Dollshe Discussion - Part Seventeen

@Ho.taru He's beautiful. I'm a total sucker for both redheads and tatts.

I'm bad about posting (recent) pics of all my boys not just my Dollshe ones. The only recent-ish pics I have taken have been for friends who wanted/needed comparison shots of different bodies together and a couple of shots I took to show an outfit I'd recently completed that I was pleased with.

 

Gorgeous, this is what I wanna see! I love his body art.

(I do get where you're coming from by the way, but I don't think ignoring him is "letting him get away with it", because talking about it isn't punishing him or making him face retribution either. Talking about it is just... a cycle with no destination. Either something comes of BJDivas threatening legal action, or he bankrupts himself or both, that's the only real retribution!)

TBF I can't contribute myself (therefore can't "put my money where my mouth is" and all that) because I don't have any 1/3 dolls. I have the 1/4 fashion size instead. But this tends to be where the actual discussion happens because I think most people prefer 1/3, the fashion size thread is slow.

@Iron_Dog I get you, me too haha. Though I also ended up self-conscious from seeing too many posts on the web shaming anybody for showing off "unfinished" dolls, which mine perpetually are. It's extremely rarely the right conditions in my country to do face-ups, and I'm in no great hurry anyway, so they end up blank eyeless mannequins for... years. I'll still take pictures, but mostly keep them to myself.

 

@nattherat I currently have 3 full dolls requiring face-ups. I can't do a face-up to save my life so I need to find an artist that I like and I'm quite picky. I have been fortunate enough to find one that I like that's local to me (a 2 hour car ride from my house!) but I also need to have the funds to have the face-ups done. 2 of the blank ones I have are brothers and I'd like them to have similar face-ups (one is a SD boy and the other is a DV boy) so I'd want to send them together. The other is only recently put together and I still don't know who he is so his face-up will be put off until I do know who he is. The 2 ready for face-ups have been blank for.... over 5 years for one and about 3 years for the other. I have another boy with a face-up that I want to get re-painted as his current face-up isn't doing it for me (or him) but since he does have one that is serviceable, it'll do for now.

 

Yes, I hope none of the owners feel any shame about sharing/owning them (the ones that are not banned) just because of the terrible turn the business has taken. Some of the first dolls that I loved when I discovered BJDs were from Dollshe, what has happened since then is heartbreaking. I want to support the owners and would-be owners, not shame them.

Both of your boys are looking so amazing have such attitude

 

Yeah the Dollshe situation made me feel bad about owning one, even though mine is nearly 20 years old and I bought him secondhand

 

This is something I've been struggling with since banning. I adore my Neo so much, but I felt that maybe it wasn't right to share him anymore given how the situation has progressed. I'm slowly changing my perspective now, as I am realizing that there's people who take joy from seeing owner pictures and sharing in their joy of the doll even if they are unable own the doll themselves.

I would love to post here, although mine is the fashion version not classic, so I'm not sure I can. As nattherat mentioned, this thread is far more active than the fashion discussion

 

Just the last few replies shows that sadly yes, Dollshe owners do feel shamed/unable to share their dolls! I've seen the same sentiment time and time again on Facebook, Reddit, and Instagram.

It's why I'd really like for Dollshe discussion spaces, like this one, to return - at least partially - to their original intent of sharing and appreciating the dolls! I feel like DOA is one of the only places where you could be sure that if you post your Dollshe doll, you won't get harassed about owning one (I trust the mods to take care of that kind of thing), whereas sadly the same isn't true of other avenues. I hate to see this happening.

I went to a BJD con last year and met somebody I'd never met before who had their Dollshe dolls out, and as soon as I asked the sculpt (I thought I recognised them but wanted to be sure), they looked crestfallen and immediately began with an apologetic disclaimer about how they got the dolls a long time ago. That a complete stranger felt they had to explain themselves to me, because they were pre-empting that I'd give them a nasty time about owning Dollshe sculpts. I could literally see the relief in them when I reassured them that yes I know all about Dollshe, have my own, and no I'm not going to bring it up or make a scene, I'm there to compliment how lovely and well-put-together their dolls were. I hope I don't have to spell out why this is such a sad state of affairs!

@idrisfynn A cutie! Though I feel like maybe he wouldn't like being called a "cutie"...

@Sanar Fashion size, woo! My fashion King Corey is one of my most beloved dolls, and I think I'd part with almost all the rest of my collection before I'd part with him!

 

I have 2 questions.

When I bought Wu-Tyr (Orijean), I got him during one of the infamous stock discontinuation sales waaaaay back in the day. He is the faceplate system (which I strongly dislike) but at the time that was the only option for his sculpt and he was in-stock so yea! shipped immediately. The deal on his head at the time was 2 faceplates (OE & SA) + the head back. I will not use the SA plate for the character that is the full doll but I would like the option of being able to use the SA plate for a full doll because I think the sculpt is beautiful. I don't have my guys share bodies either although my wallet would love that option. Obviously getting a Dollshe headback is mission impossible at this point. Has anyone tried 3D printing one? If yes, how did that go?

