Dolls and feminism

Speaking as a man (Surprise! I'm not a woman! who primarily only owns girl bjds (I have just 1 male dolly ^^)...

....My dream doll is actually a Cerise Doll Blueberry.

I'm pretty sure that was her name, anyway.

She...is just.... SO. BEAUTIFUL!

My wife thinks she's a a doll with a sweet and silly face. Both her, our brother, and I all want this doll *3*

I would, like, just die of happiness if I could have Blueberry. I don't think she's on-topic here, but she should be. She is my most favorite BJD and I want her so so very much.

I wish there were more dolls like Blueberry. Because Blueberry is hard to come across in the Marketplace, and she is no longer being made, I would really hope someone else would make a chubbier doll. Because then I would make that dolly mine (^ 3^)~

I love the body in every form, and I would LOVE to see the artists push the form more. BJD sculptors have such amazing talents to pull out the shapes they do...We are lucky to see so many spectacular dolls available....I saw one recently that was a lady deer Cenetaur...awesome, right?! ...

...BUT, I would LOVE to see the big-name BJD artists make another Chubbier Dolly Lady! Please ; w ;!!

 

Teehee... Ingy, it looks like you almost killed the thread. I don't think anyone was expecting a male perspective on a thread with "feminism" in the title.
Yes, Lillycat's dolls are all gorgeous in all their variety of shapes, I'd agree there, and I too adore the rounder curvy "fertility goddess" type fuller figure Blueberry has too.
In the real world of art dolls (as oposed to ABJDs that use the term "art doll"...looking in Leeke's direction there!), too, where people tend to push the notions of beauty and known concepts of the figure in art a lot further a lot more is possible too as there is no need to worry so much about owner customisation, poseability (many are sculptural figures only) or currently acceptable trends in aesthetic. This is more the place where feminism can be celebrated through liberation of limited concepts of the figure and form, something which is a lot harder with ABJDs.
I'm enjoying the fact that there is current trend towards seeing at least a few more varied figures and forms among abjds and hope there will be more "on topic" dolls in the future where more boundaries have been pushed as far as what is possible for casting and posing whilst still remaining within the lines of acceptable abjd aesthetic characteristics.

 

No, people were hoping for & expecting it. There ARE men in here, it's just not all of em go waving it around so loudly.

 

No intention to offend the males in the forum...if anything I commented as I felt bad for Ingy as after he made his comment the thread seemed to die for several days. And, yes, I have both met males in this hobby as well as male doll artists (both in my art college days and especially when I used to attend Textile Fibre Forum weekends and various doll collectors conventions that unfortunately no longer exist here several years back) who I respect and admire, especially as dolls in general tend to be so much more of a social taboo to overcome for you than for any of us of the female persuasion. And, yes, of anything I would love to hear some more male perspectives on this topic!

 

Some find art that imitates life as beautiful, and some people see life imitating art just the same. If you feel a doll is a piece of art, than you're most likely interested in a doll that isn't like a real person, but the personification of beauty, and that in itself is what art is about. And many would say, and I personally believe, that their is no reprimand for that, as art is above all things: the most human of qualities. That in itself is beautiful no matter the look of the doll. Barbie however...that gurl is a different story, and she can have as many jobs and degrees as she wonts, but I don't trust anyone with a body like that...I tell you wut child...

 

It all depends, I suppose. I don't think femininity is sexist, nor do I think that female BJDs fall under stereotype categories. Yes, many real life women do not look like dolls but that is natural. And even if they do not look like porcelain, they are still feminine, some just more than others. There is nothing sexist with looks.

 

Do the pretty female dolls out there affect how you feel about yourself, if you're a woman?
Nope. I never had this issue with Barbies, either. They're just dolls to me, which means they're not real. I don't connect BJDs issues to people issues; they may resemble one another, but they aren't the same. I never really cared about how my dolls looked or how realistic their proportions were. Some of the outfits my dolls had, I envied because they were very pretty, but that's about it.

I think, fashion-wise, I live vicariously through my dolls. I love feminine clothing, so my female dolls tend to have dresses or bright colors.

