Dollzone Originality - Discuss it here.

I think that even if Volks wins, without a doubt, even if DZ is put out of business, even if the creators admit, there will be people that still think they are 'original.'
And reversely, even if they are found to not copy, there will be people who say, "It's a lie," and will still believe. People believe usually what they want, without needing a pesky thing like facts.

I wonder if we will be informed, or if DZ will settle. What would happen if out of court? I am interested to know what mods will say about this thing.

 

Whether they settle or take it to court, if DZ loses, they'll obviously halt the production of some of their dolls. They may even have to change their mini body yet again, because a lawsuit could shed light on other 'copies' - though if Volks hasn't noticed the similarities by now, I doubt there's enough evidence to sue. Whether they'll keep making dolls or not... who knows? I don't think they'll be forced to stop the production of ABJDs entirely.

Fans will know because Volks will, I'm sure, point out the results on their website. They did after the FD issue, didn't they?

 

Well, if DZ settles, then they will have to pull their 1/3 boys. If they do that, we would know something is up.

I'm saying that a lot of people here see the evidence of copying based on the pics. What if they do have a trial and the judge decides in Dollzone's favor? Would people here official accept this as real and personal views against this will just be opinions?

 

Yes, good point Celebare I'm sure Volks will let us know if they win.

 

See even now as a DZ owner, who owns dolls that no one questions as originals to DZ, I feel like there are those that look down on me. I feel the need to explain my choice to buy the DZ dolls and not a dolls from say Volks, or CP, or Angelregion to name a few companies. I do not think knowing of the companies past makes you a bad person, and I buying an original doll from them make a person a bad person. I think that an argument could be made against continued support if the current accusations are proved true, but it still would not make someone a bad person.

 

seriously reading this and other posts like this i have completely felt unwelcome and even thought why not go to or make a forum for dz... i own 2 dz dolls i bought the first not knowing about dz's past i bought the second knowing and giving a chance i didn't buy them because they were cheep i bought them because they were beautiful. and now my bf who has fallen inlove with my dz dolls wants to buy his own bjd and also finds dz beautiful... but i push him to MAKE SURE he has seen every picture on gigglegeek and every company i go to ... because i don't want him to feel like he can't be part of the group... he loves these dolls and can see they have personality ...but i want him to not have to sit there listening to this and going to meets and have people inspect his dolls doing millions of comparisons just to see if anything might look the same as something else...i hope this case comes to a close soon so i never have to hear "that looks like this jsut with 3 billion mods done to it" again...
sorry this was so long
I Ash and Rowan they look great and pose great =)

 

I think it's sad people feel victimised becuase they own dolls from any particular company.

I enjoy seeing teh new DZ boys and girls in the galleries, becuase I'm sure they are original; and that the people wo own them love them as much as anyone else loves their own dolls.

People who vicitmes others for owning any brand, weather it be Volks, CP, DZ or anything, are usually very childish, and having been ragged on myself for only buying CP I can say first hand that it's not nice.

Until DZ has been legally proved to be copying other dolls, we should treat them as legitimate and recognise that all this is just speculation.

And even if they are prooved as fakes or copies we should treat DZ owners with respect and kindness, becuase they are *liveing human beings*, not just lumps of resin.

 

Armeleia said this about 4 pages back, but it's worth mentioning again: we have made no decisions about DZ dolls on this forum, and any decision that we do make will be quite a while away.


As for my personal thoughts on the matter - well, first of all, I think it's important to maintain the distinction between the people who have innocently bought a DZ doll, and the company itself, if it is guilty of these claims. It's not an easy situation for DZ owners to be in, and whatever happens, they're not at fault - they're just doll enthusiasts like the rest of us.

Also, while it can be very easy to spot similarities in photographs of head molds, unless they look identical (e.g. Woori/Lynn) then no proof can be taken away from it, and it is pure speculation. As others have mentioned, doll heads look incredibly different in person, and photos do not pick up many of the nuances. While it's tempting to find more 'evidence' against a suspected party, I think that unless the heads really do look the same, it's a bit fruitless.

That said, I am highly suspicious of the body on the new DZ boy. I would love to have it and Yukinojo here in person to compare, but the photographs are damning and I think there's definitely enough visible similarities to make them so.

