Dolls of all colors.

There is actually an older Debate thread Race Issues and BJD that touches on these issues somewhat so I am not so sure my question was really all that odd as others have thought it oo.


This.... Is an odd question because I notice that not all 'NS' skins are 'white' or Caucasian (I really want to know what jerk came up with that word, too, it's weird). I have two different NS tones at the moment and will likely have more, and they couldn't be MORE different. My NS-pink is very pale and creamy, very much like you would see on Victorian ladies who covered up all the time and carried their parasols. My NS-yellow is much darker and looks more tanned than my NS-pink when they're side-by-side, even though he seems to have more of an Asian skin-tone. NS covers a lot of varied skin tones, because not all companies make the same colour for NS, though a lot try to match the ones from Volks or Luts (I've also seen them try to match Dollzone and Dream of Doll or Soom). And the 'Caucasian' spectrum of colours also comes from EVERYWHERE, its a big melting pot of races, so there are going to be some people who match those colours.[/QUOTE]

So I am sorry you thought my question odd. But then you actually gave a perfect example of what I was talking about... Normal Skin - pink...Victorian lady skin color. Hmmm that would imply a "caucasian skinned person" and that NS could not possibly be a brown or black skin tone. Then NS-yellow...Asian skin toned. Calling the skin color of an Asian person yellow would probably not win many friends as that is still considered a racial slur in many countires.

What I was trying to say is that the term NORMAL added to ANY skin color imples to ME that other colors are NOT NORMAL. Why not just call the color "pink flesh" or "olive flesh" or "brown flesh"? Why the word NORMAL?

Unless you have had to deal with the prejudices associated with being of color it is probable you could not see a problem. Anyway it was just a question.

 

Off-topic: The term Caucasian comes from the Caucasus region of Eastern Europe/Eurasia, which is where those with features we might label as Caucasian genetically come from, at least anthropologically speaking, and this is an incredibly simplistic definition from the top of my head (so please forgive slight academic inaccuracies).
It does have racist connotations: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasian_race

On topic, I generally go with normal skin because dark skins are usually too expensive for me, and white skins don't have as much warmth for me. I do have a white skinned head that needs a body, and I'd love a tan doll or gray doll (Chiron *swoon*) someday. I must admit I find it a tad odd that it is almost universally called normal skin (I do believe there are a few companies that don't do this). I do not focus on this, not as a person who has not been a victim of prejudice (believe it or not all people of all colors can and are subjected to varying prejudices in various places), but as someone who just wants the doll and likes that color.

 

All my dolls exept two are Normal skin. I prefer that tone to WS as it is more natural and I don't feel I have to worry as much about yellowing. The only reason I have two white skin dolls is the fact that they were not offered in another tone, if they had been I would have chosen normal instead.

As to the whole Normal skin term I have my own theory. Much of the terms in this hobby comes from Volks, being the first company to make these dolls, and I just think most companies took after them the term "normal" skin. I would also guess that the "normal" in this case is refering to it being the one offered as the standard (as all other skintones were special release only back then) thus making it "normal" for these dolls.

 

this might come off as sounding racist in and of itself, but there is a predominance of ignorance about racism in countries like China and Korea - the companies themselves are doubtfully aware that it could possibly be construed as offensive to international customers. that's just my immediate take on it.

also, let's look at Asian beauty standards (which most dolls are made to, imho). although Western culture is now having an influence (hence the prevalence of new, "exotic", or dark skintones), in traditional Asian culture pale skin/snow white skin has always been associated with beauty. this leads back to times where everything was very classist - people who were poor and had to work in the sun all day had "darker" skin (tan) while people who were rich could stay indoors at their leisure (pale). even now, there is a huge business in Asia regarding "skin whitening" or "skin bleaching" which is very dangerous and can even cause cancer. yet, enough Asians still practice this or use the products because of the "pale is most beautiful" beauty mythos.