And do you think your ideas of femininity have led you to feel differently about female dolls?
I find it easier designing and picking out clothes for a female than I do a male, and maybe it's because I'm a female. Emma has so much more when compared to Stephen. Women's wear is so versatile and menswear is always very...gray.

What do you consider feminine in a doll?
I guess I consider a doll feminine if it resembles a female.

And do you think BJDs impact on your ideas of feminism?
They don't add or take away anything. Like I said, I don't connect BJD issues to real people issues. These BJDs may look quite like people, but they aren't people, so I don't use my dolls as bases for what I consider feminine.

 

I hate the forever going on debate about what is beautiful.
"ewww pubes and hairy armpits are gross! everyone should shave!" "WTF are you talking about?? it's natural and everything natural is gooorrrrrrrrgeeeeouusssss. everyone who like shaved look is a pedophile!" "EVERYONE is beautiful. you are so stupid for not thinking like that" and blah blah blah.
I'm just there standing like "STFU all of you people! to each his own! stop brainwashing others so they will fit YOUR criteras."

dolls don't affect what I find attractive. what I find attractive affect the kind of dolls I buy.

 

I have to say, there really is a ton of sculpts and body types out there. but the norm is slender with long limbs and ample breast size. that might be why I stick to the male or child dolls. I find a female head sculpt I love but it has huge breasts or a tiny waist and I just don't dig that.

if they made a doll that looked more like the average sized woman and not overly exaggerated I'd buy her in a heart beat.

and I have to agree, most dolls do give a girl an unrealistic view of what mature female beauty is. that's why it's important to make sure your girls are confident, have great self-esteem and know what real beauty is. If they have a great personal foundation things like dolls and magazine ads won't affect them!

 

female and male forms have always been altered in art. when food was scarce, sculptures and depictions of heavier people were normal. look at some of the fertility goddesses.
now skinny has become the perception of beauty. if the world crashes and food is scarce, maybe it will revert again.
i dont think that dolls effect the anti-sexist movements at all. people can teach their children about how they are unrealistic toys, and sculted that way for easier joint movement or as an art peice, or in the case of barbies, through a traditional look. banning toys because it may "damage" a child is just a sign of someone who doesnt want to be arsed to educate children. *shrug*
dolls and asthetics have nothing to do with the feminist movement. just a sidenote.

 

Barbies are shaped the way they are because of the clothes, so they hang realistically with normal-weave fabrics on 1/6 scale bodies. They're distorted because they're mannequins. That other doll companies seem to emulate that distortion isn't Barbie's fault. She's just a clothes hanger. That society now seems to think that that distortion is ideal is unfortunate, but doesn't change the function of a Barbie as a coat tree.

I've been a loud-proud feminist for 40 years, and don't collect Barbies--not because of their shape, but because they're much too mass-produced for my snobby dolly collecting preferences.

My own dolls tend toward the tastes I developed as a child--I've always preferred more child-like dolls. I only have a few resin dolls with bigger bustlines.

 

Well, I think the fact that Bjd's come to you naked and bald, and not with "ridiculous clothing and unrealistic proportions" (aka Barbie's tiny feet and Bratz standard tramp attire). Makes It a little more customizable and not as impressionable.

From what i have seen, bjd's use a slender body type, which is Okay. If you can't learn from a young age that "everyone is different" then, Yeah. I can see where this COULD cause some image issues.

But, on a more positive note: Dark resin.
I'm not sure where you live, but in America, it is usually seen that the lighter your skin is the better. (They won't say it out loud though XD). This has caused image issues in itself for dark skinned girls (skin bleaching and the like). But From what I have seen in the Bjd communities, Dark Resin editions of dolls are Sold out before you can even learn about them. Which was a surprise for me.

So I don't believe that bjds really is a femimine image standard issue so much as a...matter of fantasy and beauty as the sculptor of the doll sees it.

Interesting topic It made me think.

 

i have to semi disagree with this. it's common in the african american community to see "pale is better" steriotypes, however in the caucasion community it seems to be the opposite, the more tanned you are, the better (at least in my local area).