I don't think that any argument can excuse copying on a scale like this, where the prices of the dolls makes it a very serious thing indeed. (I don't condone copying on any level, come to that.) For me, it won't make any difference if DZ are found to be guilty in the courts. Lynn/Woori (and Nina/Ken or Mika, in my opinion) is more than enough to mark them as 'guilty' in my mind, even without the new body fiasco.

 

*wow* I just found this thread because I saw the post about this lovely elf doll that I want. So I decided to look up DZ here since I had never heard of them (I live under a nicely shaded rock).

From what I can gather by reading this entire thread in one go (I was waiting for DoD to update!) DZ once copied (and may still in part - which has not yet been "officially" determined?) entire & parts of dolls.

Deleter / Obitsu had the same problem with their 1/6 scale - they used to make Volks dolls & then copied their mold exactly. This was a huge scandal I think it is relevant because they were sued by Volks, discontinued & now they make their own distinct mold. Their 1/3 scale dolls are shown on this board as well and I see no stigma attached to them. I myself own about 5 60cm & countless of their other 1/5 scale heads as I love one particular mold of theirs.

I definitely agree that copied dolls should be contraband, if nothing else by morals, but if someone is caught without knowing, they shouldn't be penelised in any way. I admit I am very interested in their elf doll & will probably buy it. It is gorgeous!

I felt sad that people are ashamed to own DZ dolls, not knowing about the past. It is not possible to know 100% of everything. That you didn't think to look shows that you have a wonderful disposition, you trust well & that isn't a bad thing (my logic is that I wouldn't have ever thought a company was duplicating). And you know now if you are reading this thread (like me) so we can make informed decisions in the future.

If it makes you feel better, I now know about them & still plan to buy the elf ^^;;;

 

oh... well shoot. I didn't realise that the new body was "new" (i.e. I thought it was in the past like the Woori head). Now I'm not so sure. If they are selling the elf heads seperately I would still be supporting them. Yikes... I hate that anything has made such a bad feeling in any collector.

 

I've owned two DZ mini boys. First I owned the 'old' body type, who came to me horribly mismatched in resin colour. He came with the chunky sausage finger hands. He's since been rehomed. I now own a 'new' body type, who is all one resin colour and has the more slender resculpted hands. The 'new' body type has the upper/lower arms THAT DO NOT MATCH. Everytime I look at him, I see that they clearly do not look like they belong together. The "old" body type of Xi did not have this problem, his arms fit together. The photograph of the DZ arm is my photograph.

Now, in regards to the 'new' slender hands. I just so happen to have an SDC Kurenai. Completely unintentionally, I looked at her hands and then looked at the hands on my new Xi. They are the same hands, only the DZ ones are less detailed and have been sanded in such a way as to appear more rough. The fingers APPEAR to be opened slightly wider or a bit differently shaped because it was cast a bit bigger and then the resin sanded away. Some of the fingers also look slightly different because DZ gouged out HUGE nail beds on the fingers that just look really awful and badly done. Absolutely everything about the new DZ hands was clearly SUBTRACTED from a slightly bigger casting of SDC Kurenai hands.

I tried to take photos of these hands, but because I couldn't get the angles exactly matched up, they look too different. But in person, it really is something to behold. I have no doubt in my mind that they are copies. We already know Dollzone does have some of the Volks limited dolls because they quite clearly have a Yukinojo. They must have a Kurenai as well. Its a good tactic, the changes they made to the hands do not photograph well, they can only be observed in person. And they took the copies from the hands of a very expensive limited doll that not that many people own.

And you know what I said when I noticed the hands were the same? I said, "Oh ****." Because I had really wanted to support Dollzone. I like Dollzone head molds, I for one DO believe the head molds are original. They all have a very similar and unique look to them that I haven't seen on any other mold.

Between the arms not fitting together on the so-called "improved" new-type body and the new slender hands, I'm now really in doubt about Dollzone. No one has influenced this change of heart, no mysterious Volks elitists have brainwashed me into believing. I'm seeing all of this with my own eyes. It is easy to look at pictures and nitpick and argue, but I've made my own observations of these dolls in person.

I might still purchase Dollzone heads if they are available to buy because I genuinely like them, but I don't think I have any other choice but to look elsewhere for bodies at this time. I'm an artist and I would certainly never want anyone else taking credit for my work. I'm waiting to see what is decided in regards to the bodies, but even if Dollzone is 'cleared' of these charges, I still know that my DZ boy and my SDC Kurenai have the same hands.