so, that is another reason we might consider that pale is the "norm". also remember that the definition of the word normal does NOT necessarily have positive or negative connotations in all cases. it CAN just mean "the norm" i.e the average, the most common. can anyone argue that dolls with pale white or pale white skin are NOT the most common type of doll in this hobby?

that is another reason why companies may term it so.

personally, i really want to see more variety in skin color. sculpt is the #1 thing that determines whether i like a doll but skin tone is probably #2. my favorite skin tone is tan and i would happily buy any doll that was darker than tan ("black" or substitute politically correct word of choice here), or an exotic color like gray, purple, blue, green, etc as long as the overall aesthetic of the doll was pleasing in an artistic sense.

so i fully support variety in skintones, it makes me unhappy when companies ONLY offer pale or pink, but i do not find the term "normal" to be offensive because within this hobby, it IS the norm for a company to make their dolls pale/pink by default.

PS. out of my ABJDs, only one of them is tan, and out of my offtopic dolls, only one of them is tan. why? because, with the exception of one or two dolls who i wanted to be pale as part of their character (and even if i didn't, i couldn't have a choice about it) the companies did not offer any skintones other than pale/pink/yellow to me and i bought them for their sculpts since that takes priority over skintone most of the time. if more sculpts i liked were offered in more skintones, then my doll collection wouldn't be so predominantly "normal skin" as they call it.

 

@leita: I found your comments informative, direct, and sensitive. Thank you for adding a very enlightening comment to a subject maybe not fully grasped by others outside the US where racial diversity may not be that country's norm.

I think you for pitting the "Normal" nomenclature in context and enlightened others including myself.

 

I love white skin the best because colorful faceups show up easier and you have a wider variety of colors you can use for them. All of the dolls I currently own though are Normal skin or pink skin because the characters they are embodying.

 

Off topic: as a person of Chinese origin and very well acquainted with both the Chinese and the American cultures, I can appreciate your perspective. Here, if I may, I'd like to explain the Asian perspective a little bit further as an insider. To a lot of Asians, since most of the BJD companies are Asian companies, what people in America think is Caucasion skin tone, feels like "normal" skin tone (after makeup) for most Asians. Like in China and Japan and Korea, people have had a long tradition since ancient time to makeup as paler for beauty. This is probably because the royalty and the wealthy looked paler for being indoors etc. and it was these people who set up the standard for beauty. The origin of preferring the paler skin has little to do with ethnicity.

Historically, in ancient China for example, people did have interaction with the outside world, during some dynasties even a lot. They traded merchandise.They even had cross-racial marriage (evidence from unearthed tombs in which Caucasions and the ancient Chinese burried side by side as a loving family. They didn't die at the same time, but each was added in after they died). At that time, the ancient Chinese were much more ethnocentric and did NOT think Caucasions were prettier or had better skin tone. It was just a coincidence that they like paler skin tone for the reason mentioned in the previous paragraph.

The flood of Western influence on beauty came to Asia much much later. So later on it became a mixture of what the Asians originally preferred for their own separate reason and what Caucasion people at the time preferred. And this preference stayed to this day. Asia is probably the place to find beauty products (for humans, not dolls) that help the skin to stay paler and rosier. (They like a healthy pale with rosy cheeks).

And it was only until recently that these Asian countries have seen a fast increase in international ethnicities domestically. So, ordinary people there just don't have much of a clue compared to people in the U.S. why skin-color is such a sensitive issue. When they comment on people's skin color, they don't mean to discriminate, they are just fascinated and are appreciating the difference. And to a relatively homogenous group in terms of race, they do think their (ideal) skin color is "normal" to them. Hence the term, normal, I guess.

