Does 'historical background' of a doll bother you.

Oh yes. Like other people here I agree with all you said above.Although I might not like a Nazi doll for say, if someone would want it I cant stop them, but I can say my opinion , and I can say I don`t agree wit such a doll.
But really I don`t really care if they make a doll after Date Masamune as it is their national hero not a mass murderer.

 

I'm not saying I wouldn't be upset or that I would want to ever be friends with someone who wanted to dress their doll as Nazi (any Nazi, not just Hitler) let alone themselves, however I would argue for their right to do so. Believing in free speech does not mean you condone or approve of the content of the speech but I do believe when we start curtailing people's right to free speech we lose something. I agree with Voltaire.

So do you consider President Obama a monster as well and would you object if Volks or Soom or whoever wanted to make a doll of him? Because honestly, all major political leaders tend to murder people. Whether they do it outright themselves, like Masamune or just sit behind a desk and order others or pass laws allowing it to happen isn't all that different to me.

 

A couple of times people have said on this thread that the Date Masamune release is to lift Japan's spirits. No, that release was intended for Volks's first Dolpa in Sendai, and as Date is such a huge figure in Sendai he was the logical choice. I'm sure he would have been in planning before the earthquake and tsunami. And while Sengoku Basara might influence his current popularity, Date's been a popular figure in Japan for a very long time.

Historical figures are a tricky thing. I don't see Date Masamune as equivalent to Hitler; I'm no fan of war, but I do distinguish between the levels of violence, the intentions, the results, and other nuances. I think "monster" can be too easy a label to apply. If it's about causing or condoning death, is every Texan (or other state with the death penalty) governor that allows hundreds of executions to go on a monster? Is every soldier who pulls the trigger a monster?

As has been said earlier, it comes down to personal comfort levels. It's nearly impossible to avoid things with origins counter to the preservation of human life. Case in point, we're all on the Internet here, something that ties back to the US military, an organisation with quite a lot of death and destruction on its resume. As in most things in life, you have to pick your interventions. If a revisionist version of a warlord bothers you, then that's a *cough* battle that you should probably pick to fight, by which I mean personally boycotting, writing letters of complaint, and the like. Others may not consider that warlord monstrous at all, but be deeply offended by a different fullset for different reasons.

For me, military figures from history being made into dolls is something I'd take on a case-by-case basis. As I never leave fullsets as-is, it would not be a huge consideration for me, but if it were, say, a Hitler doll I wouldn't be able to buy it. I would not be in favour of banning historical dolls, because I'd prefer we all be able to engage in the debate and feel uncomfortable rather than simply avoid the issue.

Also, I don't see buying a doll like this as condoning or rewarding the actions of the historical figure. Date's not getting any royalties from this. (Hey, buddy, go to war, and 400 years after you're dead some companies will make distorted plastic versions of you. Isn't that awesome?) Heck, with Japan's low taxes, the Japanese government will receive only negligible benefit from this particular version of Date.

ETA: I really do have to disagree with comments about it "not being worth getting upset over" or "it's just a doll". One, people can decide for themselves what upsets them. Two, symbolism has tremendous impact on our lives. Language operates symbolically. Human beings can do almost nothing without symbols, and every doll symbolizes something. Three, this thread is awfully long for something nobody could possibly get upset about.

 

I absolutely wish that all there was to Hitler was 'a grumpy guy who couldn't get into art school.' I really wish that was all there was to him, but it's not the truth. There are lots of people who haven't got into art school throughout history, many of them grumpy and shouty and possibly having their very own silly little moustache and comb-over, but Hitler's been the only one who actually took his indignation further and ended up being elected into power, forming his own personal guard, and kicking off an ideological revolution that affected the lives of millions directly and indirectly.

Not many grumpy art-school rejects go on to do that. That's why it's taboo to have Hitler dolls and Nazi regalia. Not because Hitler was an art-school reject with a chip on his shoulder but because he was an absolute nutcase who was persuasive and powerful and otherwise good people were either taken in by his racist rubbish or forced to cooperate to save themselves and their families. It's impressive he managed to be so persuasive, but it's also horrifying in the same breath. This is also in living memory, which is a completely different issue to the one of Date Masamune.

As for the Date Masamune doll, I'm assuming that there is actually only a small number of Korean doll collectors who object to him, judging by the release of the Jun Planning version. If the same historical person can be recreated in plastic by a Korean company...I don't think Volks are in the wrong at all for producing him in resin.

Rkold - one President Obama action figure.

 

Oh, I'm not saying there shouldn't be an Obama doll or that there is any problem with one. (I've seen a display at a doll show in Japan of Obama as well as Bin Laden throwing shoes at a George W Bush doll.) But I do think if you (the general you not you personally Jescissa ) are going to call Date Masamune monstrous, it's important to take a step back and look at current political leaders (like President Obama) and realize they are just as monstrous (or heroic.)

 

Sure he doesn't. I actually own some Vlad III memorabilia from when I stayed in Transilvania in 2004, and have read a scholar biography of him. He's a fascinating figure along with Matthias Corvinus, and was subject to a great deal of politically motivated demonisation in life and afterwards. It's not as if he was a nice guy, but he was a cunning guy and ruthless ruler in a very unstable time.

 

Okay I really really didn't want to comment in this thread (lawl) but I just thought I would bring this up because I don't think anyone did. This has more to do with a Hitler doll than the Date one, but well, here you go.

So people have expressed often in this thread anger at the thought of censorship, especially toward the Korean poster a few pages back, that Koreans might want to ban a certain doll.

I thought I would mention that this view against censorship is a very strong ideal in America, but in other countries it is not so much.

I don't know how much Americans are aware of this, but Nazi paraphernalia is illegal in Germany. It is illegal to display Nazi logos such as the swastika, sig rune, and other recognizable icons, and it is also illegal to do the hitler salute, and it is also illegal to publicly deny the holocaust, among other things.

http://www.vosizneias.com/49040/201...oy-fair-shuts-down-booth-selling-hitler-dolls

A Hitler doll could not legally be sold in Germany, and you would probably get into legal trouble for owning one, and even more trouble for displaying one publicly (who would?).

And they are really serious about these laws.

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/09/22/nazi-imagery-gets-wolfenstein-yanked-german-shelves

So in America it may seem like "it's their choice" but that is not necessarily the law around the globe.

 

There are many perspectives on the past, it's why the study of history is such a fascinating subject, but Den of Angels is a BJD forum and debating historical events, in recent memory or in the distant past, is not appropriate unless it relates strongly to dolls.

This thread has become less about the debate as it was generally presented and more about specific dolls (many of which are off-topic) and the discussion of politics, which is one of a few topics discouraged on DoA precisely because they are divisive and there will never be a consensus decision that the majority of debaters will be at peace with.