And yes, I know, there are only "so many" positions you can have hands in. Except that every other company out there seems to do a fine job making their own unique looking hands. And even if the fingers were in the same positions, thats no excuse for the lines on the palms also being exactly the same. There is also the glaring fact that it is BOTH hands that match! If one hand was similar, but the other was not, that would be one thing. But they BOTH match.

 

To be honest I don't care if people look down on me because I own a DZ. I'm proud of my boy and I wouldn't give him up for the world. I will be very dissapointed with DZ if it turns out that they are copying, but it will not stop me from loveing and possibly buying their original sculpts. I refuse to succumb to peer presure. I came into this hobby to make myself happy, I don't care if other people can't accept that DZ dolls make me happy. I don't have to explain myself to anyone.

 

I'm kind of in the same boat as Kurosakura. Since the bodies are what's in doubt, if I could *find* a different body for my future DZ girl that I liked as much as the Dollzone body, I'd get it instead to avoid the *potential* that the body could be a copy.

But I want that mature body, and the only thing I've seen that's close is the MNF bodies, which aren't sold separately and might not work with a DZ head anyway.

ETA: I find if kind of interesting that many people were convinced that they're Kid Delf hands, but you've said they're SDC Kurenai hands. Does that mean Kid Delf hands also strongly resemble SDC Kurenai hands in positioning/detail? Just bringing this up as a potential example of hands in the same pose whom no one believes were copied from one another.

 

DeadLegato - Were people saying the old hands were like Kid Delf Hands, or were they saying the new ones were?

These are the old hands, and they do look very similar to the Kid Delf hands:

 

Letter from the lawyer basically covering:

1. Declaration that Dollzone is not infringing on any patents.

2. Various new DZ doll parts have already been patented, so take note that you are not to make use of the patented parts without prior permission from DZ.

3. The lawyer has been engaged to deal with the issue of slanderous accusations levied on DZ, which is considered unfair practice as it adversely affects the earnings of the company. The accusing party could have to pay for the losses incurred due to the statements, including costs incurred due to processes to determine that the dolls are not copies.

They are also asking that whoever made these comments withdraw the comments, stop maligning DZ and apologise for their behaviour, so that the case can be dropped.

...

Yep, briefly summarised. Chinese is my mother tongue, but I'm not fantastic at it, especially with all the legal terms, but that's basically the content of those letters on the DZ website.

If they're confident enough to sue for slander... well, I dunno. *shrug* An intelligent businessperson would not take such risks for a case that *will* fall, so perhaps they are confident?

leXis

 

I was the one saying that; But I've been seeing new DZ dolls pop up wearing those hands too.

And on the front of dollzone owners. Hey, they ARE people, guys. At the time, they probably didn't know if DZ was up to anything. They just saw a mold they loved and bought it. So while I do believe DZ is in the wrong; I don't think the owners are. So if DZ is exposed, I hope that the company is shut down; or, at least, goes to selling ONLY original heads. Other companies have, such as Elysium and RealMissingLink. It's a shame DZ didn't do that in the first place.

So while I hope DZ is taken and brought to justice, I also hope that people don't bully DZ owners. They're doll enthusiasts just like we are. And furthermore, they're real people. However, on the same page, It'd also be nice for DZ owners to not feel like they're being attacked by everyone. Many of us just want to help, and have nothing against you.

 

That's pretty rich, claiming patent and telling others to back off, considering what they have done.

If they want to sue for slander, then they're going to have to start chasing individual DoA forum members. Volks very specifically never said publically who it is that they are going after legally. The only people who've said it's DZ are people on this forum or in their ljs or blogs.

Do they want to come after me for slander or libel? They're more than welcome to try. I'll be here waiting, but I won't hold my breath. :P

Edit: And for the record, I don't have anything against DZ owners who support the original sculpts or who didn't know better. Just the company.

 

The feeling I get is that they have gotten into contact with the accusers.

 

I weould say the DZ letter is a rebuttle of the Volks letter. Yes- Volks were very vague in that letter... but if they are planning to sue it would make sense that they have been in touch with DZ by now over it.

And don;t worry Cassiel- I doubt they're going to go after forum members just yet! ;P

 

*sigh* The heads, it seems, are at the very least original. And unique. Unlike some I have seen around. If there is any problem with the bodies, well, I don't mind getting one from another company.