What's more, by the English translation on many of the BJD seller sites, I can see that there may also be a cross-language issue going on. They are just using the terms older companies have been using. They may also find it hard to find another word, since not everybody studied English intensively -- believe me, nobody in Asia wants their skin to be described as "yellow" which sounds unhealthy and kind of ugly. ^_^

It is also interesting to see how people in the U.S. define "white". A classmate of mine who's from South America told me that see was no doubt white in her own country but considered non-white in the U.S.. Another friend of mine is originally from Japan. She has very pale fair skin but she's pure Japanese in terms of blood. She told me she's not alone in Japan. Actually in Japan and in China and in Korea, there are a lot of people who naturally have healthy pale skin. My husband too is one of them. And my friend always feels uncomfortable when shopping for makeup in the U.S. -- the sales person would always give her a tone much darker than her own skin, since it is labelled as "Asian". She considered that stereotyping.

So, hehehe, I guess we are all part of our own cultures and can't escape that. So let's be happy and appreciate and celebrate the multiplicity of viewpoints and diversity of humanity ^____^

On-topic: I personally like the NS yellow and NS pink skin, purely for the reason that they don't yellow or green that obviously. But I do like to browse and look at the WS and tan dolls to just appreciate their beauty.

 

thank you lostkitten, i tried to be as articulate as possible. Cheri also said something very similar to what i did above which hopefully reinforces my point.

 

The first time I choose a doll I choose white because I liked the idea of my doll being pale. The second doll I got was also white because she was intended to be his daughter, so I thought that having them the same color would be realistic.

After that, the next two dolls I got were white-skinned because I began to like the look of it versus any other color (although I hadn't really seen any other in person), because I actually liked the way white-skinned looked when evenly, lightly yellowed, and because my characters are albino.

 

Skin color would never deter me from getting a doll except for fantasy colors like purple or green. My characters are always fairly loosely shaped until I find the doll that I like for them and then more of the cosmetic details fall into place. For example, I never saw Malam as being tan but when I saw York I knew that was the perfect sculpt for his character and the ones that have been available have been tan. Most of my dolls happen to be pale skinned like white or cream just because my favorite characters have often been described as being pale.

 

I believe that all skin colors can look good on a doll. Everything from tan to grey or pale white.What I base my choice on the most is the face and the overall feeling I get from seeing the doll. I really don't see the point in just choosing a doll that would match your skin tone(unless you're trying to create a mini you) simply because it seems "normal". I'm a healthy chocolate myself as I hail from Jamaica,but I love dolls of every shade.

You should choose a doll because you actually love the way it looks and how it makes you feel. If you love a doll that's grey skinned and her face up is simply perfect, then get her. If that sculpt and that skin tone doesn't work for you then fine,but I like a nice variety of dolls so that they can be one huge multicolored family. :3

 

For me, colour is one of the last thing I look for. I mainly focus on the sculpt and features of the doll first. Unless I have a specific character in mind, I can usually settle for normal or white skin.

 

in general terms I prefer NS over any other, simply because I like the way it looks, and also because it is the most widely available.

I'm not so much a fan of WS, which I think may have something to do with the fact that I really don't like how pale I am, and tend to associate white skin with lots of long-sleeved clothes, tons of sunscreen and staying indoors so I don't cook like a lobster.

That said, if I had a character that suited such behaviour then I would choose WS.

I also think that some sculpts have a certain ethnic background to them, and thus look quite odd in some skin tones, and absolutely fantastic in others. Iplehouse's Ashanti for example, looks like a botox promotion in lighter skin tones, and yet looks like what I believe a real life Pocahontas would look like with the darker skin tones.

Fantasy tones don't really have much appeal to me unless I specifically created a character like a tree sprite or something. I think I may prefer to have them in NS and then blush their extremities in a colour.

 

I prefer normal skin only because I have only enough room for 1 or 2 dolls. If I had more room, I'd get a few tanned skins and some fantasy colours.