I also have a spare Hound head (SA) that I got when I purchased Akusuo 2nd hand (he came with 3; I traded one to a friend and Akusuo is the other head). Unfortunately for matching purposes he is honey mango oriental resin. While the colour is gorgeous, what is even reasonably close to it? The extra head has a lovely face-up by Barbello that is pristine (he came to me that way) and I'm loathe to wipe it (for blush-to-match purposes) but I'm beginning to think that's my only option at this point if I want to use this head for another full doll. Like Wu-Tyr, the head Akusuo uses IS him and swapping between the two is not a thing for the character (the heads are also painted in different styles by different artists). Also, any suggestions on body recommendations would be appreciated.

 

Someone had tried to open a discussion thread when he attempted his whole CoCo thing, and I actually left a very stern comment underneath because ARGH! The fact that even ONE person thought a discussion for this should exist shows that at least ONE person was apparently thinking about giving it a try again.

People are so naive (I don't want to say greedy, but I think a lil' greed is part of it as well), and if they hadn't been willing to give him a million second chances we wouldn't be in this mess now. He would have gone under a long time ago. His first "last" order of the classic Dollshe was in...what 2010? And there we had people already wait a year or more for orders. Fourteen years of this, and the majority of these years was an absolute hot mess. How is that possible?!

However, I don't think people should feel ashamed about owning Dollshe (I owned several at some point too, I just sold them because their aesthetic didn't fit the rest of the group anymore). And I'd also argue that the majority of time nobody is giving the owners grief when they post their doll. If you (general you) yourself want to act all "shame on me" self-flagellation when showing off your doll (like that person on the con), that is a personal issue.
I'd personally refuse to feel responsible for his fuck-ups And having being tricked into supporting his shenanigans/having been stupid enough to support him even though things looked iffy already, is also something you gotta accept for yourself. I'd argue most of the people stuck in this situation are already angry enough at themselves about it. Sometimes you just gotta own up to it and laugh about your own stupidity.

However, I would feel responsible if someone asked me what company my doll is from and I'd say "Oh, a Dollshe" without adding a HUGE "I know you might like this doll but please don't go to the Dollshe website and buy it directly, please buy second-hand, cause Dollshe is a fraud and you will most likely wait years for your order and never receive it" disclaimer.
I don't wanna be at fault for someone walking into that bear trap uninformed after I dragged out my bloody leg from the forest

 

I def think warning people off Dollshe as far as buying direct goes is the only honourable thing to do (regardless of the ban here on DoA). If they still want to risk it after you've told them of the state of things, that's on them. Even if Dollshe wasn't banned here I still wouldn't purchase new because I just don't have that kind of money to go towards supporting someone else's lifestyle and that's even before accounting for the utter trash US/CAN exchange rate.

I had a friend state that she was interested in a Dollshe several years back and that there was a really good sale happening at the time and was thinking of ordering. I just about screamed No! and Run!. I gave her the skinny on the goings on at that time, what the wait times had devolved into, the high possibility of never getting her money back/the doll she ordered and strongly urged her to check out the waiting room here as well as this thread. She didn't place an order (thank goodness) and about a year later ended up finding someone local who was selling their Saint for an awesome price. She got to do the sale in Canadian funds and picked up the doll from the person's house so no shipping or Customs.

 

One of the annoying things about Dollshe is that the man does make some gorgeous dolls. It's just a pity that he's also kind of scumbag.

I bought a Dollshe Marco head second hand from DOA's marketplace, only kind of thinking it would be a fit for a character, partially because I didn't even know the sculpt had made it into casting at all and mostly because I wanted to own something from Dollshe without paying the man directly. The head wasn't a fit but I'm happy to keep him as a mostly-floating head because the sculpting is beautiful.

 

Just to add to what @Ara was saying, if you're someone who is 'out of the loop' (not on DoA, don't use social media, or have no friends in the hobby) how can you really vet a 'good company' from a 'bad company'?

My background: I saw the pretty pictures on Flickr and decided I wanted pretty dolls too! I joined DoA last year and by then I had already ordered twice from Dollshe with one doll home. I admit I was worried about my Saint when 9 months went by, but from what I understand (in general, not just BJD) is that a customer could end up waiting a long time, sometimes years, for a preordered item.

I think the reality is that many artists can't survive on art alone, and have jobs outside of their art, leading to the situations we have today where it's normalized to wait months for something preordered because they only have so much time to dedicate to it. This isn't the case the Dollshe as far as I'm aware, but in general, I believe most artists have day jobs.

Even now, I have some ear parts on order from another artist and they said 9 months. 9 months for a pair of 1/4 ears? Seems about right to me!

