Doll Discrimination at Meetups

I think it does depend on the hobby a little bit - although you're generally right. I always found my origami people really pleasant and surprisingly drama free: I think there were a couple of factors. Most folders were older, and so established in their life - not insecure. Origami is essentially free, so there's no real status games that can be played - I imagine because dolls are pricey collectables, some people get sniffy about some brands.

And most importantly - the group leaders were really chill. They modelled the behavior which the rest of us followed. For example, most of them loved simple dorky folds like action models, frogs thst hop and dogs that bark. That created a welcoming atmosphere centered around having fun, rather than - say - if the group leaders were awesome folders who created super complex origami scarab beetles etc.

I think it's like when they say in startups, 90% of your work culture is your founder. A group hosted by a emotionally secure, kind, welcoming, low drama, generous person will attract and retain like minds. A group hosted by a competitive, insecure, judgemental, drama prone person will drive out people who can't with that, and become cliquish and nasty.

I think this is the number 1 problem with small communities, in a sense. One of my friends used to talk about this a lot - going into a community space, making friends, and then kinda getting out *with* those people so you could hang in private in future, but without having to deal with the constant low-level nonsense and particular unpleasant characters that come with public groups.

This is both smart and sad; it hollows communities, if all the cool people start playing on their own, and you sort of wish they'd stick around and do their part at keeping the main community space awesome and chill. At the same time, you don't owe anyone anything - and making friends who you spend private time with is smart & better for you personally.

It's a tough one.

 

this might be more straightforward than people prefer but i am old and tired

that is silly behavior and if it was done to me, i would probably ask direct questions that would make it really awkward for that person to continue being rude. "oh, really, is there a specific reason you feel that way? you know these are dolls, right? what kind of things do you like? maybe you can find a different meet more suited to your tastes."

same if i saw it done to someone else. i'm not afraid to tell someone who is making others uncomfortable to knock it off.

if i was the host, i doubt a person with that kind of attitude would be welcome in the first place. those aren't my people. they would already not be my friend. if they managed to slip under the radar or they were someone's plus-one i would tell them to cut it out or leave. they would probably get indignant and split anyway, which is an excellent outcome.

i've been an artist for a long time and have helped run events that were pretty niche. the only way to deal with that kind of boring, unnecessary negativity is to shut it down. they can squawk about it to their friends all they like. they can go all over social media and say whatever goofy crap they like. i don't care at all about pleasing that sort of person. it's disingenuous to hide a crappy abrasive nature behind all these layers of social nicety and then act like the people who don't put up with it are the rude ones. sometimes the only way to shut that kind of person up is to shock them by saying "yeah, i'm onto you" in not so many words.

if you see something that seems like bullying, speak up. embarrass them. let them know it's unacceptable. don't let people walk all over you or your friends.

 

Well said!

Teddy

 

There was one group I used to meet up with. There wasn't discrimination against dolls, but one person was vocal about other people's attitudes towards dolls. As in, "People who don't have the same doll opinions as me are icky, don't you agree?" to a whole room. As she was one of the more dominant people at these meetups, it was awkward to speak up.

I did say something at one meetup when she said "People who are upset at a recent high profile BJD theft* are being ridiculous." No one backed me up or sided with her, and the speaker didn't care about my thoughts.

These pronouncements were a stone in my shoe that didn't bother me enough at the time to stop going. Nowadays I meetup with other people who are much more accepting.

*Seven dolls earmarked for charity at the last New York Volks Dolpa.

 

While I've never experienced this in my current meetup group (which welcomes all types; resin, vinyl, abs, whatever, it's all good), I have definitely seen it online. It's childish behavior from immature people who haven't been taught civility and think their "opinions" are some kind of profundity that no one could possibly disagree with. Much like how teenagers (and those with teenage mentalities) believe that their parents and teachers can't possibly know as much as them, they similarly believe that no one could possibly have different preferences in dolls, so there's clearly some other reason you bought the one they don't like.

Their maturity isn't an excuse for rudeness, however, especially as there are far more young people in this hobby who do know how to comport themselves than there are loudmouth brats. If it's one or two people, calling it out (If you're able) is worth it. They do need to understand that their words affect others. If it's the group, it'll likely fall apart eventually as the opinions begin to clash.

For what it's worth, there was a bjd panel at a con when I was just starting out where the panelists declared that everything from China was "cheap garbage," which left me feeling defensive as most of what I had at the time was from China. I have never seen them run another panel, and the current ones (my own included) now welcome all legit dolls.

