as painful to you as this doll is, and the apparent obscuring/simplification of its history.

Back on the topic- Lelei has excellent points that actually relate to the debate at hand.

 

Sorry, I've been watching this thread, but haven't responded yet; What does the Maginot Line have to do with the release of a doll of a Japanese historical figure?

I think you may have been onto a point here; That some people may find him offensive, but you lost all credibility immediately when instead of making tentative comparisons to other grey-area historical figures, you ran straight to comparing him to Hitler. There are plenty of historical (and semi-historical) figures whom one nation considers heroic and another considers to be a terrorist, fool or monster. Pretty much any revolutionary, for example.

As for whether or not Volks should make a doll of him - Volks make their dolls primarily for a market of collectors within Japan, with their international sales being basically a happy accident. Within Japan, he's a popular character, so it's no more shocking that there is a BJD of him than that he's available in UFO catcher machines, depicted as a plush cat.

Added a link of Masamune as a plush cat, because I know that someone is going to ask; http://rebeccainjapan2010.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/100_0988.jpg [Picture (C) Rebecca in Japan 2010, used without permission.]

 

Ahh. I've never heard of it used as a metaphorical device, apart from (strangely enough) in racist tirades against the Germans. Possibly that's just a usage local to the UK, Or even just to people that I associate with, but it understandably confused me!

I agree that seeing a beautiful representation of something can surreptitiously cloud one's judgement towards it, but when the thing in question is a person on whom the facts are readily available to anyone who cares to look them up, and that person lived several centuries ago, it's possibly less of an issue.

If you're worried about how clearly you're coming across (and I know how much of a pain it is not accidentally misrepresenting yourself on forums), consider writing your posts in a Word document, and reading them through a few times to check for coherency.

 

That one is tough...

In a way no amount of time can wipe a crime that has been committed and yet time separates most people from the feelings of resentment towards certain people. Who didn't love hearing about Julius Caesar in school? The man was a Roman genius! And then when you get older you realize the only reason why he made Rome so great was by enslaving people and stealing natural resources from many nations. Think of any great nation or leader and I bet you can attribute their greatness to the amount of bloodshed they caused. Heck, even honest Abe made his message through war. Not that I'm saying there wasn't a valid point I'm just saying look how he "fixed" the situation.

On a totally random sidenote... Gosh I wish we would evolve already! Hate, greed... we are no better than the people watching gladiators kill each other. Even to this day we still have bullfighting and public executions. Really? Really people, you want blood that bad? Just look at how many people will slow down just to see an accident on the highway. It just makes me sad and mad.

PS - someone mentioned Hitler dolls. Oh no. Never fear. They exist already! *rolls eyes* sigh
Action Figure?

 

I have to admit that I don't know a great deal about this character but surely the reason behind Volks making this doll will have a lot to do with him being seen as a great national figure in Japan, and nothing at all with how he is seen in Korea. I am British, Welsh to be precise and these Islands have a long and bloody history of brutality and injustice of each wave of invading populations against those who already lived here. Those conflicts are so deep rooted that many people still cannot let them go, which has given rise to Welsh and Scottish nationalism and most devastatingly The Troubles in Ireland. To my mind there comes a time to put all these things behind us and see historical figures as just that.

I just read Tessalina's post and (after gagging at the picture) I wanted to add something. I recently watched a documentary about Boudicca, She is a National Heroine and I have always thought of her that way too. She stood up to the might of Rome and was a feminist long before anyone had thought of that phrase. Watching the documentary, seeing the few charred remains of the hundreds, perhaps thousands of innocent people she slaughtered and burned to death in her rage.... well, you realise that history is brutal. Those people weren't just Romans, very few of them were in fact, her armies killed far more indiginous Britons who were trying to make the best of life under Roman occupation.

So, do I feel that the many statues of Boudicca should be torn down? Do I feel that her figure should be removed from our coins or that she should no longer be seen as a Great British Icon? No, no more than I blame Italians for what the Roman Empire did to my ancestors many centuries ago, but I do now see that nothing is simple. As someone has mentioned before, one man's hero/Heroine is another's villain. Japan has recently suffered devastating loss on a scale I cannot imagine and if Volks feel bringing out a doll based on an admired Japanese historical figure will help swell national pride, surely the people of Korea can have enough compassion to let something that happened 400 years ago lie?

 

Volks can't help with the radiation -- they can't, even if every one of their workers walked off the job and volunteered to assist they would not be permitted to help with that issue. They can produce dolls. To say they should not do the latter until the former is addressed is not at all fair.

 

What you are saying is that 'national pride' should come after the fix of radiation leaks. One is done by the government. The other is done by absolutely anyone in the country who feels like doing it. They have nothing to do with each other unless you feel the government should stop people from doing things that might be said to foster national pride until that matter is addressed.

We are talking about what Volks is doing. It can be seen as a matter of national pride, and the government has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Should they not be permitted to do so until the radiation problem is fixed? That is what you appear to be saying.

 

By this logic, we should never make a doll of any historical figure. One man's hero is always another man's villain. I, for one, would love a Boadicea doll, since she's such a national icon. I can imagine people wanting a Napoleon doll, similarly, or a doll of Lenin. All pretty divisive figures. What about dolls of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette? They'd fit in perfectly with a lolita-esque scheme, and are generally viewed as being harmless to idolise, but they were the absolute pinnacle of decadence in France at the time, and it could be said that their profligate natures left their subjects to starve.

And don't underestimate how much the earthquake has subtly changed things, within Japan. Half the people I know have lost a family member, or knows someone who does; Volks isn't some kind of monolith, utterly divorced from humanity, there's individual people who work there, and no doubt some of them have been personally affected by the Tohoku earthquake. I'm not saying that they made a Date doll specifically because he's so closely related to Sendai, but he may have been (consciously or not) closer to the forefront of people's minds than usual, when thinking about historical figures that could be made into dolls.