So, unless I've just had really bad luck, or tend to gravitate towards artists with long wait times outside my control, it seems kind of harsh to put the blame on would-be collectors when long wait times seem to exist everywhere, and not just Dollshe (again, from an outsiders perspective who had no knowledge of hobby drama). And research can only go so far when you're new. I honestly didn't think of researching the artists. I was more interested in finding the right kind of sculpts to build my dolls, because that's what it's about, isn't it? The joy/excitement to create your perfect dolls

 

I'd argue you gave yourself the answer there already: research.
Before you click the buy button and send several hundred bucks into the potential ether, you do your research. It's pretty simple actually
If you are unwilling to do so, because you'd rather focus on the romantic parts of buying dolls, then that opens you up to a LOT of disappointment (recasts for example).
And no, "research can only go so far when you're new" is not true. Research goes as far as you are willing to take it.

Saying "well I am out of the loop/I don't use bla/I have no community friends" is basically just saying "I did not try anything and I am all out of ideas". It's an excuse, if you truly are interested in not being scammed.
You bet that if I'd get into guitars tomorrow it would take me less than an hour to find a Reddit board, Facebook group, Discord channel or whatever to ask my really pressing questions I could not find any answers for just by searching around. I would NOT spend hundreds on something without being 100% sure it's safe for me to buy, vetted by people who know their stuff.
You could right now stumble into any BJD related group/chat/board/whatever and ask "Hey guys, new to the hobby, can someone tell me if Dollshe is a reputable company?" and within seconds you'd probably have a brigade of people telling you to NOT buy from him, and a full dissertation of what Dollshe did in the last decade. Finding these places often only takes seconds.
It just means you gotta have to get out of your shell and make use of the most powerful research tool: asking people that are more knowledgeable than you!
I'd argue not getting scammed should be worth that little extra research work.

However, if your first reaction is to go "I was not blessed with the combined knowledge of all the community combined the moment I decided to buy a BJD, guess I just gotta press that buy button!!!" then nobody can help you
The biggest issue a lot of newcomers have is that they a) don't even try or b) put in the bare minimum and then give up the second something is not given to them on a silver platter. And even if it's given to them on said platter, they might still not use it (saying that as the person that wrote a 70+ pages long extensive BJD guide extra for newcomers, and who has seen some shit).

I do not expect a newcomer to the hobby to have all the knowledge, but I kinda expect them to put in the work...or, well, live with the consequences

 

@Ara Thank you for the response. I appreciate your perspective.

 

Also depending on what social media you use, there is on IG Bjd Awareness. They usually post a bit about recasts and who to stay away from.

 

I guess I might step out again then because we're back to the same old circles.

I agree with warning folk, for the record, but that's what the big old notice on the front page of DOA is for, along with accounts like BJD Awareness. And, as @Ara says; self-directed research, which EVERYONE should be doing before giving away $600+, no matter what. I really don't want to be interpreted as if I'm saying I think we should forget his transgressions, because that's absolutely not the case at all. Just that repeating them over and over and over in a forum thread doesn't actually have any affect on what he does on his website or on the people he's actually scamming, nor does it change history.

I'd just really like to see some more dolls, and encourage owners to share their dolls and their plans, and their progress! Especially without wheedling them or making them feel bad, or dredging everything back up all over again.

On the positive side, speaking of doll plans; @Iron_Dog Yay! Hmm, I've printed a headback I've designed before, but I suppose the difference is I designed it and the head it was for myself, so I could be absolutely sure it would fit. I wonder if it would be better to try and make one out of clay instead, when you have the head in physical form already? I think that's what I'd do, personally; make one out of clay/epoxy. You could use a polystyrene sphere that's about the size of the inside of the skull, put clay on it, and once it's cured, use acetone to make the polystyrene melt (acetone makes all of the air in the polystyrene escape and returns it to it's original liquid form) so that the headback is hollow.

 

I think you can encourage people to share photos and doll plans, without shooting down the discussion of what's happening with Dollshe. This is a discussion thread and people are going to discuss what's happening. It's not like this is something that happened five years ago is being repeatedly "dredged up". It's an ongoing issue and this thread is a way of keeping up with it and reacting to it. Don't forget that you can scroll by any posts that are not relevant to your interests- there are some discussion threads that I don't read, I merely scroll through them for photos.

Many threads don't get a lot of photo activity for various reasons. Maybe some people don't post pics here because they "feel bad" but I think that's the minority, and most people don't share pics for a multitude of reasons. (For me personally, I just don't take a lot of photos anymore, but also my Hound's faceup is a WIP. When he's finished I will subject you all to his beautiful face.) You can encourage photos in the thread by literally just requesting them! You can also post your own photos to get it rolling. And you can do this directly in the middle of serious discussion about Dollshe's issues. No one is required to follow the flow of the conversation and it's totally normal to drop a photo at any time.

 

I look forward to seeing him one day!