 

I have encountered it, but thankfully our local group is generally very open and accepting of all dolls, even off topic dolls.

I’ve had two incidents that I’d say border on bullying:

1. Someone openly mocked me for spending so much money on a Soom, who was my grail at the time, the. Spent a good 10-15 minutes telling me all the ways she believed her ResinSoul was better and how snobby I must be to have to have a Soom. I mean, I owned ResinSouls too and never made any comments against anyone else’s doll, but somehow just loving a particular sculpt made me a snob?

2. Someone spent way too much time making fun of my large bust girl and ranting about how sexist it is to want big boobs on a doll...while...I’m a naturally busty girl with similar chest proportions to that doll...

In both cases, I stood my ground but didn’t let it bother me too much. I bought both dolls for the simple fact that they appealed to me, and I told them so. I’m not judging them for their doll choices, even if they aren’t to my taste, why should it matter what I buy?

If I were hosting and saw someone actively bullying someone for their doll, I’d definitely say something. I believe that each individual will have dolls that meet their needs/wants better than other dolls, but I don’t believe that any specific doll category is totally superior to another. It’s all about what makes you happy, and any doll has potential to make someone very happy!

 

I don't understand bullying people for their doll preferences. I do try to figure out what other people are bringing to a meet, so I can try to bring something similar, but that's more to try to match for group pictures than judging what dolls they have. My Miku looked odd in a group with a bunch of Latis and Littlefees at the first doll meet we had in this state, and since I have a wide variety of sizes and sculpts, I have some wiggle room for matching with others.

Some sculpts... bother me, for various reasons, but I don't judge people for liking them. Probably the sculpt that whenever I see it I think "that looks like a porn actress" because of its expression doesn't remind anyone else of that, so it's not right to translate my opinions of a sculpt onto the owner.

 

I've only met up with dolly people twice, and only really interacted with my friends dolls who got me into the hobby to start with. I don't see the need to be horrible about another persons dolls! We all put a lot of time, love and money into this hobby, if we have the same taste in sculpts or otherwise! I've been really lucky that every doll person I've interacted with has been really nice. We have our different opinions, my friend isn't a fan of Dream of Doll, I own 4 of them. My friend likes to do her own face ups (and she's pretty good), but I prefer to send them off to an artist or have a commission from the company. I don't talk her dolls down for any of that, and I know she would never bad mouth mine. We're different people in a very unique hobby, that allows those different tastes to really shine, it's something to be celebrated, not belittled.

There are sculpts and companies I don't care for, or find a little creepy, but that doesn't stop me appreciating the craftsmanship and the owners customisation of the sculpts, I wouldn't out right slate them or tell the owner they'd made a mistake etc.

That being said, I'm from the UK and I've not been lucky enough to really have a doll community either near me, or just be actively vocal about themselves. I was really lucky to find the small doll meet that I went to, but they fell very quiet and it's been a long time since I heard a thing... and now I don't live in my hometown for work, so I can't attend meets regularly even if they did run.... Any UK dolly owners looking for a doll buddy hit me up

 

Doll meet-up should be harmonious and it should not turn out to be a political and competitive environment. Why would people ruin it?

 

Something I have noticed that occasionally pops up in a variety of hobbies/communities/etc. is a lack of social awareness about how one sounds when they're talking to people about their opinions about dolls. It's not that they mean to come off elitist, but one's phrasing of things may reflect that way to the listener, and once that perception is made, it can quickly become a "reality", and feelings end up hurt... which is sad.

 

I may digress a bit of the topic, but I feel the need to address something. Lack of social awareness and socially awkward people do exist. I've been to a number of small meets of various hobbies and found people who had a difficult time expressing themselves and their opinions, but also people who were just rude and that's it. The sad part is some of the rude people just excuse themselves as "socially awkard" or "bluntly honest" when confronted about their behavior. So I agree to all deep breaths and forgiveness it takes to the people who really need it to feel comfortable enough, when usually these misunderstandings disappear. But to the really rude ones, I usualy just get some distance. Honesty doesn't mean rudeness, and it's okay to say something isn't your cup of tea... it's just not necessary to say "your doll is ugly".

 

One additional thing to keep in mind, that can complicate the issue even more, is how different peoples' definitions can be when it comes to what's acceptable and what's "rude".