 

This has been a very interesting thread. I personally have a varied assortment of dolls. Some are antique, porcelain, and most recently resin BJDs. I collect each type for different reasons. The antique ones are more nostalgic to me; some porcelains remind me of childhood dolls; and the BJDs are fantasy to me. I don't collect them to represent me or or some definition of feminine perfection. A majority of the BJD dolls I have seen come in all sizes and themes so you could say they represent many different sizes and shapes of people. Lately some very voluptuous resin dolls have been popular. It would be interesting to know what draws buyers to this type and if they are looking for that representation of female perfection.

 

I understand this perspective but for me it doesn't make me feel any less of a woman with regards to bjd's. I actually like dressing them up all sexily but its a pg13 type sexual way not like rated R. I think that since there are different typse of bodies and can be really customizable with bjd's I don't vew it the same way as a barbie or a bratz charachter. Not only that but I love fantasy dolls, and I diliberately would want them portrayed as a fantasy charachter like a fairy or a seer. Such as my dolls are.

 

I'd have to say that the female dolls in this hobby have never appeared to me as something that would be demeaning to women or representative of what every woman should look like. The great thing about them is that, despite how they are portrayed by companies, they don't need to look a certain way. I have my TF Jasmine on an immature body, so she doesn't have the same curves and breast size as an "ideal" woman body would. She's pretty plain and simple and could double as a boy. You could even put a girl on a boy body if you really wanted to completely change her body type! xD

I would argue that while having a much heavier looking female doll, for example, would be more diverse, it just wouldn't be what people want. I agree that there could be a lot more variations on female bodies (and males, at that) but a) we would have to have an insane range of clothing sizes to fit these dolls, just like with real humans and b) a lot of people purchase dolls because they have aesthetically pleasing features and because they have these gorgeous faces and bodies that make them maybe even more beautiful than a real person. I mean, that's certainly one of the things I like about mine. I can't dress up in sexy clothes, but my SD girl doll can, and that's satisfying for me. xD My dolls are my fantasy. That's all my Barbies ever were to me as a child. I didn't view them as something to be hated because they were better looking than me, because... I never felt that badly about the way I looked in the first place. :/ Didn't matter that I suddenly gained a bunch of weight, sprouted boobs, and had the most acne-ridden face in grade 5. I still loved my Barbies.

Dolls don't create self esteem issues, they just give people something to take out their self esteem issues on.

Someone with small breasts would be upset that all dolls are made with larger breasts. (Though this is not the case with BJDs.) Someone who is overweight would be upset that all dolls are either made with unrealistically small body proportions or just smaller body proportions than theirs. Those same people would also be upset that there are people out there who exist with very large breasts or very small body proportions, and in turn they end up making those people feel bad. Do you know how many overweight people I know who have bullied skinny girls to tears? I was guilty of it myself in high school. If we say that Barbies have unrealistic bodies, are the people who have similar bodies going to be made to feel bad? Probably.

I haven't seen a lot of dolls with what could be considered unreasonable figures... my 5SD is totally normal to me. There are probably some with ridiculously tiny waists or ridiculously tiny thighs, but being human beings I think we all know what a human body is supposed to look like and aren't going to be fooled by that? xD Dolls are sculptures, and you can't tell me every human sculpture ever made has been totally normal relative to existing humans. If that were the case then I guess they should be arguing that art is going to make people feel badly about themselves too.

So, all that being said... I disagree that there's anything wrong with the way female BJDs look and I don't believe they create anything negative unless people project negativity onto them.

 

I have to agree as well, I don't know too many people in my community who aren't trying to achieve the darkest tan possible and who aren't dying their hair trying to look darker. Then again I probably live in a different area.

 

In a recent commission of NobilityDoll, our group ordered a female 60cm muscular body. The artist seemed to be challenged by the idea of a female with massive muscles and resisted the group's request for more. A few in the group, myself included, were bothered that the idea of a muscular woman would be so difficult to create but not a muscular male doll.

I hate the idea that a male doll can be perceived as sensual and ideal with all his big muscles but a female doll can't.

~*~

While I never wished I could look like Barbie, the muscular form of my custom female doll body is my idea of an ideal feminine beauty. It takes a lot of drive to body build and is a testament to perseverance with the end result being that you are at least a little as strong on the outside as you are on the inside. Being a woman involves being strong because the world contains so much danger for us.