 

Color is second but I do luv tan dolls and I think ws is very lovely but the biggest reason I started to luv tan skin is because resin yellows and for me it's more obvious on a ns or ws doll than on a tan doll, yellowing gives the tan a more gold brown tone and that I don't mind. Other than that I'm not too picky about the skintone it depends on the sculpt and the character it portraits I've seen some amazing dolls in grey skin and I think they are just as beautiful. But if a gorgeous doll comes in ns,ws and tan I'd pick tan but only if it's not too dark. If a gorgeous doll I really want comes only in ns or ws I'd probably pick ns but if ws is limited I might choose ws XD. So honestly sculpt is the most important aspect after that for me it's weighing all the options .

 

I usually love normal or white skin, because I tend to like soft, pastel tones.
white is like a canvas to me, ready to be painted and maybe in some elaborated way. and as for the normal skin, the paler the better.

lately my interests are headed to fantasy colours, always in pastel and cold tones.
here too, the paler the better, because I have little issues to work with dark tones - I've had little issues blushing my tan chalco, and now that I'm waiting for epidia I'm kinda scared of trying a faceup on such a dark skin. not to mention the dark purple, handmade nobledolls I'm waiting for o.O
but hey, I want to try!

I really wish that factories could offer a wider skin tones choice, not natural only, but fantasy too.
most of the face molds are lovely, but for instance I'd love to be able to have more choices. what I miss is black. the last soom elf, presio, could be a perfect drow, if only there would be the chance to order him in very dark slate grey or even in black...

but I agree with whom says that face mold is more important than the skin tone. I know that resinsoul offers dark grey colour, but I don't like the face mold so I can't resolve to purchase the doll for my char.
and when I've searched a doll for a tanned char of mine, the face mold was more important than the skin colour again.

 

My first doll is white. With a good faceup she's absolutely goregous. It also depends on what company you get it from. 5stardoll's white isn't the same as Resinsoul.
My second doll is real skin from impldoll. Its pale but with much more of a fleshy tone, which is what I wanted for her character design. ^ ^ I think I would like a doll in every color....except for tan, I'm not a big tan person. :/

 

I bought a white skin doll and ended up giving it to my daughter. It's features looked flat and the skin tone was too unreal. I like these dolls for their hint of realism. So it was back to normal skin, which in my opinion looks pale anyway.

I have one rose skin doll which I love.

I also love Soom's light violet, and grey dolls in general. These are the colours I'd go for for fantasy dolls.

NS is my fave, because of its versatility and stability.

 

They key for me is variety. When I draw up my dollie plans and what I should buy next, I think about what I do or don't already have or have planned for. I want contrast, and lots of different skin tones to be able to work with! Also, I'm a huuuge fan of tan, so even with the typical jack in prices (so painful OTZ ) I want to own at least a couple (I wish I could have more, hah) .

Somehow, despite white skin and pale skins being probably my least favorite, I've ended up with a lot on my wishlist in that color OTZ . A couple because of the character/concept, and two because I think that the -paper white- white skin of the company would be great to do some fantasy blushing on. I do hate how I have to worry about yellowing with WS dolls, which I don't even think about for my NS girls.

Price is sometimes a bonus too, like how cheap and easy it is to get NS dolls compared to tan or more unusual colors!

I wouldn't normally be interested in getting a doll in an unusual color like gray, but for a doll I have that was modded into a zombie by her last owner, I feel like I would bond better and have more ideas if I tried spraying her gray to go with her 'gray theme'.

I wish so badly that I liked Iplehouse's JID bodies and their body-head ratios more, because I love the skintone variety SO, SO MUCH. If it weren't for that one thing, I'd plan to get six dolls, one in in each skintone, from them! But it just wasn't meant to be T_T .

ali

 

Most of my dolls are Natural skin because they're based up on a characters of one of my favorite authors who writes set in Regency London (about 1816), or spin off characters from these characters.

I have a second set of dolls that are fantasy dolls that I'll order in any color! (Teenie Gem Soom!) but I only have one of these so far... on her way! (and she's in violet!)

If I start another set of dolls (in the future) I will definitely be going for more of a variety of skin tones because all the tan resin is tempting me *-*