Sure, some cases are going to be clear-cut... "OMG, your doll looks like a coyote coughed up a hairball!" is obviously insulting... But it's not always going to be so simple. People can and do have very, very different standards and tolerances for disagreement. What might honestly sound like a harmless opinion to me (I'm an editor. I've had to develop mental rhino hide over the years just to do my job.) might sound like an absolutely crushing personal judgement or a dire insult to someone whose feelings were on the tender side.

We just can't all walk around on proverbial eggshells all the time, though. We can and should be mindful of how we phrase things, and how those statements are likely to be interpreted by others... But I really do think that some accommodation needs to be made on BOTH SIDES of the issue. Those of us who are less sensitive do have to watch what we say and mind our manners, but if you're one of those folks who knows that you're a little thinner-skinned, or apt to take things more personally, or if you're prone to really feeling potential judgement in a strongly negative way... Maybe step back and think about rather the snub you're feeling was really what the speaker intended. In a lot of cases, you may find that it isn't.

I guess "Don't assume the worst" is what I'm trying to say. If the blunt people try their best to be polite, and the sensitive people give them at least some benefit of the doubt when they don't quite manage it, we'll all have an easier and less stressful hobby.

 

ME RIGHT HERE. Actually, it's a bit more of social anxiety that I have had to work very hard to get through so that I can manage in work settings, for example. Coping for rent and doll money, that's how I see it XD

But yes, any "off" situation seems best taken on a case-by-case basis. I would say 98 percent of anything I have noted that could raise a concern was something I could either think out and process, or just outright let go because while my mind noted it, there was not this immediate gut instinct to take offense. Even the other 2 percent I can attribute to "well, they probably didn't mean it like that" and go about things.

In the end, we all want to meet up, look at the beautiful resin beings, and have a good time while we do it. If we all just be good humans and are both considerate in our communications, and in how we interpret the communications of others, then it'll be all good

 

I have experienced this. It was a large meet up in a public place, so there wasn't really "a host". But there were a few people that were being very rude and hateful about less expensive dolls, specifically bobobie/resinsoul. Calling them cheap, ugly and just generally crappy. It was very uncomfortable and we eventually just kinda split into 2 groups. And for a while I didn't go to meets if I knew certain people were going.

 

I so totally agree on this. I have to tell this to myself not only once a day... And even if I try to remember this constanly, I often fail and I need to totally start over... people are different and therefore there will always be room for missinterpretation and not everyone gets along well with each other, but learning that this is okay and concentrating on the persons you like seems a tough game sometimes. Especially if people out there try to hurt one... wheather it is with words or actions...
Personally I do not attend doll-meets (I don't even know if there are any in my area) but I think there is already so much discrimination out there that I don't want it to give room in a hobby that makes me so happy. I love my dolls and that is all that counts for me. If I see someone else being happy with his doll, why would I try to take that from that person?
There are quite a lot of dolls out there that are "not my taste", but that does not mean that they are of lesser value for me or that I would bully someone for having/liking/loving them... I don't expect everyone to like my dolls, either.

I would probably stay away from a certain meet, when people start bullying each other... it is mean and totally unnecessary... and I already have enough drama in my life...

 

I don’t attend doll meets either. I would be crushed if something like this happened to me, and this hobby brings me so much joy that I don’t want to take the chance of it being ruined. I do have a couple of online doll friends who are extremely kind who I cherish as much as my real life friends, so I do have people to share my doll hobby with which helps!

I also want to say that I would definitely go to a meet if it were with all of the people who posted on this thread! YOU are the ones I would want to meet up with because of your very kind and accepting words! All of you make me happy.

 

Thanks, that's something to remember for my next doll meet which is coming up in May in Toronto. I have not attended a lot of doll meets, but all the meets I've been to were great, met nice people. After reading this thread, I am starting to feel nervous. Looks like some people need to learn "Doll meet etiquette".

I contemplated NOT bringing any doll to meet ups so that I can focus on admiring everyone else's dolls and be focused on them. Often, I become very self centered with my own dolls and do not really admire and enjoy other people's dolls that I should because it's a doll meet. I am there to meet other dolls and enjoy their company. I always remind myself before a doll meet that every doll is beautiful. I am not to pass negative comments. I should also maintain a positive attitude if I were the one singled out. I bring different dolls to different doll events, for example, the resin doll/s that came with me to the last meet I attended will not attend the next event.

 

That is such a lovely thing to say, Bweis13! ^-^ I would certainly like to be at a doll meet with everyone here as well! ^-^ (If any of you ever find yourself in Singapore, look me up.... )